U S Naval issue cutlass

[capnwilliam]

Does anyone have, or have ye encountered in yer piratical travels, an official-issue US Navy cutlass?

I understand that they were still being carried aboard USN vessels until about 1940.

Capt. William

[Dorian Lasseter]

Here be a few links to some...

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/the-forge/usnacu1.html

http://www.antiquesofthesea.com/1336sword.html

http://www.militarysabers.com/navy-nco-cutlass.html

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/1861ncut.htm

[the Royaliste]

I have two model 1860's, one with the knuckle bowl, one without. Still being made new, but of lower quality than older ones. Expect to pay between 700.00 and 1000.00 for an old one in decent shape with scabbard.

[El Pirata]

Great links

[capnwilliam]

Great links indeed, Dorian!

I hadn't realized that the 1917-model cutlass replaced one that had been official issue since 1860! (Shades of the 1911 .45 auto pistol!)

Nor that the US Navy still has an official dress cutlass for Chiefs!

Does anyone know whether 'twas true that the 1917's were still official-issue as of 1940?

Capt. William

[Deacon Frye]

Great links indeed, Dorian!

I hadn't realized that the 1917-model cutlass replaced one that had been official issue since 1860! (Shades of the 1911 .45 auto pistol!)

Nor that the US Navy still has an official dress cutlass for Chiefs!

Does anyone know whether 'twas true that the 1917's were still official-issue as of 1940?

Capt. William

Here's another brief, but insightful article on the 1917 that touches on your question, Capt. William:

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector...or/cutlass.html

[capnwilliam]

That was indeed a most interesting short article, Deacon! So really, we could say that there's a 1941 version (cutout handguard) as well as the 1917 (cup handguard).

I like BOARDERS AWAY, but it covers the 1620's - 1820's period. The author here gave a misleading indication that it might answer questions about these later period cutlasses.

Capt. William

[Deacon Frye]

That was indeed a most interesting short article, Deacon! So really, we could say that there's a 1941 version (cutout handguard) as well as the 1917 (cup handguard).

I like BOARDERS AWAY, but it covers the 1620's - 1820's period. The author here gave a misleading indication that it might answer questions about these later period cutlasses.

Capt. William

Yeah, I'm not sure why he put that in there.

BTW, as of a couple of years ago, it was possible to obtain original Dutch Klewangs for $200-300 US.

[John Maddox Roberts]

When I was a teenager in Richardson Texas in the early 60s, there was a fabulous establishment in Dallas across the street from the SMU campus called Jackson Arms - strictly an antique arms shop. I went in there one day and there was a whole rack of 1860 cutlasses they'd bought, a dozen of them at least. I lusted for one, but couldn't pony up the big money - a whole $25. Next to them were as many French cutlasses of the same vintage, at the same price. Ah, the poverty of youth.

[capnwilliam]

Aye; frustrating to realize that we couldn't come by the bargain prices of yesteryear, anymore than we can now come by the inflated prices of today!

Capt William

[Capt. Morgan]

I don't have a picture of one, but the US Marine Corps officers carry a cool sword which was presented to them in the early 1800s after they stormed the hideout of the Barbary Pirates in the Mediteranean Sea... there's a good modern link with the past for you!

[capnwilliam]

Aye, Capt. Morgan, the Mameluke hilt pattern. Personally, fer real fightin' I'd prefer somethin' that protects me hand!

John, I was in James Cohen's store just a couple days ago - a great antique weapons and coin store on Royal Street here in New Orleans - and they had a couple of 1860 US Naval cutlasses for sale; one for $1,200, the other for $1,500!

Capt. William

[John Maddox Roberts]

In Richard McKenna's novel "The Sand Pebbles" he mentions cutlasses being distributed to shore parties during hostilities. This was in the Yangtse River Patrol in 1925. McKenna was there just a few years after the events he described, so maybe as late as '25 American Navy men were packing cutlasses ashore.

Cap'n William: On the other hand, I bought my Randall #1 for all of $28.00. In mint condition (mine has been hard-used these 38 years) it would cost right alongside those cutlasses.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Capnwilliam:

I forgot to mention: back in '72 I was in New Orleans and wandered into an antique shop on Royal near the Monteleone Hotel. I walked out toting a Royal Navy boarding pike. Cost me $25.00! I still have it.

['Salem Bob']

I like BOARDERS AWAY, but it covers the 1620's - 1820's period. The author here gave a misleading indication that it might answer questions about these later period cutlasses. 

Capt. William

Capn William,

Check volume I again, it does cover the M1860 cutlass (derived from the French M 1833, and ultimately the Model 1801 cutlass), and it covers the M1917/41, including describing what may have been the last action with a US soldier (combat Engineer NCO) killing a Chineese soldier with one during the Korean war.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Just read an article about the Yangtse River Patrol (in Shotgun News, of all places.) It states that the Patrol was apparently the last organization in the U.S. Navy to be issued cutlasses. They had both the 1917 and 1860 pattern, (more of the 60s) and they show up on ship's inventories right up through the 1930s. So we may have here the last U.S. sailors who packed cutlasses.

[capnwilliam]

John, that antique shop on Royal Street would have been Cohen's. Good thing you shopped early and avoided the price increase!

Salem Bob, I will indeed go back and check my Boarders Away. Interesting about that Korean War incident. That may indeed be the last documented incident of U.S. cutlass combat.

Capt. William

['Salem Bob']

Hi John,

I think you have the right of it regarding official USN distribution . It was certainly the last hurrah for the M 1860 other than as a decorative fan in an Admirals cabin - the thing is that photos exist that show Marine NCO's, and occassional Army personel in the Pacific war with a M1917/40 strapped on. Gilkerson tried to research to see if they actually saw any use (other than being lugged around, or as a machette), but was unable to find further dertails - he did come across the alleged use by the Engineer NCO in Korea.

Apparently the Army issued them as dress sidearms for NCO's in Engineer units up into the '60's (which explains the Korea incident), and ditto for ROTC.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Capnwilliam:

Seems to me the store was called Waldhorn's. It was huge and mainly furniture oriented, but there was a room full of weapons and armor on one side. They'd just bought a lot of stuff at a Tower of London auction, including the pikes and a rack of Indian cavalry service talwars in khaki scabbards. I only had the $25 to spend and chose the pike. Glad I did now. The Monteleone had a big grandfather clock from Waldhorn's in their lobby, I recall. Spent many an evening tippling in their Carrousel Bar.