michaelsbagley

Not to be defensive, but only to carry the discussion on... I fully agree an event organizer (no matter what individual or group) has the right to set standards and stick by them. But I do believe an organizer(s) that sets the bar too high is setting themselves up for a small private party or failure. I tend to approach re-enacting from the more community angle... And pushing back on organizers to allow for beginners or some flexibility on authenticity is the responsibility of those whose opinions they are most likely to trust.. Those who are the most experienced and have the best gear or knowledge of the period. If all organizers are hearing from those they trust is, this and that only should be allowed and this that and the other thing should never be allowed (or other similar statements that would exclude most or all beginners).... Well the event organizers will find themselves relying on the advice of those trying to create a small elite rather than a larger pool of passables and some elites. Flexibility often does drive off some purists, and it is up to every event organizer to make the decision as to where to draw the line and what end of the spectrum they want to sacrifice. And whether they want to set their event as a growing event that encourages beginners, or as an event on the other end of that spectrum. I see your points Sterling, but MTA is perhaps a poor example. For those who don't know, MTA=Military Through the Ages, and as the name implies it is a time-line event with lots of different periods. It's a fair bit easier to get a big event when one is drawing the best of many time frames. Trying to get an event anywhere close to that big with a single time period, specially one that isn't as popular as most others (such as the 17th century) couldn't be any more different. And I am trying to make my point based on the premise of setting up events in a niche or fringe re-enactment era, not a big or popular era, or time-line scenario. All of my posts in this thread should be read with the niche market re-enactment scene in mind to avoid interpreting my comments in an apples to oranges manner.

Absolutely true of events with formal organizers. Unfortunately not true of all events, many events are organized by the participants, and the participants as much input and drive the event as much as the organizers do. Again, here is where there is a big divide between small 17th century events, and pirate festivals. Adding to my last statement, if someone is having a party, and all the potential guests say they'll show up if it is casual, and the host demands it is a black tie or nothing deal... Where does that leave the party? Re-enactors drive the events a great deal more than many event organizers like to admit. I think M.A.d'Dogge has impressed that point a great deal in some recent black powder regulations discussions (one of the Paynetown threads? with regards to flash pan covers?). Event organizers can ask for or demand things to a point, but re-enactors make or break the event, and given a strong enough push back, can have a event rule altered or changed or made flexible enough... Or an event organizer can be inflexible and drive many participants away and kill the event... Whether slowly or quickly would be the only question in that case. There are two sides to event organization, and BOTH sides make a huge difference. Where a statement comes from can make a big difference as to how it is interpreted... I think a lot of the defensiveness here comes from the fact that there are no Sea Rats on this forum to speak for themselves. And I believe those being defensive here may have no idea of what, if any relationship there is between Hawkins and the Sea Rats... whether it be a good relationship, no relationship, or bad blood, only Hawkins and the Sea Rats can speak to that, and as far as I know, only one half of that equation exists here on the pub, and the rest of us should probably leave that alone for them to resolve, IF any resolving needs to be done. Was busy typing this when the split happenned.. Please feel free to move this to the appropriate place! Sorry about making more work for you!

All very good points Hawkyns... How does one draw the line? What level of detail can we be flexible on that the public won't notice? But a contrarian could easily point out (and PiP is a great example of this), is that when the newer folks get out in a flexible environment that has some good solid re-enactors, they often begin the process of improving. I don't want to name names or point anyone out, but there are a good many folks on this forum that started out as more stereo-typical pirates that have in a year or less put together some of the better portrayals out there. I know the pirate festivals that have re-enactor areas are much different creature than the living history focused events that 17th century re-enacting usually entails... But a lot of good can be done by learning from that example, or at least I believe so. If there were a ton more 17th century events, it would be likely that some would go the more flexible route, and some not... But with the small pool of events there seems to be, that doesn't seem to be a realistic option.

In the spirit of dragging this discussion more back on topic... Hawkyns, I don't particularly disagree with you on getting it reasonably well together before doing a new period, but in that same breath I have to point out that a good deal of lassitude needs to be granted for the more fringe re-enacting periods. For most mid to late 18th century, there are so many people doing them, those events can afford to set the bar reasonably high and encourage good research and kit development before coming out... But for most 17th century events, there are so few people that do it well, that a good deal of flexibility probably needs to be granted until the scene grows... Or quite frankly, I don't believe it ever will. Not having been to a great deal of strict 17th century event, my opinions may be slightly skewed, but one thing I have noticed, is the average age of a 17th century re-enactor, it seems to be a lot higher than most other eras I have been in contact with. Have you considered the "old school" 17th century re-enactors may be holding to a standard that few to no newbies are willing to try to reach? Perhaps relaxing a bit might help breath some new life to earlier period re-enacting. Like I said, I'm not heavily immersed in the 17th century scene yet, but I have been around the block once or twice. Realistically, this comes down to a quantity versus quality debate, and different people are going to set their opinions in just about every shade of grey on this one.

There is a location not too far from me, so thanks for that suggestion... They don't carry brass rivets, but the alluminum or steel may come in handy! And they seem to have a good selection of those and copper. I did manage to get brass rivets from the place i posted the link to in my last post... R.J. Leahy Co., and they work good, but they have a thicker shank than I am used to which only makes them ever so slightly more difficult to cut... But a new cutting tool given to me by Silas Thatcher has made that ever so slight annoyance disappear!

Is that a "No, you don't mind" and/or a "No, they can't use my photos"? Or perhaps the other way around? Mission, I believe you and your camera took the most photos at the bar, so they would likely be most interested in your collection.

On a similar note to Mark's question, the R-Bar Arena also would like to know if those who took pictures there would mind if I passed them along for them to use for promotional stuff for next year?

We'll be back down at the ship in the next week or two for the planning meeting for the Haunted Santa Maria thing for Halloween. I think there is a planning meeting in the next week or so there. If you need us to look for them sooner, I am sure someone can take a quick jaunt down to check it out for you.

On a slight tangent, inspired by a project I started but could not finish (relocation), and by some encouragement by Kian McBrian... I am about to embark on making some Cyser (mead meets hard cider). I went out to a near by apple orchard on Sunday, and with the help of the wife purchased a bunch of gallons of raw apple juice (unfermented cider). A few weeks ago, the wife surprised me by taking me to a "Honey Festival" in the next township over, so I was able to buy a whole bunch of nice dark honey for a pretty good price... And in doing so, I discovered the guy that owns that particular business resides within a couple of miles of where I live, so I should now be able to get a lot more honey at decent prices without having to go out of my way to find farmer's markets or other places where honey can be bought in bulk for cheap. The recipe I will be using is mostly derived from the below book. I will be using 3 pounds of dark wildflower honey (from a friend who lives up in Northern Ohio), 5 pounds of med-dark wildflower honey (from the local guy), 4 gallons of raw apple juice (cider), 1/2 pound of chopped dates, 1/2 pound of chopped raisins, 1 pound of dark brown sugar, and the usual assortment of yeast energizers and nutrients. I haven't selected the type of yeast I will be using yet, but it will likely be a yeast geared to white wines. Hopefully it will turn out well... Unfortunately I won't know for at least a year. Love making this stuff, just wish it didn't take so long!

That is awesome stuff RenFairPirate! Thanks for sharing! One question I have about this, how many castings does one tent to get out of a mold before the plaster degrades and the detail starts to get washed out? And I love how you explain how to do it all with household items or stuff easily found at the local hobby store. For anyone that tries this, another source of metal is plumbing solder. At about $12 per pound at the local hardware store, it is comparably priced to the casting metal one can buy, but much easier to find... Proper casting metals are generally 90% tin, 2% copper, and the remaining 8% is usually bismuth or antimony (or a blend of the two), most plumbers solders are around 80% tin, 2% copper, with the rest being antimony or bismuth or a blend... While the 10% difference is enough to make the metals act differently slightly, it is still possible to do some decent casting with solder, you just tend to wind up with a bit more slag to skim off.

If he would like, I'll do the Sunday Trash run with Renè.

Yeah the English praise beer as the best, as do most of the other more heavily puritanical/protestant influenced countries (Netherlands, Germany etc.), but the Latin/Catholic countries (France, Spain, Italy etc.), it is wine all the way! Amazing how much alcohol consumption of the period ties into period religion and ethnography. Of course then you compare the climates of the more protestant/puritan influenced countries to the Latin/Catholic countries and also realize the climate in the Catholic countries is better for producing wine, and the climates in the Protestant countries are better for grains like barley used in beer... And then you have to consider was there an element of nationalistic commerce protection involved as well.... It's almost dizzying when you start to consider the many different angles.

I don't know how much effort you want to put into this, or how much you are limited by the size of available drop sheets... But adding some overlap on the opening panels (marked #4 on your design) can and will make a huge difference if you ever get caught camping out in the rain. I think most commercial tents have about 8 inches (+/-) overlap. It can be done two ways.... Sewing in an additional flap, or extending each panel so they actually over lap which would mean extra layers to sew through where they meet towards the peak. But it looks great!

I will take "Fri Cleaning Detail: 1830"... I will sign up for another slot or two of some other functions, I just need to hammer down our arrival and departure times better before committing to anything else.

More photos from the event, these are from the collection of Count D'Booty and Roasbella.

Don't use any of the pics with Stynky on them.. He may see that as justification to take it...

There are some pics starting to show up on Facebook... It is difficult to re-post those here.. But his one was very much worth the effort. I think Trish took this photo, although it could have been Shannon.... Our very own Mission engaging in a boarding action!

A new discussion thread for pics and tales... For when we have all recovered.

The below is the one... I think I paid like $12.99 or thereabouts for it... So even if it is not complete, it was still a good deal. Link to Barnes and Noble for the actual book

All REH's Conan in one volume? Or one of the volumes of the three volume set that is in print right now? Awesome! I loved ERB as a kid. He was in my top five authors. Maybe even third, after Tolkien and Niven. I have all the Mars stuff, in both paperback and hardback. I love that stuff. So much so that I'm very tempted to purchase these. It was a pretty big book picked up off the discount table of the local mega-book store (Barnes and Noble?)... I haven't started reading it yet, so it may not be complete... I just recall grabbing because something on it gave me the impression it was complete. If it is partial, I'll still enjoy it, although I will be disappointed by the lack of completion.. I am a bit of an obsessive when it comes to completion-ism. I think the ERB Venus series is the one I hooked onto most in my teen years... I think I read one or two of the Mars series as well though.

Lately I have been on a early to mid 20th century pulp fiction kick... I am currently reading a graphic novel anthology of the Solomon Kane comics (not sure if it is a complete or best of anthology), but I also picked up a complete anthology of the Robert E. Howard "Conan the Barbarian" stories, and an anthology of the best of Edgar Rice Burroughs stories... I've read many of the above when I was a teenager, so I am guessing this is driven by some form of nostalgia.

There is an arts and crafts festival going on at the other side of the River, so those not participating on the kidnapping of the bride will have some entertainment... Well that and the Director of the Arts Festival contacted me today regarding some cross river interplay.... They are very much wanting a visit by the pirates and are willing to help a great deal with advertising for an appearance by some of us. The arts festival runs Friday evening, Saturday all day and evening, and Sunday until about the same time as the event will end. For those who remember the arts festival from last year, there is also a floating fire thing going on... If possible the would like to include some pirate into that (pending volunteers)... However, this will be going on at the same time as when the Arghhh-Bar will be getting going. And as a humourous tie-in.... Isn't this the art festival responsible for Mission's secret alias of Colonial Boy? (or was it colonial man?)

And of course there is the old standby of mead... While I haven't come across a lot of period references, I have found a few (IIRC the "English Housewife", 1680s edition mentions it). Currently I have some peach mead and blueberry mead, and I would not mind donating a couple of bottles to the cause (I'm more willing to part with the peach than the blueberry though)... I also have a large supply of cherry wine (both semi-sweet and dry). The peach mead is really good, the blueberry is also great (but both will get better with age). The cherry wine is palatable, but out of the three, it seems the most in need of aging. I'll bring some cherry wine as I have lots to spare, which will leave me plenty to age until it is just right (maybe next Pip, or the one after it?). The wife even made some nice labels (although they are more modern looking labels and in modern standard wine bottles). Let me know if any of this interests you Hurricane. Worst case scenario, if Sangria is period (or close enough), I am sure the cherry wine could make a very good sangria.

Gee Mickey is math so different in Canada than the US?? Take 90 campers and take away 50% ,,,, hmmm gives 45 campers... damn I was off by 5...hence the 40 (?)... gee and I didn't even have to look that up...just counted folks off the top of my head... I have no interest in arguing math... "Take 90 campers and take away 50%" Yep, that is 45... But if we want to get nit-picky... I think the actual roll call was 96 or something like that... But since I was ball parking numbers, I didn't care to look it up. And still haven't looked it up, as 90-ish is good enough for me. Hurricane, while the things said in this thread come as as complaining.... I think you are missing the point. People are used to change, although most tend to resist it in one way or another... I think the point is that change should be handled with delicacy not a heavy handed "If you don't like the changes, don't go"... Many of us travel great distances at great personal expense (and personal expense isn't just money, it is time and other things as well). Whether the fort or the festival is profitable or not... We are working and playing to try to make it so... Do you think addressing volunteers, and not just volunteers, but volunteers that go through great personal expense to help out in such a heavy handed manner? Sorry but if them that are herding the cats can't handle using some mild diplomacy, and appreciative manner of addressing those that help (in any manner), then something is wrong. I don't help with the org, because I know I don't always have the patience to be diplomatic with so many differing personality types... While I know it can be stressful to cat-herd numbers like this, those who have stepped up to the plate need to hold themselves in check... Or find someone with the time, patience and gift for dealing with many differing personality types (which I freely admit is not me).