Davy Jones Locker - POTC

[Lady Alyx]

So is it Will Turner's Locker now?

Hmmmm maybe the Kraken will have given birth before it was killed and perhaps 'Baby Kraken' will come back..lol.

Thoughts, speculations...ideas?

[Tartan Jack]

I vote Will Turner takes up the NAME Davy Jones, much like Princess Bride and the "Dread Pirate Roberts" (itself a reference to the 3 year career of Black Bart Roberts).

[Lady Alyx]

Now there's an idea. I always like that concept from the Princess Bride....Dread Pirate Roberts...lol

[LadyBarbossa]

I don't know, shipmates...

I prefer Davy Jones, either with or without th' tenticles. Many folks I know are mourning the demise of Jones.

Now, be there be a Saint William, Protector of Sailors?

~Lady B

[Christine]

Well, as I mentioned before it reminds me of The Santa Clause movie. Knock Santa off the roof, which kills him and makes the person who did that the next Santa. The only way to free yourself from that job is for someone else to kill you. Hmmmm.....and both movies are by Disney....

[Caraccioli]

Christine brings up an interesting point - for Will to take command of the ship, Jones has to be dead according to the curse. So we know Jones died. (This isn't to say they can't bring him back, as Barbossa and Jack's re-appearance in the world of the living will attest.) Second, we know Will is still in command of the ship 10 years later. So he is still apparently charged with ferrying the dead to the locker during those 10 years. (What happens after that is open to your interpretation apparently. Iron Bess says the writers told her directly that Will stays on and other sources say otherwise.)

So the writers are going to have to step nimbly around what we know to bring him back as the keeper of the crypt (so to speak). Unless they just want to set things ahead 10 years or back before AWE. (God, but this sounds like the messy, overly-complicated, nibbling around the edges of the first film, Back to the Future approach to sequels...yet again...)

Something else to keep in mind. Iron Bess already told us that the ship pre-dates Jones. This begs the question...what was it called before it was called Davy Jones Locker in the fantasy world of POTC? Why must it be called Anyone's Locker at all? (Actually, historians don't even know the real basis for this question! It first appeared in print in The Peregrine Pickle by Tobias Smollet in 1751, but no one has yet tracked down the origin of the term. I know of at least 4 different (reasonable) explanations (and several other, patently absurd explanations - one includes Atlantis!), none of which have been proven. But I digress...)

My point is that being attached to the name seems sort of pointless. You still hear the term Davy Jones Locker (real life - not fantasy) which is most likely based at least partially on a person's name in history who is long since dead. We still call scads of buildings and universities by the person's name given to them, although the honoree is long since gone. So what? It's named in honor of some august person or the person who made the place famous. Kind of like Lou Gerhig's diesease.

[The Doctor]

It would make sense that Will pick up the mantle of Davy Jones. Less paperwork and no PR campaigns.

Figures that Turner would get his heart cut out in order to get a charisma transplant.

["Bloody" Bill Marley]

How about this, the locker doesn't belong to the ferryman but rather Davy Jones himself? In his anger and spite he creates this area of hell to deal out his own brand of cruel revenge for those on whom he displaces his rage towards calypso. So instead of the locker shifting into Will's hands who actually has no need of it, Davy Jones himself gets sent to the locker? So all that need be done to bring him back is a reference to a return trip to the locker to rescue him. He can even have a visit from Calypso once in a while, if they can ever bury the hatchet.

[Caraccioli]

Except Calypso turned into an army of stone crabs. It's hard to love an army of stone crabs, methinks. (Although, admittedly, I haven't tried.)

I don't remember it clearly, but I had the impression that she is the physical embodiment of one (or more) heathen god(s). The first Brethren's Court what met long ago turned the heathen god(s) into Calypso as punishment or to trap it/them or something like that, didn't they? Not a very stable sort of lover, I wouldn't suppose...

[LadyBarbossa]

That's not ths only time Calypso has been in human form. But, she is a part of the sea after all. And Goddess, demi-Goddess, Immortals, etc... they have their own forms. Who's to say she's all crabs? Tis her symbol, not her form. She's in everything. Hence why Jones fell in love.

Tis an interesting concept, Christine. Possible.

Besides, Jones was human and not all tenticlely. From the sounds of it, he became that way AFTER the betrayal.

He was a mighty sharp lookin' fellow when in human form!

Stories abound of the Flying Dutchman and it's Captain.

The Locker will also be Davy Jones' Locker. True for all we know Jones could have been sent to the Locker for all eternity. Or, Calypso could have melded him with her and he could have became a part of the Sea.

To this Lady, the Sea will always be Davy Jones. Turner is just some soul bound to service until his demise.

~Lady B

[Black Syren]

Speaking of Will Im not too sure I would trust my heart in Lizzie's hands...She seems to like kissing too much.. Ok Way too much...

And I miss Norrington..I really liked his charry..

[Lady Alyx]

You know there is a point there that Will does not need the locker, nor is he really associated with the locker. Yes perhaps the locker is part of Davy Jones' hell.

Davy Jones Locker is probably an arena all to itself apart from the Flying Dutchman...but here is the problem...the Flying Dutchman I believe is associated with Davy Jones....if I remember the research I did a few months back. Correct me if I am wrong on that point.

Also I agree with the fact that Calypso is not just crabs...she probably has many forms of the sea.

Charisma upgrade...cracking up :angry:

[The Doctor]

As much as I try to stay away from Wikipedia, they have a pretty good write up on the subject of the Flying Dutchman - Linky

Personally, I've referred to Will Turner as the Dread Pirate Skippy for a couple years now...

[Caraccioli]

Yeah...the Dutchman and Davy Jones are only linked in Disney's world. As I said, the genuine origin of the term "Davy Jones Locker" is unknown for those of you interested in history.

Actually, I hadn't thought to use Wiki to search the term. Very interesting! They have a piece of data I was not aware of when I first started looking into this a few years ago on another pirate forum.

"Daniel Defoe mentions the phrase in his 1726 book The Four Years Voyages of Capt. George Roberts: "Heaving the rest into David Jones' locker..." The phrase appears not to have yet taken on the later connotations of misfortune."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Jones_Locker

As for the pile of stone crabs comment, that was sort of euphemistic...I was suggesting that a human loving a deity would be a problem. Then again, who knows? Maybe Jones could hook up with Calypso and have a child - played by Kevin Sorbo. And then she could bite off Jones' head. (You know how those wacky heathen gods are... )

[HildeKitten]

Except Calypso turned into an army of stone crabs. It's hard to love an army of stone crabs, methinks. (Although, admittedly, I haven't tried.)

I don't remember it clearly, but I had the impression that she is the physical embodiment of one (or more) heathen god(s). The first Brethren's Court what met long ago turned the heathen god(s) into Calypso as punishment or to trap it/them or something like that, didn't they? Not a very stable sort of lover, I wouldn't suppose...

Calypso is the heathen Goddess of the Sea.

She could pretty much shapeshift to _any_ shape right up to the moment the Pirate Court bound her into the shape of Tia Dalma. She maintained a small amount of her power, but shapeshifting wasn't a power she kept.

She actually said that very clearly to Davey Jones when she was locked up. How hard it was for her to be bound to just one shape.

When she was released, she regained all her powers, including that to shift in whatever form she wishes.

[Patrick Hand]

Dang.... now I wish I had never seen AWE....

"Aaaaargh I be sendin' ye ter Will Turners Locker" ...... just don't sound right....

An' Calipso has a bad case O' crabs.......

An' REAL Pyrates DON'T wear eyeshadow........

Stupid Disney..... messed everything up....................

[LadyBarbossa]

Correct me if I am wrong, too... Anyone recall well the old stories of Calypso? Not only told by Shakespeare but also of the Ancient stories? How's about Oedepus(? I know I mutilated that name)... where she tricked him to stay with her for years upon an island, until Poseidon forced Calypso to release him so he could return home and to his Wife. Sometime after that, at least a century I believe, Calypso was allowed to return to the sea. I believe Poseidon banished her to that island for a time.

Perhaps Calypso is indeed too much of a loose cannon. And poor Jones was a man who couldn't resist. One of the few who unfortunately crossed paths with her.

I think Calypso is more a demi-Goddess who is as Cheval stated.. "Moody". The only one she MUST listen to is Poseidon.

But, perhaps Jones is lucky. He could have gotten involved with someone worse! Calypso is perhaps the most merciful of all the mythical beings and creatures.

~Lady B

[HildeKitten]

Stupid Disney..... messed everything up....................

Disney is entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.

They probably couldn't do historically accurate if it was spelled out to them in really small words.

[Caraccioli]

Historically accurate isn't their goal, except inasmuch as it is the style of the times. (For another style of the times in:re pirates, check out The Crimson Pirate ) However, grubby is in now. They go on and on in that "Marking of..." book about how realistic they tried to be with the clothing. Something about using old fabrics which are worth a lot of money to make Elizabeth's dresses and so forth. Seems like a waste of a good antique cloth to me, but...

Calypso is actually a real myth? I didn't know that. (I can't abide Shakespeare in any measure. We had to read Macbeth in college. Wretched stuff to my ears.) I'll have to see if Calypso's in my book on superstitions of the sea.

[SilasTalbot]

Correct me if I am wrong, too... Anyone recall well the old stories of Calypso? Not only told by Shakespeare but also of the Ancient stories? How's about Oedepus...

~Lady B

I'm not going to classify myself as an "expert" on Shakespeare...but having done a dozen or so of the plays professionally and currently writing a thesis on Elizabethan-era performance practice...I have to say I'm unaware of any reference to Calypso in Shakespeare.

In Homer, it was Odysseus who was trapped on an island with Calypso. Oedipus was involved in a whole different set of pleasant events...

Hope that helps a bit.

[Iron Bess]

They go on and on in that "Marking of..." book about how realistic they tried to be with the clothing. Something about using old fabrics which are worth a lot of money to make Elizabeth's dresses and so forth. Seems like a waste of a good antique cloth to me, but...

The majority of cloth was anything but antique.

Fact is, they put it all into a large cement mixer with a hoard of brinks and let it tumble for.... I forget how long.

When it was done they had lovely distressed fabric and clothes.

Ahh, the modern age.

[Caraccioli]

They were talking about Elizabeth's dresses. Something about a lovely antique tablecloth or bedcover from the...17th?...18th?... century that was made into a dress for her along with some other stuff I don't recall.

Tip of the hat to SilasTalbot. No offense intended to those who enjoy the bard. He's just not my cup of tea. {Kind of like literary poetry. You could ship all the poetry in the world to Hades and I wouldn't miss it.)

Ok, back to wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_%28mythology%29

"In Greek mythology Calypso was a naiad, daughter of Atlas who lived on the island of Malta. Her name has also been listed among the list of the Nereids, which would make her a daughter of Nereus. She delayed Odysseus on her island (Ogygia, which is thought to be modern day Gozo) for seven years. While he was there, post-Homeric sources add, she bore him a child named Nausinous. Athena asked Zeus to spare Odysseus of his torment on the island, as he wanted to go to his homeland. Zeus sent Hermes, the messenger of the Gods, to tell Calypso to release Odysseus. As Zeus was the Lord of the Gods, she was unable to refuse him, although she wished to. Odysseus eventually returned to his homeland of Ithaca, to be with his beloved wife Penelope who waited for him at home, even though Calypso had promised him immortality if he stayed. Some legends say Calypso died as a result of her grief.

VARIANT

Calypso also refers to an Oceanid, daughter of Oceanus and Tethys."

Nausinous! Imagine what the poor kid had to put up with in grade school!

[SilasTalbot]

Tip of the hat to SilasTalbot. No offense intended to those who enjoy the bard. He's just not my cup of tea.

No offense taken, sir. We all have our own cups of tea (or coffee, in my case).

Given that shipwrecks are integral to the plots of "Twelfth Night" and "The Tempest" it's kind of surprising that we don't get some mention of Calypso.

Hey, at least we got pirates in "Hamlet"...even if they're only mentioned in a letter.

[HildeKitten]

The majority of cloth was anything but antique.

Fact is, they put it all into a large cement mixer with a hoard of brinks and let it tumble for.... I forget how long.

When it was done they had lovely distressed fabric and clothes.

Ahh, the modern age.

I remember that, it's on the bonus DVD in the special edition of Curse of the Black Pearl.

They were mumbling on about having an expert on board to make sure everything was as historically accurate on that same DVD too though, and let's face it, while the costumes are pretty, they're not accurate.

Well some are, but most aren't.

[Iron Bess]

let's face it, while the costumes are pretty, they're not accurate.

Well some are, but most aren't.

Ah yes but they DO look old!