Chickens onboard

[Capt. Sterling]

Has anyone ever come across any sort of information, whether written or some sort of picture, showing cages/containers for chickens during the GAoP time frame? Unfortunately we cannot have the real things running free around camp.... thanks for any help.

[Rumba Rue]

stuffed chickens! hey local taxidermy....

[Capt. Sterling]

Now that would be too easy...kind of like buying brown eggs at the market instead of having fresh ones cooked over the camp fire for breakfast... geeze I think I need some lunch.

[JoshuaRed]

I'm pretty sure I've got a period account somewhere of a passenger on a ship from Boston to England, and he mentions chicken coops or pens. If I can ever find it I'll post it.

[Capt. Sterling]

Thank you, much obliged.

[The Doctor]

Chicken coops were common, along with pig and goat pens.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Chickens aboard ship go back as far as Roman times, when they were kept on naval ships for purposes of divination. During the Punic Wars an admiral named Claudius wanted to give battle but the priests said that the sacred chickens wouldn't eat. He said "Then let them drink!" and threw the coops overboard. He won the battle but his fleet was destroyed by a storm soon after. Even an atheist shouldn't insult the sea gods, at least not until he's safely back on shore.

[Mission]

I thought I'd throw some chicken references in here because I stumbled across this topic while looking for something else. There's a reference to pens shipboard from Pierre Labat's wonderful account. (Anyone who hasn't yet read The Memoirs of Pére Labat 1693-1705 really should make time for it. It is probably one of the richest accounts in detail that I have yet read. You'll most likely find a copy through your local library.)

“[in Cadiz] The fishermen and other people who always come alongside a ship when she arrives in port did not fail

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on this occasion to offer us goods for sale, for the Spaniards suppose that any vessel coming from a long voyage must be short of everything. These men were therefore surprised when they saw our pens of full of chickens, pigs, sheep and goats that there was sufficient live stock on board for a return voyage to America. It is quite true that every ship is not always so well provisioned as we were, but M. Maureller, his niece and myself brought so many provisions and animals, etc., on board that we were obliged to send a quantity of poultry ashore before we sailed as there was no room for them, and it was not surprising that we had so many left when we arrived, although we frequently entertained the officers and passengers of the other ships on board our vessel during this voyage. Hence we only bought their peaches, apples and pears, and more especially their very fine grapes, of which our Demoiselle Creole at such an amount in spite of all her uncle told her, he was very frightened that she would be ill.” (Labat, p. 262)

“Besides the furniture in their canoes, the Caribs also bring parrots, iguanas, chickens, pigs, pineapples, bananas and crabs to trade with us [in Martinique].” (Labat, p. 78)

[Bos'n Cross]

and why cant we bring chickens to events?

[Capt. Sterling]

oh just wonder what some folks would say about crossing the state line with chickens...

[jendobyns]

Has anyone ever come across any sort of information, whether written or some sort of picture, showing cages/containers for chickens during the GAoP time frame? Unfortunately we cannot have the real things running free around camp.... thanks for any help.

I'll see if I can find some pictures of the chicken "baskets" that were located during a previous discussion on another list. And while it's a later period portrayal, there was a great pic of a woman with a horse loaded for market with one or two of these packed onto it in a Colonial Williamsburg calendar pic, at least a decade ago. It's a basket type that shows up in various forms in earlier art work as well.

Jen

[jendobyns]

Has anyone ever come across any sort of information, whether written or some sort of picture, showing cages/containers for chickens during the GAoP time frame? Unfortunately we cannot have the real things running free around camp.... thanks for any help.

OK, earlier pics and later pics I can find, from different countries. While not an exact example of the GAoP, the basic concept seems to be consistent across location and time. Big, roomy, open work baskets with a lid or door of some kind.

http://www.allartclassic.com/pictures_zoom.php?p_number=150&p=&number=AEP006

Ah, not the packed horse image from CW, but another: http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Winter09/images/janice.jpg

There is at least one other image I've seen which seems to be somewhere between the two, but I can't look any further right now.

While I can't find an image of her work, but there is one basket weaver who has made these. It might be worth getting in touch to see what research she has done. Let me know if you're interested and I can see if I can find her contact info.

Jen

[Mission]

Speaking purely from a logistics POV (and without any resources to back me) it would seem to me that they would want to use cages that would pack together well. Thus, round cages make less sense than four-sided ones. This doesn't mean that convention mightn't overrule logic, but it's just the way it would seem to me.

I recall reading of a problem where the animal cages went overboard during a storm. Round ones would roll, making it more likely they'd go overboard. Let me see...

Hey! More proof for chickens in coops! (Didn't think to look for the word 'hen'.)

"[sept 17, 1676] About 4 in the morning the seas grow far more outrageous, and break clearly over our quarter-deck; drive our hen-coops overboard; and washed one of our seamen clean off the crotchet-yard. A second sea came and threw down all our booms; brake both pinnace and longboat on the decks. A third came, and flung our anchor off the ship side, flung the bell out of his place, brake off the carving, and pulled two planks asunder in the midst of the ship, between decks, and just against the pump. Our forecastles was broke all down long before. Now the men are all disheartened, and all expect nothing but the loss of ship and life." (Henry Teonge, The Diary of Henry Teonge, Chaplain on Board H.M.’s Ships Assistance, Bristol, and Royal Oak, 1675-1679, p. 189-90)

By the way, The Diary of Henry Teonge is another book I highly recommend for interesting details.

Looking for the word 'hen' leads to...

“The Fire [in Acapulco] went so far, that it got into our Hen-roost, and burnt near 300 so that we lost he Refreshment of our Voyage. [Footnote 2: The number of hens is not excessive: Benavente (358) remarks that 1,000 hens for 40 friars on the 90-day voyage to Manila ‘are not many.’]” (Domingo Navarrete, The Travels and Controversies of Friar Domingo Navarrete 1618-1686, p. 40)

And a reference to something called "hen-cubs"...

“In taking a view of our vessel, we found that the violence of the weather had forced many sorts of seabirds on board of our vessel, some of which were by force of the wind blown into and under our hen-cubs and many remained alive. Our hogs and sheep were washed away and swam on shore, except one of the hogs which remained in the vessel.” (Dickinson, , Jonathan Dickison's Journal or God's Protecting Providence (a journal of events on the Florida coast dated from 1696/7), p. 5)

I'm going to double-check that and make sure I didn't misspell 'cube' when fat-fingering that in. That would be most telling.

Nothing in these next about what they were kept in, but I imagine the carpenter would have built something. Maybe you should ask Dutch what he would put them in.

“We finding our goods not to be a commodity there [Madeiras], we sailed to Santa Cruz in Barbary, where we traded with the Moors, a country very plenty of provisions – fish in abundance, I think for one piece of eight I bought above twenty hens and cocks and barley to feed them with.” (Edward Coxere, Adventures by Sea of Edward Coxere, p. 107)

“[1699] And many times we could not carry enough sail, driving to and fro and doing much damage and loss in our fresh provisions, having ‘drownded’ a hundred fowls, hens, cocks, turkeys and geese, and several pigs and hogs, and some sheep, and bruising much the live bullocks we had aboard, spoiling their flesh very much.” (Barlow, Barlow’s Journal of his Life at Sea in King’s Ships, East and West Indiamen & Other Merchantman From 1659 to 1703, p. 508)

[Commodore Swab]

Well for PiP you wouldn't have to bring any, Im sure some could be caught in the surrounding streets . . .

[Dutchman]

we haven't been stopped at the border yet so why worry about some darned yard birds.

I have seen drawings of both baskets and the square coops. No idea aboard ship though. I think i know where one or two square cages might be- want me to go looking.

[Littleneckhalfshell]

if you do find proper period correct chicken cages, you may well want to put proper period chickens into the cages ;-)

I would suggest the Dominique breed, it is considered America's oldest breed of chicken. Plus they are self sufficient to some degree, good foragers and a dual purpose chicken, eggs & meat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_%28chicken%29

[Slopmaker Cripps]

Check out Valentine & Sons seed company....Dave Valentine who runs the shop has recreated appropriate 18thC Dunghill fowls through re-breeding and just had his 2nd generation hatch a couple weeks ago.

Cheers,

Adam C.

[Bos'n Cross]

indeed i am after a few single comb dominiques from Mr.Valantine myself....(though their wont be any available till next year *cries).........i know of a few people on the frontier folk boards who take chickens to events with them...usually not much trouble they say........

[Capt. Sterling]

The act of bringing chickens to an event isn't a problem as far as I am concerned after bringing 20 horses or more to events in the past...what I want to know is what are the laws(possible) laws about transporting "farm animals" across state lines, especially chickens that can carry disease... what paperwork would you need for example, especially from a vet? But seems to be a moot point here as from the replies, it seems no one here knows...

[Mission]

The answer is...replica chickens.

[Capt. Sterling]

Hmmm methinks the surgeon has been imbibing too much of that laudanum I asked about in the other thread...

[Capt. Sterling]

rather hard on the teeth for eating, what?

[Capt. Sterling]

bugger one does need special papers and permission to bring them into another state...hmmm horses are easier...

[jendobyns]

So I guess chicken breeders shipping chicks handle all that when you order? Too bad you can't have rent-a-chicken like you can with horses from local stables. Where are you looking to transport these birds anyway?

bugger one does need special papers and permission to bring them into another state...hmmm horses are easier...

[Mission]

C'mon, lookit how realistic they are...no mess, no government forms...plus you can say you own a robot.