michaelsbagley

What the heck are you making that involves 148 buttonholes? Or are you making sailor's jackets for a dozen people? As much as I would love to help you, I don't foresee a trip to the cheeseland area any time in my near future.

Hey all, In the spirit of me constantly making almost everything too small the first time, I am offering my first attempt at the striped ticken breeches for sale. They will fit a 32 inch waist perfectly, or could also fit someone with a 30 inch waist without being too loose. I traced out the wrong size pattern when I made them, which is why they don't fit me and why I am now going to sell them. They have been sitting around unfinished for months, and I have no use for them, so hopefully there is an early 18th century pirate or nautical re-enactor out there who wants or can use them. These are accurate to the 1706 or 1717 British Admirality Slop contracts (same quote in both contracts). You can see a finished pair of these breeches in the photo of me below. I am asking $100 (they are Hand SEWN after all) and will include shipping within Continental North America (I will ship internationally at buyers expense). The pair I am selling will be completed with your choice of either... True black linen thread button holes Or charcoal linen thread buttonholes (I leave the choice of how literal you want to take the slop contracts to you) Also the choice of True Black linen fabric covered wood buttons Or Charcoal wool fabric covered wood buttons Or brass metal buttons (in case you want to veer off the slop contract slightly) I will finish the breeches and get them sent out within a few days of an agreement to buy and payment (I prefer PayPal, but willing to discuss other options). Post here, or private message me or email me with questions, or interest to buy. They are complete except the buttonholes and buttons.

All joking aside... I thought about it.. And thought about it a lot... They didn't even alow cell phone use in the museum when the exhibit was on display in Cincy. I had even considered bringing a camera and taking pictures despite the rules, but Jessica (Kate Souris) was insistant that I not get her camera confiscated, so I decided against it. Maybe those out east will get lucky and the "no cameras" thing will have been a Cincy museum rule, and not a rule that will travel with the exhibit.

Another good thread to read through, is the Getting Tentage ready for PiP... While the thread is mostly about tents, there are good tidbits about other elements of the camp in there. It is a LONG thread though.

Thank you Chole! I hope that after doing thaqt many buttonholes I would be at least alf decent at it. Since I got the battery of the camera charged up today, I was able to get the other photo off of the camera. This picture I feel gives a better impression of the coat over all.

Smoke and Fire company sell a few different decks, This Page has two different decks from the American Revolution War period. And This Page has three other decks, one from the 1750's, and two from the lae 16th century. I've seen other places that carry other decks from other periods, but that is the only online source I know of off the top of my head.

Okay, detail photos of the buttonholes and buttons. if you would like the detail from a different angle or anything let me know.

Thank you both (Cheeky and Sterling) for the compliments. To answer your question Cheeky, those are wool fabric buttons. No cores. The fabric is so heavy and thick, there was no way for me to cover a wooden core and keep the buttons as small as I need them to be with that many button holes. I packed the buttons fairly firmly, so they hold really well. I'll try and take a close up photo later today or tomorrow, but the camera batery died, which is why I could only get the one photo of the coat. I was really aiming for a slighter angle on the photo.

Although I did not make this as a part of the group project... I thought re-surfacing this thread would be the most appropriate way to show off the new coat. Made from the Reconstructing History pattern (of course). The outer fabric is 100% wool, in what I would call a ochre or mustard coloured "wool broadcloth", the lining is a charcoal coloured tropical weight 100% wool. The stitching is all done with natural linen thread, the buttonholes are all done with coloured linen thread (I tried to match the wool but didn't quite get it perfect). The buttonholes are all hand sewn, and there is 116 of them. 10 = 5 on each cuff 18 = 9 on each pocket flap 40 = on the front closure 48 = 16 on each of the three vents (sides and rear vents) Not exactly the best picture ever, but it was late, and it was the best I could do at the time...

Thank you Misson for bringing that point up! There has been quite a few people that have mentioned an interest in metal work, so please don't let my being the first to jump all over that make you feel like you can't be a blacksmith as well. Truth be told, as this will be my first PiP (although it should have been my second) , I will probably want a lot of time to stroll around and soak it all in. For the most part I would prefer to portray random title-less general sailor and pirate of no great account. I will enjoy the few hours a day I get at the forge and playing the smith, but I don't want smithing to be my sole experience at PiP, as many others may not want any one particular title to dictate their entire PiP experiences.

I've not seen any proof against the existence of metal grommits or eyelets.... But I have not seen any evidence for them either. As far as I know eyelets were used (speaking in general here, not about tents), but period eyelets were sewn, kind of like a buttonhole, but round. There is really not much evidence about tents of the period at all. I've found written references to them, but no good descriptions or details pictures, so for tents your guess is as good as anyones. To answer your question a bit more directly, I would suggest and advise using ties over grommits.

I second the vote for Mr. Wake as captain... If we are to have a captain, I would more happily line up behind someone I know (albeit only digitally) than someone I have only heard of in the first post on this thread.

Aha... I found this some months ago, posted it to a forum that has since been deleted, then couldn't find it again... And just found it today while going through my massive list of bookmarks... Anyways, if you scroll down the page to about two thirds of the way down, there is a recipe dated to the late 17th century, that was translated into english in the early 18th century, for madder red dyes. Madder Red Dye recipes

That's the one! For some reason it surprised me that they would have called someone the "super" anything in the 17th or 18th century. I don't know why. It's all those late 20th cenutry comic books we all read as kids that make it hard for us to believe that anything mundane was ever called a "super" something in history... Picturing a cargo with a red cape flying next to the galleon...

Misson, great info on the purple, it does confirm that it was used. But the citation doesn't give much indication as to it's commonality or whether it was as I suggested an affectation of the wealthy or not.... Is there more there that might shed light on that? As for trusting images, I've heard that argument before, and to a degree agree. One of the areas I see that argument most stongly used is for, is the French and Indian War era (about 30 to 40 years post period for us). The blue on French uniforms is a hotly debated topic. The limited archaeological evidence seems to support that indigo was used (producing a navy blue or dark denim blue), but the period art shows a more sedate almost faded medium blue (which might have been painted with a colour similar to indigo and faded over the years to the lighter blue?). Also the pigments used in paints are often different than the pigments used in dyes, as dyes have to blend and hold into the fabric to work, and paint pigment just has to be suspended in the medium (usually oil). Many ground stones and soils that wouldn't be able to stain a white peice of cloth worked great for paint colourings. On the other hand, completely discounting the pictoral evidence is a folly in the other direction. I have seen olive and other medium greens produced using primitive techniques (at various Dark Age re-enactments over the years). While the techniques of the GAoP would be much more refined than the methods I have seen used, to doubt for some reason that the colours became unavailable for some reason seems to be too far of a stretch. Green dyes, from what I have seen are most commonly derived from plants, and usually common plants at that, so extinction of source would be unlikely. One green I have seen produced frequently through primitive methods, is a rather bright lime green. This colour was produced using the plant "Common Broom" and a copper mordant (dye bath brewed in a coppper vessel) in a nuetral water (distilled water). I have heard that going more alkaline (adding alum) can darken the green some, but have yet to witness that first hand. In case anyone is interested, common broom done with an iron mordant produces and almost true yellow. P.S. Sterling, you were posting at almost the exact same moment that I was, so I didn't see those samples before I posted this.... Great pics!!!

Funny, I asked that exact same question when I first saw that image almots a year ago... And the answer as kindly shared by Barmy John

Hey Quartermaster James, Period correct greens... Anyone's guess... My guess which is pretty much stolen by me from many of the more knowledgable people that came before me here, is that any green that is NOT neon would be fine... With darker or brighter greens being most likely colours worn by the more affluent. I took aquick look back through the archives, and this is what I have fouind image wise. From Foxe's archives. This could be grey, or it could be a pale green... I'm usually pretty good with colours, but that images just plays fin tricks with my eyes. Another one (again from Foxe's archive), this appears to be a common sailor, and looks to be a medium hunter green. Link to image I linked to the above image as it is huge, and I didn't want to flood the page. The guy seated in the lower right hand side of the picture is wearing what I would call a hunter green, and is what I would call a commoner or working class man. Also note, the person holding open the right side of the display cabinet, while wearing a brown outer coat, it has a tear in the sleeve, revealling what I would call an olive green garment (possibly a waistcoat?). HJope this has helped answer your question to a point.

After spending a month and a half in Canada, I am back home... And I have been looking through the "Living and Working in the Seventeenth Century England" CD Rom, and oh my... There are lots of goodies on it... Plenty of images of various blacksmithing tools. The sketches are pretty basic, so fine detail is not present. But the images give more than sufficiently good views of the items to get a solid impression of what the tools look like. And Misson, there is a fair bit of medical stuff in there as well. If there is anything in particular you are interested in, please let me know and I will email you the relevant images/quotes. Thanks again Hurricane for mentioning this find of yours. I am VERY please with my copy of this.

You made it past the childhood diseases, the religious wars, the epidemics, and your neighbors' sheep dogs. Die peacefully in your bed. Die in bed? Me? I always thought it would be a duel or a sword fight.... I better be doing something interesting in bed to cause me to die peacefully...

Had I known I could get it in Canada, I could have ordered it from there, saved on shipping, and had it delivered to a friend or family's place, and could have been happily perusing it for the last month! I guessed much of the info contained would be a bit early for use for GAoP, but I have been starting to look at re-enacting various other parts of the 17th century as well, so I thought it would be the best resource for that... Still, it looks like a great resource and I can't wait to have a good look through my copy. Thanks for mentioning it in the first place Hurricane, it sounds great!

Actually, I noticed Hurricane mention this publication on another thread in Twill some weeks back... And promptly went out and ordered a copy for myself.... It arrived promptly within a few days of my ordering it (even though I ordered my copy from the UK through Amazon), but it was delivered to my home in Columbus.... And I have been in Toronto for the entire last month... So I won't actually get to see it and go through it until I get back home next week....

The easy answer to period colours is, that dyeing technology by the Pirate era had advanced enough that just about any non-neon could be made... The caveat to that is, many of the more interesting colours were rather expensive to produce, so it is more of a matter of what you are trying to portray... If you are going for a more average impression, I would probably suggest staying away from purples.... But if you are going with an more upper class portrayal, I see no reason to not use purple. I really don't know a lot about GAoP dyeing, I actually know more about Viking age colours and dyeing. From my limited knowledge I believe the more common colours in the GAoP would be, brick red (not a true red or crimson), indigo (blue jean blue), any earth tones (browns, tans, beige's), etc. etc. I'm sure a thorough glance back through the archives of Twill would show you many period images of various classes of people, it would be pretty easy to get a good feel for period colours that way. About linen, traditionally linen does not take dye well. It is easy to dye linen with modern chemical dyes and get true colours, but in the period not so much... I would almost more recommend going with a silk for the outer layer if you are going to use a more brilliant colour. Probably not a very good answer, but I hope it helps.

Theoretically.... Sure.. Realistically... No... Most of those parts look cast, which is a very different process than smithing. I have seen and heard of smiths with the level of ability to make pieces that ornate through blacksmithing, but they are rare and rather expensive to hire... But I know my modest skills come no where near that level. Are there any more simply shaped objects that your medicine chest may require? Nice looking saw though... I could conceivably make the blade portion of something like that, just not the handle portion, which is what I am guessing you are in most need of.

For those who are interested in ships or boats... While I was searching for something else, I staggered across a reference to flat bottomed battoes. Up until today my general view on Batteaux or Battoes was that they were an innovation of the mid to late 18th century. While I would guess pirates did not use batteaux or battoes, this does seem to indicate that they were used in the later portion of the period! Citation is dated to June 21/1711 and can be found http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.as...px?compid=73862 Emphasis on the relevant text added by me. And now here is a link to a set of plans for a batteau dated to 1758... While these plans are again post period, we can prove that batteau were used in the period, and how much could the design really change in 40 years? Specially considering I have found other similar plans for batteau dated to the early 1800s, that do not seem to differ from the 1750s model at all. Article and plans diagram about a 1758 batteau And a Article and diagram of a revolution era batteau or battoe