Accurate "Deckhand" Garb

[Abrams]

ok...just a thought here.....so no shootin....

there are plenty of refferences of what common sailors wore(law abidin)

there are plenty of references about pyrate tactics....the one that catches my eye is...tryin to scare them into submission...hence hoistin the pyrate colors an such.......

so...my question is....in the vain of tryin to look "scary enough to force a surrender"...would the common sailor purposly "dress like a pyrate"...as to seem more vicious and scary?....

modern day example....bouncers...they all look the same...big bad and mean...like they could kick yer arse......but do ya know if they can really fight or not???,,,,me either...to scared to try them....

and thats kinda my point.....

if at sea...about to engage  another ship...would a "pyrate"...dress the part....to put the fear of GOD into the other ship?????

any ideas on this one?????

Well, what I think (and I'm just pulling this out of nowhere) is that they might dress all spooky like if A) it was practical in terms of functionality and they had certain clothes to instill fear.

I dunno, but it doesn't seem like people would dress all normal and then get the call to switch to their "murder clothes."

I think hoistin' the colors, firin' a long gun or two, and all the whoops and hollerin' of the rowdy sailors would be enough!

[Capt. Sterling]

I would think the accessories would prove a bit more frightening than the clothes...

[Patrick Hand]

Kinda along the lines of "but I stole them".....

I'm NOT saying Pyrates would be dressed up as Gentlemen.....They would still wear Sailors cloths......

But after taking a ship.... would they steal a new shirt, slops or trousers, or a nicer "going to shore" jacket from someone's sea chest?

I'm just guessing that they would/could be dressed better than common Sailors (but still be dressed as Sailors)

So in the quoted passage......to look like common Sailors, they changed into...

  old ordinary jackets,

I would think the accessories would prove a bit more frightening than the clothes...

Yah.... a brace O' pistols, a blunderbuss an' a cutlass are always great accessories.....

[michaelsbagley]

I've been thinking about this lately, and if anything, I might be more inclined to believe that pirates would have worn more ratty clothing than the next sailor.

My line of thinking goes kind of like this...

Pirates take vessel, and divy up goods.

Pirates go into harbour to sell goods from said taken ship.

Pirate use money from sale of goods to enjoy llife in harbour until said funds dry up and then it is back out to sea.

These are all safe assumption, correct?

I believe Kass (and other as well?) has stated in other threads that the used clothing trade was active and alive at the time.

So if I got a set of clothes as a part of my share of the booty, am I going to sell said clothes in order to have that extra bit of money to enjoy while I am in harbour? Or am I going to wear said clothes, and sell my older item in not as good of shape for probably a lot less money? Obviously I would replace any worn out items with clothes taken as a prize, but anything I do not need, or can sell for more money, is going to get sold so I can enjoy my time in port more. I dunno, maybe I'm thinking at this from the wrong angle, but this just makes the most sense to me based on my above assumptions.

[Fox]

Here's a thought for the melting pot.

One thing that often strikes me when reading accounts of pirates capturing ships is just how much stuff they didn't take. I'm working off the top of my head and I haven't taken the time to go and count statistics or anything, but I'd bet a doubloon that the number of cases where pirates are recorded as having taken clothing just for the hell of it is smaller than the number where the pirates just took any low-bulk-high-value cargo and whatever they needed.

A ship's a small place to be storing a lot of excess crap. We tend to think in terms of pirates ransacking their prey from top to bottom, but how many examples of pirates wantonly stealing clothes do we actually have?

Now, I can certainly see the logic in a pirate whose trousers were getting a bit thin taking a pair off a hapless seaman-victim, but again we must consider what state that pair would be in.

Patrick has raised the point of "shore going" fancy rig, and that's certainly something encountered in the later records. Pictures of Nelson's men ashore show them very diferently from pictures of them at sea: decorated jackets, fancy shoes, and shiny black hats appear rather than tarry jackets, tough shoes, and woollen hats. But do we have any evidence that the same practice was going on a century earlier? Most probate inventories of seamen list more than one set of clothes, but I can't think of any evidence that any of those clothes were particularly "fine". Anyone else?

[Jack Roberts]

Well perhaps not "fine" in the terms of the upper class of the time. Maybe certain pieces were in better condition. Just my 2 cents.

[William Brand]

Most probate inventories of seamen list more than one set of clothes, but I can't think of any evidence that any of those clothes were particularly "fine". Anyone else?

I have found no striking or specific evidence either, but as an observation I have noticed a strong tendancy on the part of reenactors to gravitate towards working cloths over fancy. I think this demonstrates our pragmatism as a group to look like 'daily man'. By default, we strongly represent life down through the ages...eight parts work, two parts play.

My own kit contains clothing that is only just fancy enough to emphasize my position and elevate me only enough to set me apart as a Captain or Quartermaster, yet the clothing is also simple enough that I hope I come across as an officer for the working day.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a bloody peacock at times, heaven help me. I like a good walking stick and a pocket watch on a gold chain complete with fob, but realistically I try and keep it simple.

[Patrick Hand]

OK... as an example...

4 pr. trousers black patched and worn

2 pr. trousers dark wool

1 pr. trousers Dark blue pin stripped wool

That looks kinda close to some of the invintories that I've read through.... they listed old clothing with the new clothing....

Now if I was going to do some painting, or messy work, which pair of trousers do you thing I'd wear? And if I'm sorta dressing up, I'd wear the wool trousers.... If I'm really dressing up, I wear the Dark blue pin stripped

suit.

the point of "shore going" fancy rig, and that's certainly something encountered in the later records.

I can't find an early example of "shore going" clothing, but saving you good clothing for special occasions and wearing you old stuff to work in kinda makes sence.....

I figure that a Sailor on a merchant ship would do so..... why get his good clothing covered with tar, and grimmy... but when they got to shore, he'd wear his good clothing.

The only difference that I can remember reading about (I think it was in "The Wooden World" ) was that the"good" jackets had brass buttons and sometimes they "taped" the jacket's seams.... and the fabric for the good clothing was of better quality. (I'd also guess that there might have been some embrodery on the clothing.... but will save that discussion for a little latter....)

So if a Pyrate's jacket is worn out and starting to fall apart,.... and he needs a new jacket after taking a merchant ship, which jacket do you think he would take..... the tar stained worn jacket the Sailor is wearing and working in, or one of his good ones ?

[Fox]

Sorry Pat, reread my post and saw how it sounded (eh?)

I'm entirely in agreement with your example, of course he'd take the better of the two coats (that is to say, whichever suited his purpose better). I also agree entirely that he'd probably have set aside at least one outfit for "dirty" work, and one to try to keep clean.

However, following your hypothetical pirate a bit further. He has a jacket, maybe two, both are tarry and perhaps patched, but neither are in danger of wearing out or falling to pieces. He and the rest of his crew are not in the habit of wantonly stealing stuff they don't need, especially not from brother tars. Does he take either of his victim's jackets?

The point I'm really thinking on though is that rather than a fancy "shore rig", perhaps the sailor's best is simply the one that's not covered in crap.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

This has come up before... another board perhaps?

anyway

and having ordered out the boat, he commanded six men in her, in old ordinary jackets, while he himself, with the master and doctor, dressed themselves like gentlemen; his design being, that the men should look like common sailors, and they like merchants;

I read it a little differently.

He didn't order 6 men to put on ordinary jackets, he order 6 men that were already dress as sailors, already in ordinary jackets to get into the boat.

The only people actually quoted as changing into other clothes, or into a disguise are "he himself", the master, and the doctor. Interesting that their disguise is to "dress up" like gentlemen.... leading us to believe that even in these positions of authority, they were not already dressing like gentlemen.

So another way to write it would be "we told six regular sailors in their ordinary sailors clothes to get into the boat, while we dressed up like gentlemen so we would appear to be more like a regular merchant ship and crew.

Of course, that is just how I read it.

GOF

[Capt. Sterling]

and having ordered out the boat, he commanded six men in her, in old ordinary jackets, while he himself, with the master and doctor, dressed themselves like gentlemen; his design being, that the men should look like common sailors, and they like merchants;

I read it a little differently.

He didn't order 6 men to put on ordinary jackets, he order 6 men that were already dress as sailors, already in ordinary jackets to get into the boat.

The only people actually quoted as changing into other clothes, or into a disguise are "he himself", the master, and the doctor. Interesting that their disguise is to "dress up" like gentlemen.... leading us to believe that even in these positions of authority, they were not already dressing like gentlemen.

So another way to write it would be "we told six regular sailors in their ordinary sailors clothes to get into the boat, while we dressed up like gentlemen so we would appear to be more like a regular merchant ship and crew.

Certainly makes sense from the sentence structure...

[BILLY BONES]

Now, as far as the sandal question, I was wearing the same rope sandals as armorer on the Flying Dutchman. After they broke in a bit, it seemed they didn't slip at all. Then one night as we wrapped, I was going down a long ramp with my arms full of weaponry. That was it mate. My foot slipped like I was on ice, my knee crumpled, and I slid down 30 feet of ramp that had anti-slip deck tape all over it. I still have trouble walking sometimes, but I didn't drop a gun. The sandals were wet, and stayed wet for quite a while. I sure wouldn't wear them shipboard again.

[Pirate Petee]

and having ordered out the boat, he commanded six men in her, in old ordinary jackets, while he himself, with the master and doctor, dressed themselves like gentlemen; his design being, that the men should look like common sailors, and they like merchants;

He didn't order 6 men to put on ordinary jackets, he order 6 men that were already dress as sailors, already in ordinary jackets to get into the boat.

The only people actually quoted as changing into other clothes, or into a disguise are "he himself", the master, and the doctor. Interesting that their disguise is to "dress up" like gentlemen.... leading us to believe that even in these positions of authority, they were not already dressing like gentlemen.

So another way to write it would be "we told six regular sailors in their ordinary sailors clothes to get into the boat, while we dressed up like gentlemen so we would appear to be more like a regular merchant ship and crew.

Of course, that is just how I read it.

GOF

Thats how I read that as well, he stating it adjectivally to describe the difference between himself and the other sailors.

In my personal opinion, people are people, and given the opportunity to go on a shopping spree, so to speak, I think that they would take full advantage of an opportunity, " Thats a nice coat, I'll take that" or "Thats a nice coat, I could sell that" especially giving the situation where they wouldn't know where their next source of income would be coming from and taking whatever form of currency they could find. Beggars can't be choosers you know.