Raphael Misson

Mission's gonna miss that skull icon...

Too true. Life here would become colorless, worthless, hopeless, helpless and hapless without it. But it has been restored.

Geez! It's not cumulative! It keeps track for every single post!

Hey! Cut it out! I'm trolling (so to speak) for the most negative rating on the board! I have been warned off by a moderator, you know.

You now have a reputation of 0.

I now have a reputation of -1. (I can demote myself. )

I'd turn this feature off. It will create more angst than good will. I have already seen that on far too many boards where this was truned on.

I second this.

In any case, those of you who find bugs and want to help squish 'em, please post the what, when and where of it here.

The icons are missing.

The software has done something strange to the old quote commands so that old posts with quotes are sort of hard to read.

The gallery thing at the top of the forum is sort of annoying. (Ok, that's an opinion, not a bug.)

Judging by the diversity of the crewe, a Mosquito Indian pilot, Hendrick Quintor, a black/Dutchman, and a nine year old who pleaded to go along, i would feel comfortable saying "yes", they would have released the slaves upoon capture. My opinion based on social structure, and the political history of the crewe (i.e. who they sailed with, and who they chose not to prior to the last raid before the wreck).

Mosquito Indians were not slaves, they were guides that were sort of hired or shanghai'd to guide ships in unfamiliar waters. Several privateering accounts talk about using Mosquito Indians for such. (Although, based on what I read, they seem to have been treated as second-class citizens by the English sailors.)

As I said before, different ships treated slaves differently. It may also have been somewhat context-dependent. If there were a few slaves, they could probably be absorbed into the crew. If there was a shipload of them, there was the very real possibility of them overtaking the ship - pirate or no. Thus it may be in the pirates best interests to sell them. (I keep thinking of an account where the pirates burned the slave ship with the slaves still in it, but I can't remember where I saw that or if it was even period. Anyone know what I'm talking about?)

Cool,

Glad you saved those pics. I`ll have to add to my ebay searches apothcary naval. I can see where there was a rod that extened down thru and into the lower drawer to secure it, notice on the back of the same lower drawer where there is a ware mark from the rod it`s in line with both holes . The bottles were square!

Thanks ...MC

Ah, I didn't notice the rod! Very interesting!

Yes, the square bottles were preferred according to one book.

"In the last place, let me advise you to take such care in putting up of your Medicines, as that they may be preserved good as long as possible.

For this end you had better have square double Glass Jars and Bottles, then Gallipots; for these will fit the partitions in your Chest better than the others, and indeed will preserve your Medicines cooler and better."

And let each Jar or Bottle, that you carry your Fermenting Medicines in, be larger than to hold the quantity you put in them, that there may be

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room to ferment, and let them be covered well that the Air spoil them not.

And let not the Syrup Bottles that will ferment, be Corked, but only their Covers tyed hard down and pricked. (Moyle, John, Chirurgus Marinus or The Sea-Chirurgion. (1693 edition), p. 41-2)

He also says this, which I found interesting.

"And if the partitions in your Surgery Chest are not lined with Bayes,

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you must wrap your Jars and Bottles in Towe [linen], to preserve them from breaking in carriage or removing.

...

Now in Merchant Men (and in some of the Men of War) the Surgeons use to carry their Druggs in the bottom of their Surgery Chests, but I have found a great inconveniency in it, and there must be a preposterous rummaging and displacing of things, to get at what you would have, and Papers breaking [the dry 'medicines' are wrapped in paper], and one thing mixing with another, besides the danger of breaking Bottles, and spilling and spoiling medicines.

'Tis far better to let partitions be made all over the bottom of your Surgery Chest, and there to place your largest and weightiest Jarrs and Bottles. [This supports the idea of different sized bottles which we were talking about previously.]

And as for your dry things that are done up in Papers; carry a single Drugg Chest, and let them be decently stowed there.

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And there likewise your set of large Instruments may be kept [Here's where the Bone Saw goes, according to Moyle!], because in that Chest there is nothing but what is dry.

Here you may keep your dryed Herbs, Flowers, Roots, Seeds, Farrinas [probably flours], and likewise your Roulers [strips of linen used as bandages], Splints, Skins, Bladders&c. As also your Box of first Intentions; that is, dismembering Pledgits [compresses of absorbent material, often lint], Buttons [button-like/sized pieces of lint or linen], and Tents [roll of absorbent material, often medicated to keep a wound open], ready made; some larger and some lesser, for any Stumps or Vessels, or Gunshot Wounds or Stabs, that may offer." (Moyle, p. 42-4)

At this point, my supposition is that the "Drugg Chest" is a single or possibly double level box that would house the saws, retractors, bullet extractors, capital knife and other large surgical instruments, probably with some sort of compartmentalization to keep the paper-wrapped items safe from the pointed and bladed instruments. If it is double-leveled, I would suggest the top part would be removable and would contain the instruments. The bottom part would contain the dry medicines and bandages.

So now we have a Surgery Chest - containing "wet" medicines, which I suspect is square-shaped, and a Drug Chest - containing "dry" medicines, pre-prepared bandages and large instruments, which I suspect is a long box.

Below is an example of a mid 18th century surgeon's kit in the style of box I am thinking about (sort of) from the Pirate Soul museum in Key West:

Note that this box contains no space for medicines and bandages. Thus Moyle's "Drugg Chest" would almost surely be larger to accommodate these items.

But, like a Ginsu knife commercial, there's more!

"And being on Board, see that your dressing box is furnished. [A third box! I believe this is the same thing as the Plaster box identified by Woodall, as you'll see presently.]

That is a Box with 6 or 8 Partitions in it, and a Place for Plaisters ready spread. In the Partitions you put your Pots and Glasses of Balsams and Oyles for present use.

Now this Box as well as your pocket Instruments [a fourth item] must be carried every Morning to the Mast between Decks, where our Mortar is usually rung [if I understand this correctly, he must have a metal Mortar and Pestle set which he strikes to announce the morning medicine brigade. If...], that such as have any Sore or Ailment may hear in any part of the Ship, and come thither to be drest. But such as by reason of illness cannot come thither you must go to them where they Lye." (Moyle, p. 46)

So, according to Moyle, who is right in the middle of period, unlike any previous author I have cited, we have four instrument and drug transports. The Surgeon's chest, the Drug Chest, the Plaster Box and the Pocket Kit.

A note on the Pocket Kit - these had been around for a long time by the time the 18th century dawned and there are many examples of them. The often contained small items like needles, fleams (for bloodletting), lancets, small scissors and forceps. Here is an example of such a kit that I own (about 100 years outside of period based on the style of the forceps' handles):

Just got back from my sisters place in Chicago. We went to see the Whydah exhibit at the Field Museum, and spent the whole day there. Those Pyrates, at least, were decent enough to take a slaving ship out of service, and convert it to plundering. They also allowed crew to either join up, or to go about their way in the lesser ships/prizes after they had all thay wanted. Bellamy's floatilla at least, seem to have decent qualiteis about them. Better a Pyrate than a slaver eh? But as in all walks of life, you get the good, the bad, and the ugly, no matter what you are involved in.

Would they have freed the slaves if the Whydah had been a creaky old tub riddled with shipworm?

Not only that, but as Joe Pyrat noted, this is an example of "trying to apply the current definition of what a decent person is to a time where the definition was very different." The slave trade was legal at that time - to take a slave ship "out of service" was just to steal it from a legal business owner. I don't know about the Whydah's particular situation, but the results of a pirate taking a loaded slaver varied. Some pirates taught the slaves to be pirates, others treated them as slaves and still others just sold them to plantations.

You could argue that teaching slaves to be pirates was a good act. Although, thinking about it a bit, this could also be primarily self-serving. While a pirate, a slave was free - if he left the crew and was captured he was once again a slave. So one would think that slaves would make for extraordinarily loyal and dependable crewmen - unlike captured sailors. They were free, but they were actually enslaved by society to the pirates. In a way.

Mission doesn't actually know the answers, he just acts like he does.

"Oh, he's not a chicken - he's a loud-mouthed schnook."

Beware, rabbits...

Why aren't more pirate reenactment groups based in the primary places they operated (I'm thinking of "Brit" pirates, as found in Johnson's book), notably Caribbean and Carolinas.

Probably because they don't have quite as much disposable income as people located in England and America do. Also, from my experience many of the people living in the Caribbean are descended from slaves. So I suspect their view of history is a little different than ours...they may not consider themselves potential past pirates - and thus have no reason to re-enact that. They might have a more solemn perspective about history. (Well, that's how I perceive I would feel in their shoes, anyhow. I certainly wouldn't want to re-enact being a slave. Respect the fact and keep it in mind, but re-enact...no.)

Will I ever be able to win the lottery?

Yes, you are able to win it now. However the odds are so stacked against your winning that you can barely comprehend the numbers. So if your question were changed to "Will I win the lottery in my lifetime?" the answer is "Almost certainly not." (Sorry.)

I disagree. You can almost positively win the lottery. Here's how. Buy $10,000 worth ot tickets. I can gurantee at least one will be a $5 winner!

Now, winning the grand prize or significant prize be another story.

Good point. You have to define "lottery" better. I was thinking of the local Lotto which has one prize.

Will I ever be able to win the lottery?

Yes, you are able to win it now. However the odds are so stacked against your winning that you can barely comprehend the numbers. So if your question were changed to "Will I win the lottery in my lifetime?" the answer is "Almost certainly not." (Sorry.)

Shall I split this errant discussion into another topic?

Did Mission help Oswald kill JFK?

Why is Ed Foxe?

Ed Foxe is because someone must be Ed Foxe and it may as well be...Ed Foxe.

Mission wasn't alive when JFK was shot, so probably not. But who knows? Perhaps he was in the grassy hole on the grassy knoll.

There has to be better governing strategy. Or, I'll agree that it is entirely possible, that the optimal governing strategy involves contentious and upsetting shifts in governing strategies. But I doubt that. I really don't know, so that's why I'd like an answer. See?

How much of the difference between the human sexes is learned and how much is natural?

What is the optimal societal governing strategy? (I'm assuming it is something we have not yet tried.)

What is the ultimate question?

Ah, good stuff.

“If, says Strobelberger, a place is to be accorded, in dental therapeutics, to the vain remedies, among these, amulets deserve the preference; and the best accredited amulet is the root of the lepidium, already recommended by Discorides, who affirms that if it be hung around the neck of the sufferer it will cause pain to cease.

One of the superstitious remedies to be used aganst [sic] this affection (Chapter LVIII), consists in touching the aching tooth with the tooth of a dead person, and afterward greasing it with horse’s marrow.

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Among the ridiculous remedies (Chapter LIX), the author describes one that was especially in use among soldiers. With a piece of chalk or of rubble one writes on a table:

Chiacia.....Chiacia.....Chiacia

X..O..X......X..O..X......X..O..X

[Periods added to prevent removal of spaces by forum editor.]

One then pricks the tooth with a knife or an iron toothpick until it bleeds slightly; then thrusting the point of the instrument, to which the blood adheres, into the first cross, then into the second, then into the third, and so on, one asks the patient each time if the tooth still pains him. Before one gets to the last cross the pain ceases! This stolid cure, says the author, has no other value than that of the scarification of the part affected.” (Guerini, p. 221-2)

Yes, Blackbeard's real goal was to remain in power, as I suggested. To "remind them who he was."

While life was not comfortable in the 17th, it wasn't really "brutal." A pirate actually chose a life more brutal and open to the vicissitudes of fate than most people of the time, but even that life was accompanied by long periods of frustration and boredom. Look at what happened to Kidd and his crew. In fact, the whole point of gaining a reputation as fierce and bloodythirsty was to cause merchants to strike without fighting. Pirates did not willingly engage the BRN warships - they avoided the BRN like the plague. There was no profit in fighting them and they were better manned, gunned and trained than the merchant ships. So why would they ever try for a BRN ship - even a 6th rate had over a hundred men and more than 20 cannon.

Speaking of which, I wonder how many pirates descended from the BRN and how many came from merchant vessels. For some reason, I have the impression that many of them were merchant sailors and not Royal Navy. Ed, have you seen anything on that?

It's sort of odd that we all want to dress and (allegedly) act like period criminals. From reading the General History and knowing bits and pieces about its history, I have the impression that it was a sensationalistic book that capitalized on the public fascination with skulduggery, death and rogue behaviors. This is human nature and we still see it in media today. Are the bad boy rappers heroes or villains? They sure get enough ink when they're carrying on. How about the errant sports stars? Misbehaving movie actors?

In a way, the General History sort of paints its subjects as colorful scoundrels. But when you stop and think about some of the things they did, these people's behaviors were really quite horrifying. Blackbeard shot one of his men just for the hell of it. L'Olonnais cut the heart out of a Spaniard and bit into it because he wouldn't tell him something. Low cut the lips off a Portuguese captain, broiled them, and forced the man to eat them because he wouldn't reveal the location of a bag of gold coins. In context, it sounds almost circus-like in a way. But think about those actions. Really think about what it would be like to witness them as a captive of these people and not know if you were next in line for the same treatment. Each one was done in the pursuit of either power or wealth.

Nor do I buy the "pirates as men resisting the yoke of oppression" line in toto. I think some of that comes from the story of Captain Misson. This story, wonderful though I find it, has all but proven to be fiction designed to excite people to support the political opinion underlying the story. During that time, political views were hotly debated in coffee houses around England. Read through some of the pamphlets printed at the time in England and you'll find evidence of this. Misson's appears to be a story the author stuck in the second volume of his popular book to make a political point along the coffee house debate line. Seen today, however, I believe it colors the whole book (especially when taken with other small elements in the other stories). Since we no longer have rafts of political pamphlets and coffee house debates to adjoin this story, we think it has something specifically to do with pirates. So it suggests that they had a primary philosophy other than pure greed. In fact, I sort of wonder how we would view pirates today if that story had never been published.

Between my old eyes and the tiny type on this LCD screen, I thought I was opening a topic titled Suffering at PIP! :angry:

(The pub is closed. Suffered, we have.)

Could you say that decency in piracy can be attained by state sanctioned piracy?

People who sailed with approval of the state against enemies of the state are considered privateers, not pirates. (A fine line, to be sure.) If you search this forum for "privateers" you'll find more info on that. However, your example sounds to me more like a sailor turned pirate who found a government willing to protect him - thus becoming a privateer. As you suggest, one man's privateer is another man's pirate. (The Spanish certainly thought thus...)

Some would argue that pirates lived by an unwritten code of conduct however this is conjecture.

Some pirates had articles, some didn't. They dealt with day-to-day issues and what went on shipboard. (You can see more about articles in this thread.)

However, there was no universal "pirates code" - that's fictional.

As I said above (in one of my other IDs), I have no doubt that pirates did decent things in their lives. People are people. We just don't seem to have much in the way of recorded instances.

Yes, ok...but how does it prove that pirates were decent people? Just because certain locations benefited from the pirates' custom and activities doesn't mean that the pirates intended to benefit those locations. It actually says more about the places than the people who traded there.

That mafia enriched certain restaurants and social clubs and got them products at lower prices and shipping rates - but this says nothing about their being decent people. Heck, the Nazis brought fine art from all over the world to Germany - surely a great boon to the German people - but I doubt you'll find a lot of folks lauding them for their decency.

Jack was born a day late, couldn't be one of the twins.

I was born six months late, but I am one of the twins. (Brig said so.)