Learning cannon and gunnery

[Scupper]

Alas No Mr hawkyns i can't attend. Couldn't get day off. But i'll email you my work number and can meet you for lunch. Give me a call and i'll see you there.

Scupper

[Longarm]

Apparently there seems to be plenty of different opinions on cannons and gunnery out there. Is there a place or an organization out there where someone, not unlike myself, can go to be sure they are getting the proper training in useing a cannon?

Secondly with all these fool terrorist running around what kind of license does one need to purchase and store enough gunpowder to operate a cannon. < And yes I know that pirates could quailify as terrorist, just in case there is some smart-aleck out there who may think I need reminding.>

[Black Deacon]

Apparently there seems to be plenty of different opinions on cannons and gunnery out there. Is there a place or an organization out there where someone, not unlike myself, can go to be sure they are getting the proper training in useing a cannon?

Secondly with all these fool terrorist running around what kind of license does one need to purchase and store enough gunpowder to operate a cannon. < And yes I know that pirates could quailify as terrorist, just in case there is some smart-aleck out there who may think I need reminding.>

Your best bet is to read all you can from the old manuals. Yes you may have to find an old book and not just pull it up on the net. Since I grew up around them allot of it comes as a second nature. But check out some of the re-enactors. Civil War, Mountain man, etc. Start small with a signal cannon and work your way up. Try muskets first. Even Brown Besses, Charliveele's, will give you a good working knowledge of use BP. Then head for the bigger stuff.

[Hawkyns]

Apparently there seems to be plenty of different opinions on cannons and gunnery out there. Is there a place or an organization out there where someone, not unlike myself, can go to be sure they are getting the proper training in useing a cannon?

Secondly with all these fool terrorist running around what kind of license does one need to purchase and store enough gunpowder to operate a cannon. < And yes I know that pirates could quailify as terrorist, just in case there is some smart-aleck out there who may think I need reminding.>

Here is a link to the closest thing there is to a 'national standard'.

http://www2.control.com/~emoore/marty.html

Every group has a few differences, but they are mostly minor. We, for instance use wads on blanks and do not use crooked rammers. Some groups use plastic baggies inside their aluminum cartridges, we do not.

Also, different sites have specific regulations. National Park Service regs are so cumbersome that few groups will actually fire on NPS sites.

Powder regs vary depending on where you live. No federal licence is needed to buy less than 25 pounds. Some states limit you to 5 pounds. Some require ID, some don't. I generally buy mine in PA, where there is no state limit or ID required. Not that that's a problem, it just happens that Dixon's Gun Shop is one of the best BP gunshops in the country and is just outside Allentown. Cannon powder, or F grade BP are frequently difficult to get, not all stores stock them due to the low demand.

State regs vary concerning actual firing of cannon, check where you live. New Jersey has some strange regs, and Mass. requires that you have a licence issued by the Fire Department. Texas used to have some restrictions, but I don't know if that still applies.

You don't say whether you have any BP experience at all. If not, i say Deacon is right, start with a musket, unless you can join an established crew and get training there. Buying a cannon without any BP knowledge or experience is not generally a good idea.

Hawkyns

[Longarm]

Thanks to you both, Deacan and Hawkins, Your advice is most helpful. I don't have any real BP experience exept for whatever I can pick up at any renactments that include cannon.

Being in S.C. I'll more than likely have to get intouch with one of the Civil War groups. This really isn't my favorite time of study but there are more groups here. The best one I've talked with so far renact the German mercinaries who manned the cannon for some of the southern regements. They are very good, very authentic when it comes down presenting themselves. All orders and commands are given in german, as well as the ranks of it's men. They are the group who fired the salutes for the first two crews of the Hunnley when they were reburied. They will also be the ones to attend the last crew when it comes time to lay them to rest. In fact their horses who pull the cannon came from Arlington Cemetary in Va. So I guess if I plan on learning properly in a precise and proffessional manner they'ld be my best bet. Unless one or both of you decide to move yer home port to Charleston so not only will I learn proper gunnery but, proper seamanship and piracy as well?

[capnwilliam]

Nay, Longarm; I want Deacon and Hawkyns to move to New Orleans!

You're probably right about an ACW reenactment group being yer best bet. Here in New Orleans we have the Washington Artillery. I know a few of them, and toyed with the idea of joining them - like you, I'm interested in that period but it's not a primary interest - but the problem is that it would cost so much to outfit myself that I wouldn't have anything left over for nautical!

We're in the process of hooking up with the Baratarians (War of 1812) and I hope to be able to learn a lot about gunnery from them.

Mate Hawkyns, you recommend old manuals; any that you especially recommend?

Capt. William

[Hawkyns]

Well, the classic is 'The Sea Gunner" by John Seller, published 1691.

It's hard to find and it ain't cheap, but here is a link to a couple I found:

http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?q...tches=2&qsort=r

After that, there's 'The Gunner's Glasse' William Eldred, 1646

and "the Art of Gunnery" John Smith 1643

Both of these have been reprinted by Stuart Press and are available through Sykes Sutlering www.sykesutler.com

The other standard that's relatively available is 'A Treatise of Artillery' John Muller 1780 reprinted by Museum Restoration Service in 1977. Alibris or Amazon should be able to find this one.

These are on the earlier side, but that's what I do, artillery 1470 to 1770.

There are later manuals, from Reve War period, lots of them. I've got a couple from 1740'a and some Elizabethan.

Also, check out 'The Pirotechnia of Vannoccio Biringuccio' published in 1540. General text on metallurgy and casting techniques, but it also has a few chapters on fireworks, Greek Fire, and how to pack a fire ship. Currently available in cheap reprint from Dover.

Hawkyns

[Longarm]

Many thanks Master Hawkyns. The more I follow the threads here at Captain Twill the longer my wish list gets. My good wife wont be liking living in a pirate museum but if I get my way she just might hve to.

[capnwilliam]

Thank ye fer the list, Capt. Hawkyns!

Longarm, tell yer wife that I can think of a lot worse places to live than in a pirate museum!

Capt. William

[Longarm]

I know this is an old thread by now but, I just wanted to add something. Back in 1996 when I was living in Upper Marlboro, Md, I attended What at the time was a reinative semminar called "The School Of The Muskteer". It was put on by a group (I forget the name now) who reinact the English Civil War. They had pike drills, and matchlock drills, and cannon drills. There was other stuff like cooking and sewing and such but who pays attention to that when you have cannon and musketts to play with. Anyway I picked up two useful Instruction guides on gunnery that I just recently found buried as usual under piles of other stuff I find of interest.

The first is just a simple guide explaining what the cannon crew were doing and the names given to the crew members and their duties. It also names the parts of the cannon and the instruments being used as well as going thru the drill for firing the gun. It's got a great name, it's called "Cannon Drill 101, or How do I Make This Thing Go Bang Without Blowing Myself Up In The Process?". This was written by Kent Aist and Dexter Guptill. It is just a five page document about what was going on and they stressed very highly that it is not to be considered the end all beat all on gunnery! Safety was stressed thruout all the demonstrations. These guys took what they do very seriously.

The second pamphlet is called "The Gunners Instruction" "Concerning that Knowledge which should be Familiar to all those who would serve His Majesty in the Trayne of Artillery" by Stephan Barratt, a gunner in His Majesties Service. The first part reads as though it where written during the time of the English Civil War, and i believe it was. (rember my memory is not the most reliable at times) The secon part are rules compliled by the "Muzzleloading Artilleryman" magazine. It read very much like the rules laid down on the web site Captain Hawkyns gave.

In both pamphlets safety is very highly stressed and the joining of an experienced gun grew is the only real way to learn the art of gunnery. I guess the real problem is, how and where does one find an experienced gun grew who know and follow the saftey guidlines? It's to easy to cut cornners for the sake of speed and or showmanship or worse yet down right stupidity. I guess the best way to judge a crew is to know as much about safety as one can and if what their doing does not look or feel safe chances are their not the crew for you.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye Longarm,

I know all three o' th' Ladds ye mentioned there, know them reasonably well..... As a point o' fact, one o' them happens ta be on this list, tha' I know for sure.... He was the Ensign o' Blackwells regiment, ECW...

And I have learned a great deal about the Art of Gunnery from these Gentlemen, they have me deapest respect...

I also agree that any amount of 'corner cutting' is a bad thing, as a point o' fact, there's more show if you do all th' proper steps...

I believe it was pointed out by Master Hawkyns;

"A cannon in knowledgeable hands is a fine weapon, a cannon in ignorant hands is a dangerous pipe bomb..." 'r somethin' ta tha' effect...

[Longarm]

Your a lucky man Master Lasseter to know such men. Though it's been awhile since I met them, I'm still impressed with their knowledge and their sincere desire to share it. They never once talked down to anyone or treated any question no matter how obvious as being stupid or unjustified. Every question was answered with straight forward and informative replies. Not many people can or are able to do this. You are most lucky indeed.

[Hawkyns]

The second pamphlet is called "The Gunners Instruction" "Concerning that Knowledge which should be Familiar to all those who would serve His Majesty in the Trayne of Artillery" by Stephan Barratt, a gunner in His Majesties Service. The first part reads as though it where written during the time of the English Civil War, and i believe it was. (rember my memory is not the most reliable at times) The secon part are rules compliled by the "Muzzleloading Artilleryman" magazine. It read very much like the rules laid down on the web site Captain Hawkyns gave.

That would be because I wrote 'The Gunner's Instruction' One of my early attempts at trying to get an instruction manual that could be used at a living history event without looking horrendously modern.

For a dozen years I commanded a company of matchlock musketeers and gunners in the English Civil War Society. The School of the Musketeer was a joint effort between a number of ECW/17th Century re-enactment units , intended to get some recruits and expand the hobby.

Hawkyns

[Hawkyns]

I thank ye f' yer kind words, Mister Lassiter. They are much appreciated. And Longarm, it's good ta know that words spoken and instruction given so long ago has had an impact.

I have seen far too many stupid things done with cannon and musket. I've met one armed gunners and seen people injured on the re-enactment battlefield, and seen some damn close near misses. If I can prevent any of our number from taking that trip to the ER or worse, then any knowledge I can give is freely available. In some quarters, I'm known as a bit of a hardass about safety, and even a bit paranoid. So be it. I want to be able to fight my friends over and over, for many years to come.

Hawkyns

[Scupper]

This thread may be getting old, but i'm glad i started it. I've learned alot and want to learn more. Thank you all for answering and giving info in this thread. I appreciate it. And Mr. Hawkyns. I be ready to be apprentice at any time.

Scupper

[capnwilliam]

Nay, Scupper, not old at all, but very much alive, and I tip me tricorn to ye fer startin' it. And I share yer sentiments about Hawkyns!

Capt. William

[Scupper]

maybe we should have a Master of the Guns conference or muster. What say you mates? I be willing to travel some.

Scupper

[Hawkyns]

It's a great idea, but a lot of work. Needs a central area, a site that allows firing, a cooperative site staff, and a fair amount of pre-planning.

Hauling cannon around the country takes a fair amount of doin'.

Scupper- about the guncrew- should not be a problem, but we'll talk after the holidays. the next three weeks are going to be a blur...

Hawkyns

[Fish]

Wish I had a cannon. And a ship to put it on. Lucky people who get to sail around causin'trouble with cannons!

[Scupper]

my thanks Mr Hawkyns. My best wishes to you and yours for the up coming holidays. The same for the rest of the gunners contributing to this thread.

Scupper

[Longarm]

When Lassiter said that one of the men I had mentioned was on the list here at the Pyracy Pub I had a strong feeling it may have been you Captain Hawkyns, tho their are others here who also seem to have a good deal of knowledge of gunnery. But the time frame in which you reinact and your knowledge and insightful replies started to sound very familliar to the man I met. Glad I am to know that you are here and that I have the chance to learn more from you!

I still remember the story you told of how some spectator always seemed to run out on the field to take a picture of the cannon going off just seconds before the powder was lit, and if it weren't for the training and watchfullness of a well organized gun crew, many a fool cameraman would have lost his fool head.

Have you heard of or more than likely own a book called 'Round Shot and Rammers' by Harold L. Peterson? I recently went to my local library to look up some of the books on gunnery that you listed earlier in this thread. Unfortunately being such a small library they didn't have any of them, but I still had to look just in case. The only book on gunnery concerning cannon was the book by Peterson. I haven't Had time to read it yet but from the little bit I have scimmed through and the detailed illustrations it looks to be very informative. In fact The preface starts of with " Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl" sound famillar?

Now that I know who you are you might want to be prepared for alot of questions because I really respected you and your crew when I met you. So be forewarned.

[Hawkyns]

Ask away, Mate. I'll help ye where I can.

RS&R was one of the first books I picked up back in 83 or so. Good overview, and Peterson is one of the big names in weaponry. Some of his stuff is a bit dated now, with new research, but nothing major.

If I can figure out how to use one of the new dgital cameras, I'll post a couple of pics of the new small carriage I made to mount my swivel. Got tired of being in a fixed postion with it, and found an example of a pintle mount piece on a wheeled carriage.

Started the drawing phase for the Dutch 3 truck carriage this morning. Scaling it to fit the barrel that I have. Now comes the process of locating the appropriate hardware, and assembling the iron work. I've found it's best to do that, because it's always easier to make the wood fit the iron, rather than vice versa.

Hawkyns

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye Master Hawkyns,

Good Gods Man!

How many cannon ye got now? Or are ye just makin' multiple trucks/carrages fer the few barrels I know ye have?

Keep it up n' yer gonna hafta get a semi ta move around alla ye artillery....

[Hawkyns]

Just the 4 tubes, Voice, Cricket, Morning Glory, and the new one, Nightingale. The project is to make sure each has both a field and a naval/garrison carriage. That way I can use them whatever the event scenario is.

Voice's carriages will be the major project. The carriage she is on is 20 years old this year. I want to do a complete rebuild on that as well as building a naval truck carriage. Biggest problem with all this coming up with enough square head lag screws in mutlple sizes. The blacksmith work I can do myself, and I've got a place can do any small bronze casting I need.

Hawkyns

[Longarm]

What types of wood do you look for in makeing a gun carriage? I know of some of the differences between naval and field carriages but what are the main things to look for? I can understand how it's alot easier to fit the wood to the iron but what are the critical fittings and how much do they very from naval to field?

I told you I'ld ask alot of questions. Here's a couple of more such as what are the weights and poundages of your guns? How often do you get to use them? How long will a cannon last if proper care is used in firing and storage? You also mentioned that one of your carriages is twenty years old, is this usual or is it because it has not gotten alot of use to warrent a rebuild?