Uniform colors?

[blackjohn]

Yes, uniforms early in the period were similarly colorful. I have a whole book of WSS uniform details. There are some neat color combinations.

[michaelsbagley]

That is VERY awesome, Michael! Brilliant work there, mate.

So... which regiment will you be portraying then?

Basically, I had a look at the most common colour combinations, and found that "Independant Companies" used the red coats with the blue lining/cuffs. I went mostly from a research document by Lee Offin, his document showed that there were Indpendant Companies in Nova Scotia, four in New York, one in Bermuda, two in Barbados, one in the Bahamas, two in Jamaica, two in St. Kitts, one in Newfoundland. There were also independant companies in Virginia and other areas earlier in the time frame, but the previous list covers the later period I was focussing on for this uniform. This makes the uniform very diverse. I could have used white, yellow, green, or even orange (and perhaps other colours as well), but I just found the blue covered the most ground.

Curious as I didn't see it (or overlooked it)... did the early 18th c uniforms have lacing, or special buttons, or incorporate certain colored lapels or cuffs just as they did in the mid and late 18th c? I know the the Rev War, lots of Brit Regiments were identified by the type of lace, buttons and colored cuffs, lapels or even different colored uniforms. I haven't dove deep into pre- Rev War military much.

~Lady B

Lacing was used on hats, but near as I can tell, the regimental lacing of one colour or another with specific coloured stripes for a particular unit was later period. So lacing was generic and as far as I can tell not specific to one unit or another... The War of Spanish Succession (Queen Anne's War) was pretty much the beginning of standardization of the British armies, and most of the F&IW and Rev War conventions were really begun in the late 1720s or 1730s. Buttons also do not seem to be numbered in the GAoP, as during the GAoP, companies were more named for their comander than numbered. The later GAoP does see the early stages of numbered units, but it really didn't get into full swing until after the period.

The only units that seem to have lacing on buttonholes, as far as I can tell are the Grenadier units, and they are pretty much a specialty type of unit. I haven't really seen any evidence as to whether units of marines use lacing or not, but regiments of foot (which is what I am going for) seem to not use lace on anything except to trim the hats. Alsothe few images of grenadier units I have seen that have lacing, doesn't appear to have the same specifics as the later period F&IW or Rev War stuff. As far as I can tell, the grenadier units, just had solid colour plain lacing to match their unit colours.

Hope this helps.

Edited October 19, 2008 by michaelsbagley

[michaelsbagley]

I have been scouring through th London Gazette's of the period looking for more information, but because the archived issues from this period were done by poor quality OCR, the text search is almost unusable.... You can find the web site HERE

Anyways, I did manage to find the following quote dated to March 1711 ON THIS PAGE about a deserted soldier. I had to retype the info as the OCR software did a nasty job with this. The original is pretty badly faded, so I had to do some educated guesswork on some of the words.

Deserted the 9th Infantry, from Harwich William Boatwright,

Sarj-eant of the Earl of Hartford's Regiment, something

above a middle stature, light(ly?) made, long Visag'd, with lad colour'd

dark ??Har?? a grey Coat and Wastcoat with grey Buttons,

and over them a red Coat lin'd with blue, and brass buttons

Whoever can give an account ot him and secure him, to Mr, J ,

Goush? Agent to the aforesaid Regiment, in Stone-Cutters alley.

Pall-Mall shall have 5 Guineas Reward.

Edited November 26, 2008 by michaelsbagley

[Fox]

I think it's:

...middle stature slight made... with sad colour'd lank hair

...Mr J. Gough

Edited November 29, 2008 by Foxe

[michaelsbagley]

This photo (By the amazing Tony Callahan) pretty much sums up my Red Coat portrayal and gear.

I think the only thing I have left that I intend to add is a set of hemp canvas gaitors, and perhaps different shoes.... Oh and an earlier style musket.

Edited December 28, 2008 by michaelsbagley

[Rats]

I love it!!!!

Utterly perfect!!

Thank you for making the jump and making it happen! Now we can build from what you have started and have a standard to work off of!!!

[Matty Bottles]

Michael, I can't tell from the pics - are those brass or pewter buttons? Also, I hope you are at RF5 - you will see a greatly expanded kit.

[michaelsbagley]

Michael, I can't tell from the pics - are those brass or pewter buttons? Also, I hope you are at RF5 - you will see a greatly expanded kit.

Those are brass buttons, they are the ones that Mary Diamond deals in when there is enough demand (See this thread for details). In my researched, I've found evidence for different units using either brass or tin/pewter buttons. I've not found any solid evidence for which the unit I am trying to portray uses, so I just made a judgement call.

I'm also looking forward to seeing the updates to your gear.

Cheers

[michaelsbagley]

In the ever ongoing research to improve my Red Coat portrayal, I came across this article. I have read this article before, and in fact a great deal of my inspiration for my portrayal came from this article... But this is the first time I have found the article as a web page and not a PDF file on a forum that requires forum access to view.

British Regulars in America, 1664-1714 by Lee Offen

The rest of the web site if pretty good and worth a look as well.

First Captain’s Company - Colonel George Douglas, 1st Earl of Dumbarton's Regiment of Foot, 1660-1685

I also stumled across this on the Pirate Brethren forum... It's a book in 5 parts in PDF format. It is essentiall a 1701 officer's manual. I copied it onto my hard drive and will be printing it out in the very near future. I will be using it to derive musket and military drills from to add more depth to the Red Coat portrayal. (I hope BlackJohn doesn't mind me linking this material here...)

The Compleat Gentleman Soldier

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Originally posted On this thread of the Pirate Brethren Forum.

[theM.A.dDogge]

thats fantastic read....i had a copied copy (?)...of that pamplet years ago...and could nolonger find it.....thanks (and for pyrating from blackjohnm) for posting.

i also have a copy of period drawrings of forsaid exercises...if i can find that too...somewhere....i think....

[Capt. Sterling]

Mickey, great stuff,...thanks for all yer hard work.

[michaelsbagley]

Another interesting citation about equipage.... No mention of uniform colours (although it is in reference to a "Red Regiment")

Taken from the lower right hand corner Of this page of a London Gazette published in 1715. (Some typing corrections put in by me)

Wellminster ss.

By virtue of an Act of Parliament made in the

first year of the Reign of his present Majesty, and (This would be King George the First)

by Order of the Lieutenancy of tbe County of Midlesex,

you of the Red Regiment of Westminster

are required to appear in Person, or send a fit and

able Man to be listed for you in Covent-Garden on

Thursday the 17 th Instant, with a good, Musquet

and a Bayonet fitted thereto, a Cartouch Pouch (witb

Shoulder and Sword Belts, and Sling, each of Buff)

And likewise bring witb you half a Pound of Powder,

and half a Pound of Bullets, as yon will answer the

contrary at your Peril

And another good reference...

381. Agents of Barbados to the Council of Trade and Plantations. Refer to enquiries concerning the need of small arms for Barbados, etc. We are of opinion that the Island may stand in need of a present supply of 1,200 fuzees slung, 600 pair of horse-pistols, with holsters, 600 horsemen's swords, 600 belts, 200 muskatoons, and a suitable proportion of bullets, flints and catuse [? cartouche] boxes for the firearms. Renew application for great guns and ordnance stores for them. We humbly hope your Lordships will represent this to H.M. in Council, as also that Her Majesty would be graciously pleased to give speedy orders for the repair of the fortifications, and that there may be sent thither 18 experienced Gunners. All which the Council and Assembly hope will be granted them upon account of 23,174l. 6s. 11d., which they disbursed for raising, victualling, accoutring and transporting two Regiments of Foot to Martinico in the late war. Signed, Wm. Bridges, Rob. Heysham, Fra. Eyles. Endorsed, Recd. Read April 28, 1702. 2 pp. Enclosed,

From: 'America and West Indies: April 1702, 27-30', Calendar of State Papers Colonial, America and West Indies, Volume 20: 1702 (1912), pp. 269-287. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.as...query=cartouche Date accessed: 15 April 2009.

[PyratesKeepe]

So Mike just showed me an awesome book, 'Before The Mast: Life and Death Aboard the Mary Rose' edited by Julie Gardiner with Michael J. Allen

Starting around page 27 there is drawings and detailed descriptions of clothing. Very non piraty woolen caps & tunics. Maybe a good reference for those wanting to dress as militia not in uniform.

[michaelsbagley]

Another slow day at the office...

A bit early for what I am trying to focus on, but the below is from December 1688 for those interested in earlier period soldier's gear.

From about two thirds of the way down the right hand column of This London Gazette Page

George White, a Serjeant, with a Red Coat lin'd with

White, a broad Silver lac'd Hat, Sword, Waste and

Shoulder Belt, John Rvam, Will Hill, John Hambleton,

Charles Harwell, Will Kingsley, Henry Griffen, Rich Mel-

lows, Anthony Whitfeild, Edward Lea, Joseph Smith,Henry

Nichols, George Feildy and Stephen Peircy, private soldiers,

all Clothed with Red lined with White, with Swords, Belts

and Bayonets, run away from Windsor Castle, out of Cap-

tain Matthew Smiths Company. Whosoever shall apprehend

the said Serjeant or Private Soldiers, or any of them, and

give Notice thereof to Mr. Cardonnel at the War Office

within the Horse Guards, shall be well Rewarded besides all

Charges.

And from the London Gazette June 1689

Oliver Hatton of Chowbent near, Manchester in Lanca-

shire, a lusty young fellow, with light colour'd Hair,

and fresh Complexion, run away from his Colours in the

Lord Viscount Lisbon's Regiment, with the Colonels Livery

being Buff coloured Cloth and red Liining, with a red Cloth

Surtoot (?), Hat Lac'd with gilt Lace, a Buff Waste Belt and

Sword, &c. Whoever gives notice of him at my Lord Lis-

bon's Huouse in Arlington-Street near St. James's, or at the

Pay Master General's Office for Ireland, over against Scotland

Yard Gate, shall have 30 s. Reward

[michaelsbagley]

The below is interesting mostly because of the mention of a sling on the musket... It is the first reference for GAoP slings that I have seen. The mention of "shot pouch" on a "shoulder belt" rather than a catridge/cartouch box also deserves note.

From the London Gazette Oct. 1715

At a Board of Lieutenancy held for the County

of Middlesex and City of Westminster, on Monday

the 24th Day ofOctober, 1715. By Vertue of an Act

of Parliament passed in the first Year of the Reign

f his present Majesty, entituled, An Act for mak-

ing the Militia of that part of Great Britain called

England more useful, and for obliging an annual

Account to be made of Trophy Mony ; it is ordered

that the several Persons chargeable to find Foot Sold-

iers and Arms in the said County and City, and

the Liberties thereof, do forthwith provide for e-

very Foot soldier, a Musquet (with a Sling) and

Bayonet fitt'd thereto, a Cartouch Pouch, with a

Shoulder belt, a sword with a Waist-belt; and that

they do appear in Person therewitb, or send the same

by some other Persons proper to be listed for them

upon Monday the 14th of November next, at such

Hour and Place as shall be appointed by the Com-

manding Officer of each Regiment respectively;

and that all Persons who shall neglect to provide

such Arms and appear therewith, or send the same

as aforesaid, shall be punished according to Law.

And look, a July 1719 London Gazette reference to Foot Soldiers being used in maritime battle

ASpanish Privateer having some

Days ago taken an English Vessel

that was at Anchor in the

Port of Faro, and attempting to carry

her out. Mr. Lemptere the British

Consul at that Port, made Complaint to

the Governour of the Town, who gave

him a Company of Foot Soldiers, with

which he embarked in two Boats, engaged

the Privateer, boarded and took

her,' the Captain with 23 Men he brought

Prisoners to the Town, where they were

confined in the Common Gaol till Orders

mould be sent from this Court.

[LadyBarbossa]

Awesome, awesome info.

I just had to toss these in, too. Awesome info I think. on the uniforms, too.

This comes from the website for Lord Orkney's Regiment of Foote, looks like a living history group portraying a regiment during the timeperiod of the GAoP. Saw this after doing a Google search for Justacorps.

Link to the website, looks like some good info, too:

http://www.geocities.com/ancasta1/index.htm

And interesting selection of the uniform justacorps:

Hope this is helpful to some degree if ye haven't gone there already.

I have an image, too, of another regimental of the timeperiod even if it is a replicated justacorps. Lemme find it.... :::Dashes off to find it AFTER cleaning up after the cat! then feed him then off to lunch with mom::: Ok, will take a wee bit longer...

~Lady B

[michaelsbagley]

Thanks for posting those! I've seen those posted on another forum before...

Those uniforms are of French manufacture for the Swedish Army during the "Great Northern War" (1700-1721) which ran almost paralel to the "War of Spanish Succession/Queen Anne's War" (1703-1714), which is smack dab in the middle of the GAoP (depending on who's definition of GAoP you are using ).

The two coats with red cuffs are officers uniforms (if memory serves me well) and the middle two are rank and file uniforms (again going from memory).

[LadyBarbossa]

It's an interesting example of the variety of colors and means used, like the piping, the buttonholes, and especially the colors, with the blue and red but the Lord Orkney regiment has red and white which is most interesting. Another justacorp was yellow as the pirmary outside color and blue with the inside & cuff color. Wide variety of colors and the varied decor/trim differences.

BTW, curious to know what those who are portraying military, which military and branch they portraying during the GAoP.

~Lady B

[michaelsbagley]

Interesting post with some almost terchnical details about the musquets used...

From Boston

Whereas the law directs that every listed foot-solider be always provided with a well fixt firelock musquet of musquet or bastard musquet bore, the barrel not less than three foot and an half long, or other good fire arms to the satisfaction of the Commission officers of the Company, notwithstanding which most of them appear with arms no ways agreeable to the direction of the Law and very unfit for service, ordered that as well the soldiers lately sent to H.M. Castle to enforce the garrison there, as such others as from time to time may be detached and imprest for H.M. service there or elsewhere, appearing with arms unfit for service, shall be furnished with good fuzils or other good well fixt fire arms in advance towards their wages, to be charged therewith on accompt, and that Mr. Treasurer procure a certain number of suitable good fire-arms in readiness.

From: 'America and West Indies: May 1701, 12-15', Calendar of State Papers Colonial, America and West Indies, Volume 19: 1701 (1910), pp. 226-246. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.as...trquery=musquet Date accessed: 17 April 2009.

[Joe Pyrat]

This is what we generally wear at Castillo de San Marcos, Spanish Marine (Artillery). The waistcoat changes to blue for Infantry. Time period is 1740 which coinsides with the major English attack on the Castillo. There are some other uniforms I will investigate shortly and try and get pictures of.

Disclaimer: I'm new to this, just having completed Cannon School so there may be inaccuracies which I will endeavor to correct as my knowledge of El Castillo and her defenders increases.

[michaelsbagley]

This is what we generally wear at Castillo de San Marcos, Spanish Marine (Artillery). The waistcoat changes to blue for Infantry. Time period is 1740 which coinsides with the major English attack on the Castillo. There are some other uniforms I will investigate shortly and try and get pictures of.

Disclaimer: I'm new to this, just having completed Cannon School so there may be inaccuracies which I will endeavor to correct as my knowledge of El Castillo and her defenders increases.

<Photo clipped for brevity>

Nice! I'm not sure how specific to the 1740s that uniform is, but to my eyes it would not look out of place at an earlier 1700s event either. Very cool stuff! Thanks for sharing!

[LadyBarbossa]

Ye look smashing, Joe. Thank ye for th' image and wee info. And, um... Cannon School?

~Lady B

[Guest]

<Off topic... well kinda on topic... but a flippant reply... so it doesn't count......>

(oh yeah... and I wouldn't really do this...)

SO I find some cheap greyish brown wool, and some yellow... make a justicorp, and claim it ifs from Lord Westlys 3 57th(remember him from the Princess Bride )...

The worst part is it "could" be period.... I'm not doing the "if they had it" argument..... I'm just wondering about what was really used... and why (well it was cheap, and I had to clothe an entire Regiment...)

There were common colours, (and grey being one of them).....

Eeeergh.... I should just stop typing before anyone takes me seriously.....

[Joe Pyrat]

Ye look smashing, Joe. Thank ye for th' image and wee info. And, um... Cannon School?

~Lady B

Aye Cannon School!

You will note some mundane clothing on this crew. This is the school. The following link is an actual firing. We no longer hold the sponge, ram, ladle and worm horizontally but keep them vertical since we are now firing three guns at the same time and it is too crowded for this method but otherwise the drill is exactly the same. If you are interested the next school is in September I believe. This Link will take you to the NPS information page on the school with the phone numbers you can use to get more up to date information.

Oh, by the way, after you fire 4 times following the school they give you a card showing you are a graduate of the Cannon School at Castillo de San Marcos. How cool is that?

[michaelsbagley]

Okay, to keep the below image with the rest of the other soldier information... and to delve further and carry on the conversation started on this thread

Below image,lovingly borrowed from the Baltimore Rangers web site, depicts some English Soldiers of the 1690s. Look on their belts...

Now do keep in mind that these are land troops (dragoons?), but it does show that powder horns were carried and used.

These are supposed to be dragoons? Dismounted..? right then off track...

On looking more intently at the image, I would guess that those are not dragoons. The dragoon comment comes from a half remembered conversation I had with John Machate of the Baltimore Rangers, and I think I may have grossly misremembered the conversation.

The long arms in that image look too long (not carabines) to be dragoon arms is the biggest indicator to me that your seeming incredulity of me calling them dragoons may be well founded. (of course that is if I am reading your post correctly, and what I thought was you expressing doubt about them being dragoons is what you intended).