michaelsbagley

Yeah, the method M.A.d'Dogge receomended is the one I have seen and heard the best results with. Using a harder wood is another solution, but probably much more expensive and possibly much more difficult to source as well.

Thanks for adding the additional images Capt. Sterling! I did dig up my bookmark of Foxe's images and went through them, most of the images are either too small or do not show the neccessary detail to prove or disprove the commonality of the elongated buttonholes. Some of the images almost look like they support it, others the opposite... I think I'll make the safe judgement call, make my waistcoat simpler, and hope that some more images will turn up at some point to give further credence to the commonality (or lack therof) of this type of buttonhole treatment on common mans and/or slop contract clothing.

I hugely appreciate all the feedback, other samples posted and thoughts on this, it has helped. Does anyone have any other examples of artwork or other resources that may continue to substantiate the use of elongated button-holes that are only partly functional and partly decorative? Particularily in period examples, especially on a common mans waistcoat or jacket. I just want to try and not make the "uncommon into common" by making my buttonholes in this fashion if the waistcoat depicted in the "Peep Show" is a one off. Although I may do the buttonholes in this fashion as a reproduction of this sample even though that was not where I was originally going with this garment. This line of thinking for me was started by another post-GAoP sample that tuned out tobe something other than what I thought it was, but now that I am seeing actual examples of what I was previously mistook, my interest in this has been renewed.

Yes, the detail in that painting is fantabulous! I am most interested in the buttin holes on the grey waistcoat... I am currently making a sleeved waistcoat for myself (in fact I am just hemming the edges and then I have only the buttons and buttonholes left to do), anyway I digress.... The buttonholes seem incredibly long/wide/large for the size of the buttons. The question I raised on the other forum, and will raise again here, (in a slightly differently worded manner), do you think these are just very wide buttonholes? Or do you think those may be normal sized buttonholes with extra fake buttonhole stitching to give the buttons an intentialy wider look? I'd love to hear any thoughts, idea or pet theories, or hard facts if anyone has any with regards to this.

Yeah... but is it from a private collection? I have searched for it to get a look at it if its in color, but haven't been able to find it... anyone got a link? Greg Good question Greg... it's gotta be in color, and it must be really sweet if The Peep Show is any indication! Does anyone know the date for the picture in the below link "The Peep Show"? The guy standing to the right hand side of the image grey jacket... There are some elements depicted in that waistcoat that are relevant to a question I had posed a short while ago in another forum. If the image is dated to the GAoP it could be of some help to me to get a possible answer to my question. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the kudos RumbaRue and Capt. Sterling! The petticote is the short version and not trained... Jessica preferred something easier to move around in than something with extra extravagance.

Hey BilgeMonkey (and anyone else who needs help), If you post your measurments and colour preferences, I might be able to help you out some garb wise (if you need help there). If you read This thread, specially towards the last few posts there was some discussion of bringing/making extra garb for those who may need it. I have a ton of spare fabric that is begging to be put to a good use like that (which I mention in that thread). You can post in the Pub (preferably in the clothing thread), or private message me if you prefer as to whether you need/want this kind of help and if so your measurments and/or colour preferences.

In case anyone is still interested in this thread... I found this link History of Tents Most of the focus of the linked web site is for early period stuff, but there is a decent amount of information on 17th century tents on this particular page of the web site. Mostly military purpose, so period correct, but possibly not correct for a naval or piratical context.

Okay, I have a decent camcorder... And I have been working on my garb, and will soon be working on my tarp tent... But I TOTALLY SUCK at videography... I can tape myself (Or get my girlfirend to hold the camera) sewing garb/tent or whatever (I will likely be doing some leather work as well), but should I just tape myself doing this stuff? Or should I explain what I am doing while doing it? It shouldn't take any significantly extra time to video myself making some of the stuff since I will be doing it anyway, but if I can get a bit more direction that would really help (*What's my motivation* in my most primadonna actress voice).... Advice on lighting and what kind of things are best to show/say would help me the most.

Thanks for the suggestion Capt. Sterling! I put some hobby store fabric buttons on it as a temporary measure, I will probably switch the buttons out for some white tin domed buttons in the not too distant future. I used the cheap poly-buttons so she could wear the outfit (even though the wasitcoat, proper stays, and proper shift are not yet done) at a festival last weekend. Here is how it looks so far.

I've never been to PiP myself, but if you read through enough of the threads there are plenty of suggestions all over the place about how to help make it cheaper.... There is a thread on car-pooling if that will help cut costs. There have been discussions on sharing cabs, buses, rental vehicles from the airport to the actual festival, plenty of discussion around making garb and or camp accoutrements... Ultimately, a set of garb, and an reasonable attempt at a period tent is more than enough to do PiP on the fly... One of the ideas posted on the "Getting Tentage Ready..." thread was to use a canvas drop cloth purchasable at a hardware store for somewhere in the range of $20... There were several other suggestions of varying costs made as well... My best suggestion for you is to take the time and carefully read through the existing messages on the existing threads, there is a lot of great ideas and suggestions. If there are specific budgetary concerns you might have that aren't covered already, I'm sure your not the only person that wouldn't want the question raised....

That depends....What do the characters look like?

Is anyone else as confused as I am about the last several posts?

Or do you beg the sea nymph to play your flute for you? (Get your mind out of the gutter, sea nymphs are rumouredly great musicians, escpecially the floutists).

They oppenned for ABBA, didn't they?

Mr Bagley, leave Cotton Mather out of it.....that old bloke did a good many uf us pirates in, partuclarly the crews of Bellamy, Kidd,and Tew. Okay sorry about that.... Poor choice of examples to make my point.... I'll go back to pretending to do some work at the office now. I almost expected someone to pipe up in their best shrill John Cleese voice. "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...."

I hate my complete inability to avoid getting sucked into discussions like this... Okay, HarbourMaster, you state that Islam spans half the globe. Why is that a problem? Islam isn't the problem, it's the extremists that are the problem. Your comments seem to hint that you believe that Islam is the problem (please correct me if I am wrong, I do not wan't to put words into your mouth), saying another religion is the problem is only another form of extremism. Sorry but the Christians killed just as many innocent folks as the Muslims did in the Crusades. The Crusades were about which religion controlled the holy lands, not about one religion killing the other, the killing infedels was just the propaganda to help fuel that particular war, and both sides used it, just as they do today (just one side doesn't seem to be as honest about it today). And if you think Christians aren't just as responsible for other innocent deaths throughout history, you might want to read up on the Spanish inquisition, Salem witch trials (although admittedly with a lower death count relatively speaking), hell good ol' Charlie Manson was screamin about Jesus and all of that as his lot conducted quite a few murders. Jonestown? Waco? Don't blame religions, blame extremists, there is a huge difference, yeah there may be more Islamic extremists in the world at the moment, but guess what, there are more Islamic peoples. If Christians or another religion were in the majority, there would just be more extremists of that majority.

Yeah, but are you sure charging the "Entertainment" is the best way to go about it? I know the re-enactors aren't the only entertainment, but they do add to the event. Cap'n Jake, I'm guessing you may not have been the one to make this call, but you may want to bring that point to bear to the folks who are calling the shots. I have been waffling over three different events for that weekend, and was just starting to lean towards Port Washington, now I'm leaning back another way. Not that one person makes a difference, but makes you wonder if anyone else may change their mind.

You could try linen thread. From what I've been told (which means this is potentially bad heresay type information), hemp and linen are almost identical as far as the way the fibres look and how the act. I know linen thread is a lot easier to find. Hope this helps!

I guess I was coming off a little too serious... I tend to do that sometimes... (too many times so I am told) As Patrick said, and I'm sure it has been posted several times in most of the threads about PIP, any reasonable effort will be great. But there are a few of us keeners out here that are trying to aim high (we have plenty of time to do so as we have started early enough)... I'm aiming to not have to upgrade as my stuff for futures years or other re-enactments as much as possible. So if I can make stellar stuff at the get-go, that is what I will be doing. Much of the stuff I make for this effort will see use both before and after PIP in other venues as well, which is why I am aiming so high. For those who don't have the time or resources, please don't let the insane efforts by those of us with too much time on our hands diminish what efforts you are willing or able to put into this, or make you feel like you have to try to put more into it than you reasonable have time for. Not everyone has the same amount of free time or the resources to sink into this as some of us do, and I'm sure all efforts will all be equally valuable and appreciated as contributions to making PIP a great event for everyone.

Yeppers, I got some sense cracked into my skull with my home made pair of Nunchaku as a stupid kid. (luckily no damage was done outside of a nasty bruise and a damaged pride from my friends laughing at me) Haven't picked up or tried to make another pair since. I'll stick to swords, they are safer because there are not as many moving parts.

Actually, to echo Blackfoot's sentiment - It's a shame that 32 lives were lost - ...it's just a shame that the 33rd one wasn't lost first. I like that quote (both quotes in fact).... Re: The potential "hot button" issue When Duchess said, that this is one of the most polite "gun control" discussion on a message board of this type was correct (within my experience). Whether that part of the discussion continues or not, it is a great testiment of the people here on their civility and maturity regardless of what their individual beliefs are. Ahhh, one of the underlieing cruxes of the matter..... And unfortunately, with the current level of science, be it medical or psychological, we are unable to treat the minds, so we are left by trying to regulate the physical world in the hopes of protecting ourselves from those who may not be mentally well. Yes there have been great leaps forward in psychology in the past century, but it will likely be generations or even centuries more before we can truly treat the mentally ill. Good early development (a very subjective topic) can also greatly attribute to good adult mental health (again a subjective matter), but would you prefer to impose stricter laws on physical belongings/tools, or tighter laws on the psychological development and health of people? What it is the better solution? Thought police, or permission to own potentially dngerous tools police? As Caraccioli so aptly put it, There are no correct answers, only different tacts, and neither tact really works, we can only try to apply a best guess to which tact to take and hope it works. And when we get it wrong (as we all inevitably do) hope that our chosen path works for us the next time, or try harder to find a comprimise between the quite often polarized choices, which in many cases, just isn't possible.

My bad, the stats I cited were very wrong.... It was supposed to be 1 death per 200,000 Canadians (not 1 death in every 200,000 deaths as I stated). etc. Anyway the source for anyone interested is this CBC news article. CBC News Article I agree with you completely Caraccioli, the wrongful acts of the few should not take away the liberties of the many. But I think that line of thinking leads only to the road of debating what liberties one needs versus what liberties one wants. Most discussion regarding needs versus wants also usually result ending up coming down to a core difference in philosophy.

No one has, but every time I have cited these types of stats in forums similar to this in the past, someone has tried to refute that... But your point is well taken, it was small of me to assume someone would, and I am sorry for that. And someone was able to win a large financial settlement against a large corporation for sticking a HOT coffee down their pants because they were being responsible for themselves. And this can lead to TONS of other citations of successful lawsuits for personal injury where the plaintiff was obviously responsible for their own actions? I do not mean to scoff at your rebuttal, but I am very prone to playing the Devil's advocate, and I beg that you do not take my doing so personally. and the sentiments that come with this are a matter of individual philosophy, and personal belief, not worth debating as the debates tend go in circles and it is easiest and best to politely agree to disagree. Ultimately my comments were the first step in diverting this thread away from it's true purpose, and I would like to apologize to everyone for that. Regardless of differing personal views on gun laws or philosophy or whatever, this is a tragic event, and the sense of loss and confusion on what happened is going to be massive, please forgive my diatribe, it was misplaced and probably has not place here.

I always hate citing statistics like this, because it winds up upsetting people more than making them think. About 1 out of every 200,000 deaths in Canada are gun related. About 8 out of every 200,000 deaths in the USA are gun related. (Like all stats, these are a few years old, but probably not greatly changed) Those are ratios, total populations are not a factor in ratios, so the argument that the USA has a population about 10 or 11 times greater than Canada does not hold water for the comparison. The main difference between Canada and the US that is a factor here, gun laws. Pistols are pretty much illegal in Canada (special permits with more red tape than is ever worth it can make a pistol legal in Canada), rifles are legal, but fairly regulated. Sorry folks, anyone who states that gun laws don't factor are kidding themselves. Stricter gun laws won't end this type of tragic event, but they can make an impact, and change the frequency of these types of events occurring. I am all for the freedom of responsible gun ownership, but I can also feel genuine in saying that stricter government regulation and tighter gun laws can be a factor in reducing gun related violence and crime.