michaelsbagley

All good points... I guess I was being vague. I guess my main thought was that I will have more photos (of me and the wife) to work with for mixed media style cards after Halloween. But you're right, the potential benefits of the additional source materials will likely put the date back to the point where it would be Thanksgiving before everyone got their cards. Forget I brought it up! On to planning.

I don't want to rock the boat on this one... But making the deadline a couple of days after Halloween could give some of us more material to add into these. I've got enough material now to go ahead, but fresh sources are generally more fun to work with, so I thought I would toss the idea out there in case anyone agreed. Although I do see the counter point that these are Halloween cards and getting them close to Halloween is more seasonal, and a few days postponement on the delivery of the cards could cause the cards to get to their end locations long enough after Halloween to lose the charm. Thoughts?

As always Mission, your journals are a joy to read and help us relive the event in the best possible way and give fun insight to the parts some of us may have missed from enjoying other elements, and give a chance for those who wished they could be here and couldn't a chance to share in it!

I found the below quote in this edition of the London Gazette dated to March 1713. I did a little work in the below quote fixing the optical character recognition errors, but some of the stuff is so fuzzy one can only guess as to what it should be. While the described clothes are seemingly for sailors who are retired (pensioners), I am seeing a lot of parallels to the slops contracts in this (which is why I posted this here). It seems old sailors who lived to retire were expected to die wearing the same things they wore their entire lives.

Nah, to me this is coming off more over people discussing frustrations over how communications in Twill can play out. And the frustrations are well warranted. I feel some of the passions about certain viewpoints on how to interpret the scant information can come off as heavy handed. I know I am probably one of the more guilty parties there. I guess it boils down to some folks want to do a good job (which is admirable in itself), and others pick at the details a lot (which can come off as taking it too far). Bottom line is the re-anctment world will always encompass both types. Those who strive for a good impression, and those who sometimes (or even often) get hung up in particular details (or even all details).

I think the bandolier/wooden powder holders was the dominant means of storing powder charges throughout most of the 17th century, but I have found references to shot boxes (cartouche boxes) going back as far as 1664, and there is a popular image of some Dutch soldiers dated to the 1690s that shows them with powder horns and what may be a shoulder slung shot pouch/bag. I think Patrick Hand uncovered some cool info on how the early Buccaneers may have carried their powder and cartidges (see the Buccaneer Projects discussion topic for that info)

To further add to this, said owner of said canon, is "certified" in artillery in the State Parks system, and various of the "big player" Rev War systems.

No Dutch, your original intent was in a nutshell "join our group, you'll become a subgroup to us and have to follow our rules, but you get the benefit of our insurance"... I am paraphrasing, and I hope in doing so I am not destroying your original offer... But what that offer has to do with the philosophy of re-enacting is beyond me. Your offer was a divergence from the thread's beginnings, although it was moving in that direction. It is hardly right for you to feel put out that things have diverged from the original topic (Philosophy of re-enacting) to dissecting your offer, and now off into other tangents. Whatever your intent, if you wanted it to be on focus, you probably should have posted the offer in it's own thread. This topic will and probably should meander and drift as philosophy does. After all that is what the topic is. Hope this comes as the friendly advice it is intended to be and nothing else.

Ugh, my head hurts from all this spinning... Hugh, those are great points.... But most re-enacting (and yes there are plenty of exceptions) is in the public view. As the re-enacting is in the public view (and hence requiring insurance), the re-enactors are providing a service. Perhaps a service we enjoy and would likely do whether we were performing or not, but a service none the less. And that really drags this into the bottomless pit that is the pay to play, or payed to perform debate. Personally, while I don't give a rats backside about getting paid to do this, I feel any event that is making money or profiting in any way of my performance should be picking up the tab. I'm already out of pocket all the the time and materials for my gear, my travel expenses, and often food and other sundry costs, should I (or any other re-enactor) also be forced to pay to entertain and pad the pockets of the festival organizers? (or town chamber of commerce, or local stores, or whomever else makes money off us) This doesn't include charity, a good deal of my re-enacting is for one charity or another, but amusingly enough, I have found the charities are often more willing to foot the bill on insurance (generally with a rider on their existing insurance) than the profitable ventures. Insurance may be a concern, but so far I have found the insurance issue has been a good litmus test for events I want to be involved in. Those that want it, are generally making money and hence not events I want anything to do with, those that don't want it or provide it, are generally the ones I favour. Of course there is a pretty wide spread on views for this, and quite a variety of different places where folks draw those lines.

A great and positive suggestion, and I appreciate you taking my jocularity for what it was. But any meeting of the minds should include a few battles to blow off some steam!

Okay, I am going to be a smart Alec here... And I beg you to please take this as a tongue in cheek exclamation and not a snipe... But why don't we have that congress at the Santa Maria in May? No, it has to be the Blackbeard festival? Why not at Beaufort? How about at Searle's Raid? Why not PiP? Everyone of those suggestions is a losing one, as invariably it will end up excluding some to many. And unfortunately the alternative of online discussion with the limitations of the media pretty much realistically excludes that idea. Geography was ever one of the biggest problems with this in the Viking re-enactment scene, and unfortunately one of my big contentions was that a few (a few with significant influence no less) were leveraging their influence to have the "congresses" at locations that benefited them. Not that I am accusing anyone of that, but I am trying to point out in a blunt way how big of an impact that will have.

No one questions the motives (that I can think of), I think most if not all here could agree that it is a noble idea. The problem rests in those with bad to very bad experiences will shun it based on past experience(s). Which admittedly is our issue. Except for how it can affect those who don't sign up. No matter how benevolent an intended a society is, it tends to create division between those involved and those not involved. I agree the idea of a umbrella org is a good one, unfortunately I have yet to see one implemented on the scale of what would best work for the pirate re-enactment scene with enough checks and balances to make me comfortable. And sadly (I'm not trying to be a negative Nelly, just honest here), the checks and balances for a group as small as the scene is would be impossible in my estimation to implement. On a more practical and less philosophic note, for those who already are insured? What gain is there? Are we stuck paying the bill twice just to be a part of the club? Or one could just say, the best chance for success umbrella org has (in my opinion) is developing a means to keep those capable and compatible included without being a member.

Finger meet nose. Thanks Red for helping make the point my mind seems to have been stuck on, but unable to communicate effectively!

Perhaps similar bad experiences as those of us who have had bad experiences in re-enactment societies in other hobby circles? Perhaps seeing too many parallels to hierarchies in the work place they prefer to avoid in their hobby time? There are likely as many reasons as there are people leaning to that side. And I pose this question, for those who have been down that road more than once... If it worked so well for you before, why aren't you still there? I know I was drawn to re-enacting this period because of the lack of a umbrella society. I am also fairly confident that I would meet the standards of any umbrella org that was created, but too many past bad experiences would pretty much force me to decide to not join. So should someone like me potentially get pushed to the sidelines just because I won't "sign the articles"? Admittedly those who would meet standards and not want to be involved would likely be a small minority, but being outside of a society is exclusionary whether it would be intentional or not. Or is there an idea for keeping the "freebooters" in the loop? And if so, why can't the ideas that would apply to such "freebooters" be used as the norm, and leave the society for the individual groups that want such within their individual groups?

Debunk? Or offering contradictory suggestion? I know it is easy to take negative feedback as criticism, but it is just as valid to take it as showing the potential pitfalls of an endeavor. If suggestions like this didn't go through critical analysis and contrary review they would be doomed to fail before they began. It is often the skeptics that further an idea more than the proponents.

One of my favourite articles on the art of re-enacting ever!!! And an article that HUGELY defined and affected the way I proceed with the hobby... However, also an article that is very open to lots of different types of interpretation, especially once one gets into how to execute, and whether to take it on a personal level or how to implement it on a group or *societal* level. * By societal, I mean re-enactment society level.

Thanks! That does help! Please put me down for Men's room Beach for Saturday morning then.

How strict on timing will it be for the bathroom cleaning details? I would be willing to take one of those, but not being a good morning person, and already having committed to being a Mercury Crew rep at the Safety meetings (which are still scheduled for 9:00 AM?)... If that time is flexible, I could do one of the men's bathrooms preferably Friday after my clean-up duty and safety meeting, or Saturday after the safety meeting... Which would likely put the time I would actually end up doing he cleaning at around 10:00 AM. If the time is fairly firm, please let me know, and I will put some thought to another slot I can contribute to.

You two (Red and Mission) just make me smile with your psychological analysis! Sterling, my intent was not to accuse you of purposely misquoting me, perhaps my suggestions of the nature of the technical hiccup were lost in translation or misconstrued. I am sorry if you took my pointing that out as a slight, it was intended to point out the misquote, not place blame for it. I'll pass the info of the quirk on to Stynky to look at for bug fixes (if you or someone hasn't already passed on the message). I'm sorry that has been happening to you, I can imagine the frustration at trying to post a quote, and having the quote come out wrong and confuse the message. Back on topic, I know the in/out group thing is easiest to set example to with the PC/non-PC pirates (because of the fairly obvious distinctions between the two), but I think to add to more confusion, there are various striations and styles of PC re-enacting that are likely more at play with this discussion than with the PC/non-PC thing. I think many have within this discussion have done a good job at illustrating some of the many styles of historical re-enacting. It is also my observation that most re-enactors do tend to work in varying styles of re-enactments, some more in one style, some more in others... With a fair number that are fairly migrant and work in many if not all styles.

Don't quote me on this, as I am not one of those.... But I believe there are people who have been re-enacting for 20 or 30 years that are doing pirate now.... I honestly don't think there are many out there that have been doing pirate re-enacting for more than a handful of years. The Pirate Brethren are the oldest I know of (at about 10 or 11 years old), but then I don't know everyone or all stories. Hope this clears that up. In regards to the cheesie comments from the peanut gallery, I tend to find I get that more from the public than I do re-enactors of other periods. There is the odd re-enactors of a more "old school" era that still gives a sideways glance or questioning comments... But I find those to be fairly much in the minority these days.

I am not allowed to directly respond to you on this forum? But you are allowed to quote me?? Stelring go back and look at post 70 that you made, Here's the link so you can see. There is a quoted block of text with my name on it that is not anything I said. It appears to be something you ypes, and mistakely editted to contain my name. Or perhaps a partial quote of my statements with some rebuttal from mixed into the quoted area with my name attached. Quote me all you like, just please don't attach my name to something I didn't say.

Pissing and moaning? I see a fair bit of reasonable objection based on different life experiences, but no pissing and moaning. Or is that the first step in starting the politics? Calling the dissenters out and invalidating their opinions as they don't fall into line behind "the grand scheme"? Form your guild, best of luck to you. Like I said, I don't buy into it... some will, some won't... Neat tick in editting your post to read my name with your statements!

And one only has to go onto any of the non-big player Rev War re-enacting chat boards or discussion groups to hear of how the big players poo-poo independent small militia units, despite from my very limited knowledge of that period, how in fact the militias played a large part in the historic events. Great numbers and a long lifespan do not make a group right, although that is forever the tactic of the bigger groups to try and make people believe so. Speaking of those larger Rev War groups, anyone have some honest and real stats for their ratios of officers to rank and file? And or what their criteria is for moving up in the ranks? The answers to those questions should speak loud and clear as to why their style doesn't work for pirate re-enacting.

I tend to strongly agree with both Mission and Hurricane on the concept of a "standards" group/"parent" org/or whatever spin one could choose to put onto such a thing. I left a period of re-enacting I was active in for 6 years, in fact more active in that period in the 6 years than I have been active in pirating for the last few years because "governing" bodies, no matter what spin ALWAYS end up being more about egos and personality conflicts than keeping similar standards. The funny thing was, the greatest rifts were formed by myself and others pointing out "board" decisions that were obviously and measurably more about personality conflicts and ego than "enforcing" (or even encouraging) cohesive standards. My rather unpleasant first hand experience and a good deal of second or third hand stories has made rather dogmatic in my belief that reenactment "societies" are essentially a bad idea. EVERY good event I have ever been to, or really enjoyed was a result of differing groups with different but compatible standards coming together as equals without some governing body to "oversee" it. Heck I have even seen a group formed for strictly insurance purposes and nothing else dissolve into rediculous power struggles. Unfortunately the ugly side of human nature is a far stronger driving force than any "benevolant" governing body is... That unpleasant but true statement is as true if not more so in re-enacting as it is in any other element of life... Which is why I will never involve myself with a "umbrella" org in re-enacting again. I have to suffer that in work, politics, and every other element of my life... I'll be damned before I sign up for it in what is supposed to be my break from the rest if my life. Good luck to any who care to walk that path, I won't say "I told you so" in the few to handful of years it takes for those situations to finally come to a head.. As I said it before hand. And being that truthful and honest about it, has only ever brought me heartbreak and a good stiff knife in the back.

CasketChris, I've seen a fair number of pictures of you guys (you and Kenneth are the main two I have noticed), and you are far too modest! You guys are a lot further along on the curve than you give yourselves credit for! From the few photos I have seen of you guys, you are on par with most of the better crews I see out in the East. Modern items infringing into re-enactment is something people talk about a fair bit... But most people know they are a necessary thing... specially when it comes to infants, or medications, or other modern health or safety issues. To further Cuisto's point... I live in the mid-west.... There were never GAoP here (river pirates were a later thing)... And while it is small, we have been working to some more living history events out this way, and getting some pretty good turnouts. Anyone can re-enact anything (within reason) anywhere they want. It only takes a few guys to put together and event, the more the better, but a handful or two people and a place to play. Pirate festivals are a great place to start, but there are a lot of avenues you can check out. The biggest challenge you guys will likely have is the patience to make it grow... Sometimes if you are lucky, it can grow fast... But more often than not, it takes lots of time. And there will be a bit of a pulse to it. Expect it to grow some, shrink a bit, and grow some more, then shrink back a bit. As long as you are enjoying it, try and roll with the ebbs and flows... For my part, I will continue to look for pictures of you guys as I enjoy seeing them!