Learning cannon and gunnery

[Scupper]

In keeping with learning about our trade. i was wondering if anyone could discribe the parts, types, loading, sighting and other related knowledge to do with cannons, thier use and upkeep. My thanks

Scupper

[the Royaliste]

:) Repeat after me, "First the powder, then the Ball..!" :) ...

...Or, spend a day here, an' savor the aroma 'o fresh burnt powder!....

"Just pullin' ye're wooden leg, Mate!!"

[Scupper]

LOL And that big floppy stick is like an arrow to hit the rigging right?

I'd give me left n*t to be aboard. I be trying to transfer.

Scupper

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

Aye t'would be a fine thing fer ye to come out n' join in the fun!!

[Coastie04]

"First the powder, then the Ball..!"

I'll be a bit more elaborate for those who don't know the fine inticracies of lighting an explosion inside a hollow metal tube.

First, put the powder in and ram it home. Often, this powder can be pre-measured in a canvas bag or something. Then, the ball or shot. Sometimes even after the ball, a wadding of some sort would be inserted to keep the ball from rolling out of the muzzle. Then, prick and prime the pan...That is, stick a metal spike into the touch hole to lance the cartrige of powder and make sure that the touch hole is free of obstructions. Then, put some powder in the pan (prime it). Lastly, aim and light the powder in the pan. Make sure you're not standing directly behind the cannon when it goes off, and ear protection is recommended.

Coastie

[the Royaliste]

And, although I can be a bit 'wild' when it comes to gunpowder, make sure your pricker is brass, or any NON-FERROUS metal, as, a spark from your steel pricker can ruin your day by sparkin', settin' off the charge, an' makin' a mess of your hand or face before you even know wot' happened! (Pan??)...touch holes, yay, but...pans??... a cord pull on a caplock for later periods (25 Yankee Frogskins apiece, from Dixie)......

[Hawkyns]

Hey Scupper be ye makin' it to the school this Saturday? I'll have my 1pdr swivel with me. Just made a new carriage for it (got tired of not being able to use it, pictures to the list next week). Anyway, I've been runnin' cannon for the last 20 years. Bein' that yer in Connecticut Colony and all, I'll be glad t' teach ye the right of it. I'm always lookin' for gunners mates.

Just remember what I tell all my crews- If you're in control it's a cannon. If the gun's in control, it's a pipe bomb.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

[Hawkyns]

(Pan??)...touch holes, yay, but...pans??... a cord pull on a caplock for later periods

Earlier guns (16th-17th c) frequently have a small pan cast about the touchhole, often in the form of a shell. That's because priming was done with loose powder from the horn. By mid 18th c, quills were used which removed the need for a pan. There were flintlocks that could be used on larger cannon, particularly on shipboard pieces in the 18th c. Caplocks? PTuiiii! If'n ye have to use a late period ignition, at least use friction primers on a pull cord.

Hawkyns

[the Royaliste]

A touch hole 'n linstock man, meself, eh?..no need for frills aboard this ship....but, there are safety concerns for those less than familiar

[Black Deacon]

Well allot of that depends on the type of canon. Muzzle Load, Breach load, Beer mug breachlaoder, etc.

Beings we's pirates I'll just use the basic muzzle loading variety. In most cases the gunner and quartermaster would make sure they had plenty of pre-made powder rolls measured and wrapped. Usually in a cloth sack and then stored back into the powder kegs the raw powder came in. You usually had a "Ramrod or Push rod, a Swab and a Worm."

On the first shot, the powder roll is placed in the barrel and "Driven Home" by the ramrod. Then the ball is added and driven home. The powder roll is pricked and the touch hole is primed with loose powder. Then a lit piece of match cord (cotton rope soaked in salt peter) which is wrapped around a serpent (long stick with wire on the end to hold the match cord) lites the priming powder and whoosh boom.

Then for the second shot the swab was dipped in shoved in, (usually damp with water. Not soaked) to kill any lingering embers. Then repeat the above process.

Now, that being said, sometimes you ran out of powder rolls, lost swabs etc. in battle so then you just use whatever you could get hold of. In the absence of rolls, they would pour the powder directly in the barrel and then shove any piece of cloth they could find in to act as a wadding. This helps in creating the pressure that makes enough velocity.

Now days we mainly use blanks, so you can still make your rolls, but I always put some damp wadded paper or Spanish moss in after that. and really drive it down. The more pressure the loader the boom. Remember... Black Powder is an Explosive. Pyrodex, shotgun, pistol and rifle powder are propellants.

[Coastie04]

I'm used to making modern cartriges as such:

-Get dowel rod of approximate size of cannon bore

-Wrap a bit of tin foil around it, and twist the bottom end

-Smash this bottom end flat

-Take out dowel rod and insert measured (approx) amount of powder

-Insert a bit of bisquick for wadding (works great)

-Twist top end of tin foil taking care not to flatten that side out

-Insert cartrige with twisty end pointing out of cannon

-Ram home...etc.

=BOOM

Coastie

[Hawkyns]

Black Deacon and Coastie

Sorry, an all that, but I'll take issue wi ye both on yer choices o' wadding. Wet newspaper can wad up and form projectile, I've seen it happen. Even when it doesn't, it makes a bloody mess. Bisquick, flour, or any sort of organic powder is dangerous. They can create dust explosions outside the bore, like right in front of the muzzle. Because the burn curve of BP is relatively slow, the forward end of the charge or the wad can already be outside the muzzle by the time the flame hits it. So the organic powder wad will explode just after exiting the bore and breaking up in the air. Same thing that makes grain elevators explode.

If I'm firing tactical, against opposing forces, I use no wad at all. If I'm firing salutes, I use twisted green grass wads. Cut the grass, don't pull it, then you don't get roots and dirt/gravel. The grass should be fresh and green, but not wet, so it won't clump. Breaks up, doesn't explode, and leaves no mess.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

[capnwilliam]

Shipmates All:

This be a very informative thread here! Especially for those like me with zero actual experience at firing cannon. But I also enjoy hearing the experts dispute their choices of wadding material, priming mechanisms, etc.

Mate Hawkyns, it's too late for us for this year: but pray post any info you have, or acquire, about this School of the Sailor, for next year. Sounds like it's worth the trip to New England!

:)

Capt. William

[redhand]

Now, how about marksman ship on the high seas, anybody

have any insight on that...as far as cannons, I mean.

Hawkyns? anybody.

Cannons have never really interested me...

found a picture in a book of a guy in the South Carolina Artillery

(ACW) who looked so much like me, he could'a been my twin...wierd

anyway maybe that's where the canon thing comes from-LOL

However naval gunnery is an interesting subject!

Cheers

Redhand

[Hawkyns]

How long ya got? Seriously, there's about 2 feet of shelf space in my library just filled with period gunnery manuals. It goes into the dispart, being the difference between the bore centerline and the taper of the the cannon ; the angles of fire which requires a fair amount of math and geometry; and numerous other items that were spun out into long technical manuals.

Most of it came down to experience. Every gun shoots differently. The bores were all a bit different in angle due to the casting and the bore pillar. Guns shoot differently as they warm up, shooting further the warmer they get. Then it's the experience of knowing the exact moment to fire on the top of the roll.

Lots of this applies mostly in a stern chase. Broadsides were mostly fired at point blank range. Pirates in particular were aiming for decks and rigging. Hulling your prize and sending him to the bottom was counterproductive.

Take his rigging, stop him in the water, and then clear his decks. Those were the jobs of the pirate gunner. Then its up to the crew to board and finish the job.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

[Black Deacon]

Feel free to take issue. Just a difference in taste. You stated newspaper. I said paper. i should have stated damp toilet paper. The Spanish moss is historically accurate for land firing. I never use foil unless it's buried deep in a tape roll for a simulated ground hit. I've been doing pyro for over 17 years and I've never had anyone hurt at a show or re-enactment by my work. Plus, they pay me to blow shit up. How grand is that?! It's all in your event as to what you need to do. I have a little signal cannon mounted on a pier beam that i use at my outdoor pirate sword fights. Great little attention getter.

[Hawkyns]

Never tried spanish moss, it doesn't grow up up here in New England. Most of my work is with historic sites and opposing forces re-enactments. They get waaaaaay upset if we leave paper shreds around the battlefields. We even go out after the battle to gather up foil shreds and the infantry has to police their cartridge papers. And, as I said, I've seen paper wads ball up. So up here, it's verboten.

I've always used foil cartridges without the sandwich bag liners. Paranoid about safety, that's me. One of the first major schools I went to back in the 80's, I met the one armed gunner from the infamous LaPanne's incident. Couple of years later, I met another one armed gunner. Kind of makes you think real hard about what we do, y'know?

I've been a cannoneer on a crew in England, too. Stuff they do will turn your hair white! Cartridges made out of paper bags, quick firing the piece, moving a loaded piece across the battlefield at a run. And not to mention wadding with 'processed grass'- horse apples! Used against Newcastle's white coats and the puritan preacher, it made quite an impression!!

Hawkyns

[Black Deacon]

Oh, I've been the Civil War, American Revolution, 16th Century Living History Association, French Revolution, Texas Independence route. Seen quite allot along the way.

[Longarm]

I noticed that no one said anything about covering the touch hole when loading to prevent air from being pushed thru and faning any embers that may still be inside. I'm no cannon expert but the few demonstrations that I've seen and the couple that I was allowed to participate in, some one always hand to put their thumb over the hole. In fact I was allowed to do this in one of the demos. A stout leather glove is worn while doing this to protect against burns. Wasn't this common practice when using cannon?

I also met a gunner who used pantyhose to make his loads. Not good in wet weather but they burned up completly when fired leaving no tinfoil or paper or smoldering canvas to clean up.

[Coastie04]

Two bits I have to add here.

First, in my experience with naval cannons (at least in modern times), the bore is given a good swabbing with a wet swab. Any embers still in the bore would be given a good wetting down. Of course, I've really only had experience with smaller bore sizes. Mostly 3-lbers and approx 1-lb swivels, but I've had limited experience with 6 and 12-lbers. Very limited experience with one of the Constitution's 24-lbers. I was just off the port bow when colors went off (they used the forwardmost port cannon)...scared the shit out of me, as I didn't know they fired one o' her cannons for colors.

Second, the pantyhose might seem good, but I'd imagine it would melt and leave residue inside the bore. Over time it probably isn't the best thing for a cannon.

Coastie

[redhand]

Hawkyns-

Thanks, I did know that their aim (no pun intended)

was indeed to frigg the rigging and sails, leaving the

intended prize ship effectively & helpless in the water,

to sink yer prize was indeed shooting yer self in the foot...

OK, that one was on purpose!

I guess, I should have said I'm interested in exactly

how they compensated for the pitch & roll of the ship

as they were sending shot across open water at their

intended victims. I'm sure that was something learned

in HM's Navy or some equivalent!

Cheers

Redhand

[Longarm]

Second, the pantyhose might seem good, but I'd imagine it would melt and leave residue inside the bore.  Over time it probably isn't the best thing for a cannon.

Coastie

You maybe right. But the guy said he'ld been using them for years and that they dissenagrate completely when the cannon is fired. I don't know due pantyhose melt?

[Hawkyns]

Two bits I have to add here.

First, in my experience with naval cannons (at least in modern times), the bore is given a good swabbing with a wet swab. Any embers still in the bore would be given a good wetting down. Of course, I've really only had experience with smaller bore sizes. Mostly 3-lbers and approx 1-lb swivels, but I've had limited experience with 6 and 12-lbers. Very limited experience with one of the Constitution's 24-lbers. I was just off the port bow when colors went off (they used the forwardmost port cannon)...scared the shit out of me, as I didn't know they fired one o' her cannons for colors.

Second, the pantyhose might seem good, but I'd imagine it would melt and leave residue inside the bore. Over time it probably isn't the best thing for a cannon.

Coastie

My crew drill is search, swab, search, swab with a three minute downtime between rounds. Yes, that is *probably* enough to kill any sparks. I just don't trust BP to operate the same all the time. So I use the foil as a double back up. This is also the recommended drill of the National Muzzloading Artillery Association and the National Civil War Artillery Association.

The pantyhose would make me twitch quite a bit. First, If it's that flexible, I'd be concerned about powder dust bleeding out. Second, any imperfections in the bore could catch and cause a tear and subsequent round failure. Third, it would not stop any leftover spark.

I'm not just worried about sparks in the bore. On any given battlefield, there are sparks all over. The other guns, the muskets, and the linstocks are all shedding sparks and you can never be just sure which way the wind will blow them. So the foil is as much for safety between the powder box and pass bag and between pass bag and muzzle as anything else. Like I said, with cannon, you can't be TOO safe.

BTW, on the Constitution's guns. Depends which one they were firing. A couple of her 24pdrs have had the breech half cut and pivoted, and the bore sleeved. They now fire 20mm blank rounds with a lanyard attached to the breech rear. I was amazed and disgusted when I attended the gunnery class on her. Their excuse was that since it had to fire on time everyday, this was the best way to ensure that. They also don't always have muzzleloader qualified crew about. It's a bloody shame, if you ask me......

Hawkyns

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

Basket-style coffee filters work well for making powder bags. They are cheap and they burn away. The basket shape holds the powder, like it would the coffee, then you just tie it shut with thread. I learned that trick from the Captain, aboard the Royaliste.

[Coastie04]

BTW, on the Constitution's guns. Depends which one they were firing. A couple of her 24pdrs have had the breech half cut and pivoted, and the bore sleeved. They now fire 20mm blank rounds with a lanyard attached to the breech rear. I was amazed and disgusted when I attended the gunnery class on her. Their excuse was that since it had to fire on time everyday, this was the best way to ensure that. They also don't always have muzzleloader qualified crew about. It's a bloody shame, if you ask me......

How could they??? I feel cheated