michaelsbagley

Sparrow glove doesn't encompass his whole hand. Just the palm of it.

Both generally do wrap around the wrist.

Honestly, I don't see how a wrap would "protect" a hand against a sharp cutlass or saber.

I wasn't sure if it was only weapons related or not.

I thought I heard somewhere that it also had something to do with shipboard duties. What? I don't know.

ANY info would be appreciated as these people are utterly confused.

~Lady B

It's not so much as protection from a sword thrust, but the defensive manuevers talked about (if i am not mis-reading the posts) is that an opponents sword is swatted out of the way. When sword fighting (more fencing style) the tip of the sword is often waved around just out of range in an opponent's face to try and psych an opponent out or gain positioning. By swatting the point of the blade away, you (if you are lucky and quick about it) can possibly get a thrust in with the opponents blade out of the way. Does that make more sense? So if the sword fighting option is what it is supposed to be, it is there NOT so much as "armour", but as a mild safety defense to prevent scratches when swatting a blade out of the way.

And I think the other option you are talking about is a sailor's palm (used to reduce rope burn on hands?). There is a thread about sailor's palm somewhere in twill if memory serves me well.

No one has posted in this thread for some time so I thought I would give it a bump.

There is one Eastern US van-pool in the works. Callenish Gunner will be coming from North of Pittsburgh. I will be coming from just west of Philadelphia. Anyone considering PiP may want to consider the van-pool.

Although nothing has been set in stone yet, I briefly discussed joining this caravan/van pool with Callenish coming in from Columbus to meet in Pittsburgh.

It will be myself and my better half Jessica (assuming all goes well). It's still way too early to tell for sure, but the project I am currently working on is looking to be going into a bit of a lull at the time of PiP, so the odds of my being able to attend and join this caravan/van pool are looking very good (if you'll have us).

Just so you know, I own a minivan, and have offered (assuming I can make it) to drive and use my vehicle for the pool. Callenish mentioned that the idea of renting a vehicle had been played with, this could save all of those involved a fair chunk of change.

Awesome job Aminjiria!

I had started one of those for my other half, but had gotten stuck on the boning issue. After hearing you had good success with plastic boning I will probably follow suit and use that as well, I had previously thought of using metal boning, but that sounded like too much hard work compared to using plastic.

Patrick,

Where do you get hemp canvas? How does it wear compared to cotton canvas; is it hotter than cotton canvas? Does it need to have a lining? How does twill compare to both?

I really don't know the paticulars of the fabrics to make a good decision. I'm currently in Texas looking at moving to Portland, so temperature is an issue.

I'm not in any big hurry. I've got a seamstress that is going to go off of my current knee breeches (C&D Jarnagin Co.) , so it'll probably be machine sewn.

Thanks for all the input,

PP

Well I'm not Patrick, but I just learned this little bit of info a short time ago from someone here in this forum.

Canvas has two threads twisted together in one direction, and a single thread going across the two threads and is done in a simple weave.

Twill fabrics have two seperate threads going in one direction, and then one (or two) seperate threads going in the opposite direction, and is woven in a more complex manner than canvas.

There are probably more complexities that could be explained, but this is the short version of the answer.

As for how different does hemp canvas wear from cotton canvas.... Having not ever used hemp canvas I can only guess... But I would guess it would start out being stiffer than cotton canvas, but hemp would eventualy soften up as nicely. Hemp canvas would probably last longer and be more durable. This is just a guess, so please do not take this as gospel, I'm sure there are plenty of folks here that could provide information based on experience rather than theoretic guesses.

I'll be driving down to see the exhibit myself... Hopefully on the openning day.

If the museum decides it needs any extra volunteers, specially on weekends, let me know!

As for Will and Elizabeth, I've heard they ended that story line as they did as both Knightly and Bloom would not sign on to do a 4th movie ....

Or could it be... that they were not invited back for a 4th.....

Gotta save face you know.

Then why did Orlando Bloom publicly state on Jay Leno a few night ago that he would come back for more Pirates of the Caribbean movies? Just saying what the fans want to hear perhaps?

It's entirely possible I heard a false rumour.... Maybe he will be back for the next film (or other hypothetical future PoTC film).

actually, fulling is done with finished cloth while felting is done with the raw fibers (ie yarn). So a yard of wool gab is fulled while a knitted item is felted. That's what happens say, if you throw your favorite wool sweater through the wash/dry accidentally.

Essentially the process is the same though. You can machine felt by throwing your (knitted well over size) item in a hot washer with soap & a hot dryer. Drawback is that you don't really know how much it's going to shrink up doing it this way. Repeat as needed to get it felted the way you want.

You can also felt by hand. Essentially you wash in the hottest water you can stand, by hand, squeezing and rubbing in the way the machine would if it was doing the work. Dunking periodically into cold water helps to shock the sensitive wool fibers and keeps your hands from burning up. Then dry either flat or in the dryer (which has the less control drawback again).

The biggest problem with using the Knifty Knitter is that the standard size looms might not be big enough to make a big enough item so that it would still fit after extensive felting.

Good luck!

Thanks for clearing that up for me Chole!

Fulling versus Felting had perviously been described to me in an inconcise manner that left me with a bit of a mild misconception, and it is always nice to have things explained more accurately.

Also, you could try using the largest loom out there and either doubling the yarn or using super bulky yarn, then felting it down to a smaller size. That might help it look less like it came off a loom and more like a hand knit monmouth.

To me the felting is what really makes a monmouth though. It hides the knitting stitches well and make the hat water resistant and warm, all good things.                             

I see what you mean about felting it does look better how does one felt a monmouthcap?

Hmmm....

I would wait for CrazyCholeBlack to chime back in on this one... As she definately seems to know a lot more about fibres and fabric than I do...

But there is "Fulling" wool, (wash in hot water and then dry on hot) which fuzzies the item up (but usually shrinks it a fair bit as well).

And then there is "Felting" wool, which is pounding/grinding fibres together until they mush into a more solid subtsance.

Not trying to split hairs here, more trying to ensure I have the terms and concepts correct.

I don't know, Bagley - while it's true that Barbossa might randomly kill one or two of his crewmen, I have to say the odds of survival are still in his own crew's favor. It was Jack, afterall, that specifically went on a "soul harvesting" recruitment drive. With the exception of a handful of front-running castmembers, it seems virtually all of Sparrow's crewmen ended up as somebodies dinner, be it kraken or cannibal.

Oh, there's no doubting that either captain wouldn't cause the demise of a crew member to their own gain/survival (by direct or indirect action).... It's just with Jack the odds of an untimely demise would be higher, but better that you would see it coming.

I don't like suprises.

And please, Michael, I'm really not that fond of my last name... Not that I take offence by it's use, I just really prefer Michael.

kass, i've been following your threads here and have made 4 shirts ,3 cotton ,1 linen from your patterns but maybe i missed somthing, when making a linen shirt or shift wouldn't you also use linen thread? i'm finding it difficult to find linen thread and then what size thread ?waxed or unwaxed the company that carrys linen materal doesn't handle thread. did i miss that part? thanks, willie the shirt maker

Well I'm not Kass...

But you are correct, ideally for a linen shirt, you would want to use linen thread. And NOT the waxed stuff (the waxed stuff is more for tentage or other heavier duty uses in my opinion).

While not local to you (sorry I took the liberty of checking your profile to see where you are), there are two places that sell decent linen thread that do mail order I can refer you to,

Ursala's Alcove in Pennsilvania, have some great "Normandy Linen" thread I have been using lately. (Second item from the bottom on the link)

or

Smoke and Fire have some good garment weight thread that I have used in the past. I am sure enough searching will find you a few resources closer to home, but these are here if you want them.

As much as Barbosa tends to be a more decisive and effective Captain, I think I would prefer to sail under a captain that for the most part would not summararily shoot me/run me through/maroon me/otherwise screw me over, out of blind malice or just for sh1tz and gigglez.... As Barbossa would....

It actually took me some thought... but when weighing a possible random death by a strong decisive captain to following a bit of a buffoon... I'll folllow the buffoon in hopes of escaping stupid circumstances on a regular basis over wondering when the lead shot in the back was coming....

As for Will and Elizabeth, I've heard they ended that story line as they did as both Knightly and Bloom would not sign on to do a 4th movie ....

Or could it be... that they were not invited back for a 4th.....

Gotta save face you know.

Fair enough, they may not have been invited back as their story had run it's course and really hd no where else to go.

And I am in coplete agreeance with Fasle Ransom over the lighten up on the CGI.... Less see less archaic gods and monsters and more pirates....

I'm a little suprised by the feelings of sympathy for Norington.... I never cared much for the character, he slightly redeemed himself with his demise.... but one nice act still isn't enough to make me like his character. Although resurecting him could make him a decent antagonist (again).

Well, over all I generally liked it....

I thought the plunge further down the well of mysticism took away from the pirate feel of the movie and made it more epic fantasy (a la LOTR). Don't get me wrong, I love epic fantasy, but I really like pirate films too, and while the two can co-exist, I feel they are both better off as seperate genres.

One thing that I am a bit annoyed about, is that I found out the day after I saw the film, there was an extra scene AFTER the credits. I won't spoil it in case anyone is interested, but I can say the extra scene (from what I was told) while adding a very small bit to the story was superfluous and nto a make or break the story for thiose who like me rished out or were ruished out of the theatre.

As for Will and Elizabeth, I've heard they ended that story line as they did as both Knightly and Bloom would not sign on to do a 4th movie .... And as Depp and Rush have both expressed a willingness to do more of the PoTC films, you can bet that any future film will centre and focus on those two.

As for the level of violence... Did no one see the second film? Dead Man's Chest began with guys in cages having their eyes pecked out by crows/ravens.... If anyone who saw the 2nd film and has problem with violence, one only has to question why said person would bother with the 3rd film? Violence is NOT new to PoTC, unless anyone who had issues is very selective about the exact nature of the violence shown or implied.

Ack....

I just got most of the way done my first pair of the late period breeches only to discover that I apparently have "Thunder Thighs".

I was just about to start sewing the fly flap on, when I thought I would try them on for size... and I discovered that while they would have easily fit my waist, they could not fit over my thighs. The breeches have been hand sewn to this point, and are made of a nice brown 100% wool twill. Is there anyone who has a 34 inch waist and chicken legs that might be interested in them? They are currently about 80 percent finished, and that is how they wil stay unless or until someone expresses some interest in them.

So for my second attempt, I will still use the same size pattern for the waistband, but will try with a larger sized leg pattern and have a fuller leg with more of a gather.

Yeah, the method M.A.d'Dogge receomended is the one I have seen and heard the best results with. Using a harder wood is another solution, but probably much more expensive and possibly much more difficult to source as well.

Thanks for adding the additional images Capt. Sterling!

I did dig up my bookmark of Foxe's images and went through them, most of the images are either too small or do not show the neccessary detail to prove or disprove the commonality of the elongated buttonholes. Some of the images almost look like they support it, others the opposite...

I think I'll make the safe judgement call, make my waistcoat simpler, and hope that some more images will turn up at some point to give further credence to the commonality (or lack therof) of this type of buttonhole treatment on common mans and/or slop contract clothing.

I hugely appreciate all the feedback, other samples posted and thoughts on this, it has helped.

Does anyone have any other examples of artwork or other resources that may continue to substantiate the use of elongated button-holes that are only partly functional and partly decorative? Particularily in period examples, especially on a common mans waistcoat or jacket. I just want to try and not make the "uncommon into common" by making my buttonholes in this fashion if the waistcoat depicted in the "Peep Show" is a one off. Although I may do the buttonholes in this fashion as a reproduction of this sample even though that was not where I was originally going with this garment.

This line of thinking for me was started by another post-GAoP sample that tuned out tobe something other than what I thought it was, but now that I am seeing actual examples of what I was previously mistook, my interest in this has been renewed.

Yes, the detail in that painting is fantabulous!

I am most interested in the buttin holes on the grey waistcoat... I am currently making a sleeved waistcoat for myself (in fact I am just hemming the edges and then I have only the buttons and buttonholes left to do), anyway I digress.... The buttonholes seem incredibly long/wide/large for the size of the buttons.

The question I raised on the other forum, and will raise again here, (in a slightly differently worded manner), do you think these are just very wide buttonholes? Or do you think those may be normal sized buttonholes with extra fake buttonhole stitching to give the buttons an intentialy wider look?

I'd love to hear any thoughts, idea or pet theories, or hard facts if anyone has any with regards to this.

It's Willem van Mieris, 1709

Yeah... but is it from a private collection? I have searched for it to get a look at it if its in color, but haven't been able to find it...

anyone got a link?

Greg

Good question Greg... it's gotta be in color, and it must be really sweet if The Peep Show is any indication!

Does anyone know the date for the picture in the below link "The Peep Show"?

The guy standing to the right hand side of the image grey jacket... There are some elements depicted in that waistcoat that are relevant to a question I had posed a short while ago in another forum. If the image is dated to the GAoP it could be of some help to me to get a possible answer to my question.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the kudos RumbaRue and Capt. Sterling!

The petticote is the short version and not trained... Jessica preferred something easier to move around in than something with extra extravagance.

Well Callenish, if your offer is serious then I just might like to take you up on it. I've never participated in a period encampment before, but I can promise that my garb doesn't consist of sequins, velcro, or anything that melts over a candle 

Hey BilgeMonkey (and anyone else who needs help),

If you post your measurments and colour preferences, I might be able to help you out some garb wise (if you need help there). If you read This thread, specially towards the last few posts there was some discussion of bringing/making extra garb for those who may need it. I have a ton of spare fabric that is begging to be put to a good use like that (which I mention in that thread).

You can post in the Pub (preferably in the clothing thread), or private message me if you prefer as to whether you need/want this kind of help and if so your measurments and/or colour preferences.

In case anyone is still interested in this thread... I found this link History of Tents

Most of the focus of the linked web site is for early period stuff, but there is a decent amount of information on 17th century tents on this particular page of the web site. Mostly military purpose, so period correct, but possibly not correct for a naval or piratical context.

Okay, I have a decent camcorder... And I have been working on my garb, and will soon be working on my tarp tent... But I TOTALLY SUCK at videography...

I can tape myself (Or get my girlfirend to hold the camera) sewing garb/tent or whatever (I will likely be doing some leather work as well), but should I just tape myself doing this stuff? Or should I explain what I am doing while doing it? It shouldn't take any significantly extra time to video myself making some of the stuff since I will be doing it anyway, but if I can get a bit more direction that would really help (*What's my motivation* in my most primadonna actress voice)....

Advice on lighting and what kind of things are best to show/say would help me the most.

Thanks for the suggestion Capt. Sterling!

I put some hobby store fabric buttons on it as a temporary measure, I will probably switch the buttons out for some white tin domed buttons in the not too distant future.

I used the cheap poly-buttons so she could wear the outfit (even though the wasitcoat, proper stays, and proper shift are not yet done) at a festival last weekend.

Here is how it looks so far.

I've never been to PiP myself, but if you read through enough of the threads there are plenty of suggestions all over the place about how to help make it cheaper....

There is a thread on car-pooling if that will help cut costs. There have been discussions on sharing cabs, buses, rental vehicles from the airport to the actual festival, plenty of discussion around making garb and or camp accoutrements...

Ultimately, a set of garb, and an reasonable attempt at a period tent is more than enough to do PiP on the fly... One of the ideas posted on the "Getting Tentage Ready..." thread was to use a canvas drop cloth purchasable at a hardware store for somewhere in the range of $20... There were several other suggestions of varying costs made as well...

My best suggestion for you is to take the time and carefully read through the existing messages on the existing threads, there is a lot of great ideas and suggestions. If there are specific budgetary concerns you might have that aren't covered already, I'm sure your not the only person that wouldn't want the question raised....