Ol Man From the Sea

Forgot were 2gal wood $149 G Gedney Godwin 2 gal wood $145 Jas Townsend 2gal wood $80, 2 gal tin $20 Smoke & fire 2 gal wood $48, 2gal brass $75 Panther Primitives 2gal wood $45, brass $50, tin $52 5gal barrel $86 note panthers prices are going to change soon!

I remember something about wood vs. Iron banded BARRELS, didn’t know it was about buckets too. Really a shame as period or not we should have something, even if its an ABC under canvas. After seeing the price of buckets, I regret asking that you buy one. I didn’t think they were that expensive. I also think that maybe we should donate them to the fort. That way they will be there for whoever needs them for camp fires (not cannon cleaning?) in the future. It might be cheapest to buy a 5 gallon barrel and cut it into two buckets? I kinda draw the line at “Rubbermade.”

short aside Is this what you mean? kettles with removable bails? They also have Fancy bails for above and now back to topic!

Practical note of caution. I bought a "ships lantern" last weekend much like the one in your picture but with flat glass for one side. Got home and tried a candle in it. Had to open the windows from the smell of burning oil. Turns out the lantern was made of steel not tin which is very shinny. I have a bad feeling that with the oil burned off that steel won't last long in the Key West air. Not to mention that I don't believe steel to be period. So if you buy one, look for metal that is bright and not dull (the one in the picture looks dull) or try a magnet. Are a few lanterns enough? or should we all try to have one? Long way to that head. Might even be pirates lurking about in the dark down there. William, as cookware is taken care of, and lanterns may be a personal thing, what about a fire bucket or two?? COOL you found a way to help with dinner and mind your store at the same time. Dinner at that time was, the main meal of the day, the only meal served aboard ship I believe, and eaten about one or two o’clock. So our arrangement is “period.” SUPER COOL As to what we will eat and who will cook it, I think we can wait till we are in Key West to decide. That big dutch oven can cook lots of things. If somebody has an idea to cook something it can't, then they should bring what they may need. Three additions if I may? 1)A kettle of hot water in the morning for tea, cocoa, magic porridge, or magic(instant) coffee? 2)Anyone needing to cook “after hours” need not worry about authentic cookware? (it is not cheap) 3)do we need a cap of say $7 or so on donations needed per meal?

HUH! sounds like assume to me Ok if we know a little bit more about what we are eating/cooking we will have more than an "implied belief" of what we need, and what is appropriate, to eat/cook it. Put that together with what Patrick has been saying in this thread about what we need, and what is appropriate, for camping, add some seasoning and a bit of Set dressing and we got us a pirate camp salad. I, um, mean list. This goes back to Patrick's idea that while a copper corn boiler is more period appropriate than a tin mug, it isn’t really appropriate for a careening camp. However, if I am only cooking for myself I’d be a fool (well I’m going to be a fool no matter what) to bring 18 pounds of cast iron pot. Now, if I need to bring both the heavy pot and the inappropriate little expensive one, because one night I’m cooking for the group and other nights we are all cooking for ourselves, and the fire isn’t big enough for all those big pots, we go from fool to DAMN FOOL. We also need to be aware that PIP has a problem with no shows. So perhaps everyman for him self is really the only way to go no matter how unreal it is. Group cooking? Everyman for himself? Something else?

If you think I am wrong about something please let me know, perhaps I'll learn something. Thanks! Thus, we need info from before then. The book said that before 1728 english warships were equipted with "a brick-built hearth with a single riveted copper boiler on top and a chimney." Now I don't care about the hearth or the chimney as they are staying aboard our make believe boat that is "just out of sight." What I do care about is that this indicates that there was not much cookware aboard ships in the GAoP. One large boiler is all they had. As opposed to say, six corn boilers, three dutch ovens, a couple of cauldrons, several fry pans and a civil war era tin cup. If everbody cooks for themselfs, this is what we will have and I don't feel it will be very authentic. It may be the best we can do, but it won't be authentic. Now, if we can get together and have one cook, or one cook per meal, or at least one person organizing the cooks mates, we can create a more period impression and use only one or a few large pots. So would people rather cook as a group, or is it to be every one for themselfs? Personaly, other than the authentic part, I don't much care as I like to eat in town. Or is my impression of authentic mistaken? If so what should it be? Again now is the time to pick nits if we can't make it right atleast we will know were we can improve.

Yes that Nelson, and yes he is past our date. However as the passage begins "At the beginning of the eighteenth century" and the next sentence talks about the change from brick to iron fire hearths in 1728, I think the info is spot on for our camp. Why the British Navy went with riveted copper when it seems everyone else was using cast iron I can't say. As Mercury is not a Navy ship I don't think we need to worry about the copper, though it would be cool. The part that is more interesting to me is that even ships of the line only had one pot for the crew. A large pot no doubt but only one. It also looks, from evidence in wills and such, that many colonial homes had but one pot at this time. Thus, I feel it a bit of a stretch for our pirate fire to be decorated with even half the cookware shown in your photo, but any one of them would be great. I am wondering if it should have a bail or legs?

First I need to apologize to Silkie, it wasn’t meant personal or anything, I just can’t resist being punny. Now with that out of the way, per Williams request, I will return this thread to being campy. The question was do we needed to worry about cookware and if so what would be authentic? The answer is HELL YES WE NEED COOK! So that leaves what would pyrates have had to cook in? “At the beginning of the eighteenth century....a brick-built hearth with a single riveted copper boiler on top and a chimney” answers Janet Macdonald in “Feeding Nelson’s Navy.” With substitution of cast iron for riveted copper, this is what would have been found in the average colonial home of the time. So ideally, we should have “a single riveted copper boiler” or at least a cast iron “boiler.” This would limit us to things like soups and stews, but with the exception of bacon , that seamed to be what people were talking about anyway. BTW Thanks Callenish for offering to cook for us dogs, but as a sutler your shop may not be that close to our camp and (I hope) the shop needs your attention more than we do. This doesn’t mean your not invited to join our mess. Anybody else volunteering to be Cook? Cooks mates? Scullion?

No more questions for now. I think that Silkie was squeaking about a baconfest that would not coincide with the original but would take place oh say a month and a half later, and was way way south, say within walking distance of as far south as you can go without a passport. Would squeaking about such a time and place make Silkie a "PIPsqueak" If I am right you already have your "host and a company to participate."

Baconfest? What is baconfest? Starting to sound like even I may not be eating town the whole time.

This thread pertains to GAoP common seaman’s sea chest. While at the Echo’s of the Past Trade Show I had the pleasure of meeting James Kimpel who has a collection of some 15 extant 18th century chest. Further, he has had the opportunity to examine, some times destructively, a number of other period chest and chest remains. Some are landsman’s chest but a few are seaman’s chest. Many have rounded tops, a few are six board, even some with rope grommets for handles. At least one is from very early in the century. I believe this man to be a very good source on the style and construction of common man’s chest for our period. I have an offer to go visit his collection in person but it is a full days drive from here and at the time his door was under 10' of snow, that will have to wait. To sum up my conversations with him; Early and late 18 century chest differed in the quality of the forging of the hardware. Landsman’s and seaman’s were built much alike at this time Sizes were in no way uniform, although often smaller than we would think. Most chest were of pine, some were of poplar. “Modern 3/4" wood is way to thick” Maybe ½" thick for the largest chest, but mostly around 3/8" some tops only 1/4" Boards were glued up. In fact one chest had a curved top that was laminated. Joinery was nailed butt joints. Nails were close, about every inch on smaller chest, on larger chest they are farther apart Bottoms were set up inside the front, sides and back Tills were usually set in dados, but a few were just nailed through the sides. All of the nailed tills are now missing. Chest could be leather covered or painted. (Milk paint I believe) All the chest he has seen have runners on the bottom. All the pictures of sea chest I’ve seen don’t? You say, nailed butt joints, boards glued up with hide glue, that won’t last. Aye, but these have lasted nearly three hundred years and here is how. First, after the boards were glued up they were sealed with paint, shellac, etcetera to keep moisture away from the hide glue. That is if a side of any board wasn’t glued or painted it was shellacked. Second, the nails on every chest he has seen were angled toward each other, some at rather steep angles others not so steep, which is why they didn’t pull out. Superman would see it this way. Built in this manner, a period correct sea chest using 7/16" thick wood, high enough to sit on (15" to 17" high), long enough to contain a short hanger and/or 15" barreled blunderbuss (about 31 3/4" inside), and meeting, or better just under, the airline max of 62" h+w+l could weigh a bit less than 20lbs. A smaller (more correct) chest that wouldn’t fit weapons would be even lighter.

Thanks Kass Unfortunately, 16 to 40 feet of hand sewn flat felled seams is enough extra work to move this project to the back burner for this year. I was thinking of making a period correct sail section to use as a tarp at Pirates in Paradise this year, but with everything else I need to do, and as slow as I hand sew, that becomes too much. I am still interested in any info, or where I might find info, on those extant sails though. Maybe machine sewn cotton using modern panel widths but period details would be good practice not to mention useful in the mean time. Again thanks

I have noticed that a sutler, who shall remain nameless, is selling hemp canvas that is not unlike what would have been used for sails and is almost 5' wide. Was canvas that wide around in 1700? Thanks for the help.

Funny but I was also just starting to wonder how period, for seamen/pyrates, a "corn boiler" would really be? This is a time were a colonial household may have little more than a kettle for cookware. A seaman, I would think, would mostly eat aboard or in a pub so not need his own cookware? However, individual cookware may be like tents, not period for seaman, but too useful to get away from. Group cooking might be a cool way to go. We would not need to worry so much about what seaman ate aboard as what people ate ashore. Silike, your prophecy of a menu thread may yet come true. Much to think on here :) Kinda on the same topic, If tin cookware is not so period is tin tableware also out?

well for faires even Nomex sewn with kevlar thread is acceptable. If you want historical best to look to Kass hint click on the frock coat and waistecoat patterns

The question mark after the “corn boiler” is because I’m not yet sure that I need or even want one, as I don’t plan to do any cooking. I always leave Key West wishing I had the chance to eat somewhere else or something more. One can only eat so much in one trip and the Keys have way more than that to offer. I want a plate etc. so I won’t have to be antisocial if there is some kind of group cook out. There are much better reasons to be antisocial than lack of tableware. Still it might be nice to boil some water for cocoa, oatmeal or soup etc. A question I have, can horn spoons be used to mix something into boiling water or will they lose there shape? The axe would serve both as a camp tool and as a boarding weapon, but again the question mark means that I’m “thinking” about one. A hand sewn hemp tarp has crossed my mind. However at the rate I hand sew, I will still need something for this year (and maybe next). A machine sewn hemp tarp “seams” silly to me. I ain’t sewing a whole tent. I still need to think on the tent or tarp question, and a small “baker” hasn’t been ruled out yet either.. As to the ground cloth, I am a bit concerned about smelling, and smelling like, linseed oil all week. A copper kettle does not look too hard to make. The tooling to make it though is more trouble than it is worth.

No time like the present is right. big trade fair this weekend and I ain't got no period camping stuff. Here is my shopping list so far: Tent or tarp hemp rope to rig above Iron stakes to tie above to belt axe to drive above into coralcrete ? Ground cloth wool blanket 2nd blanket to serve as a pad (or to cover my camprest) tin or Pewter plate tin or pewter bowl or mug ? already have jack mug pewter, horn, or wood spoon three tiened fork ? "corn boiler" ? Sea chest candle lantern This list seems to short I know I'm forgetting something, any ideas?

Use the right wool and it will be pretty cool. Um, as part of your pyrate thing I guess it will be cool whatever its made of. What I mean is you won't be hot. Um, maybe thats not what I mean either. Guess i'll quit now befor I dig this hole too deep.

Wow! Granma, I didn't believe you were really old enough for that job. Guess I need to learn to trust you a bit more. Anyway, a toast to ya CONGRATS!

Wow five of Kass's patterns! I've only got three so far and only one is likely to get to used this year. That is for a sleeved waistcoat for which I already have the wool and linen. My shirt is linen and according to Kass "pretty much spot on" but for PIP I think I'll need a second. I'll also need more socks. Breeches are more F&I but that’s ok for now. Shoes are terrible (from payless no less) but as it is a real big feat to fit my big feet, they may have to do. (no I’m not a poet, they aren’t “Long fellows” more like lunar lander pads) I am thinking about a belt knife and I lost my earing at rf2. Weapons are another story. My cutlass is mid 19 century, my dagger is mediaeval, and my firelock is a cheesy fake . Not sure what, but something needs to be done about all of them. As for period camping gear I have none, but that belongs in another thread. Fortunately the Kalamazoo living history trade show is this weekend.

a. 6 or 7 maybe more b. 1 c. More Historic d. I sail for escapism though I have no idea what I'd want to escape

Ain't yet met no shoe police, but all the police I have met will tell ya that your footwear must be comfortable. Which is good advise for Key West. Plan to do lots of walking.

FRUSTRATED, that’s the word. As I said I only looked at the book for a few minutes. At first, I found some statements that I wanted to be true. Then I started finding enough errors to be unable to trust anything. I found myself not wanting to read more because I could not trust it. My resulting frustration is what prompted this thread. I will say that my problem is with the book and not necessarily the author. I understand a little about editors and deadline etc. I didn't mean offence to your and Rumba's friend. Ya I didn't say that right, what threw me was calling calico "a pattern" Thanks! but they are less fun that way.

Atala my love: I not be the one ta be answerin' ya, but I've been around long enough ta help 'em out a bit. Denim would not be a first choice, better linen, silk or even hemp. To get a better answer you need to tell us more about the impression you are trying to make. Does yer friend want ta be a lowly seaman or a dandy of a captain, or something else? Lots a different ways to say pyrate love. So tell us, with what kind of an "accent" will your friend be sayin' it?

Atala my love: The fest goes from November 29 thru December 2 PIP webpage If your interested in joinin' the group for the trip down, West Palm would not be the best Airport. If your going alone it might be cheapest to fly all the way to Key West. However if you have never been to Key West, then the drive down the Overseas Highway is a must! :) Be sure to check car rental rates as they very alot at different airports. Hope to see you there till then all I'll have is your picture