One And Only LT

^ Gave up a few things chasin' his dreams.

What waters are ye from? Pirates wore what they stole. So if a Rogue, a hiwayman, a farmer, a King, whomever/whatever was on a ship..

Sorry... but how often did Highwaymen, farmers and Kings go to sea to get robbed by Pyrates?

I don't mean to be so blunt...... but that post just didn't work....... If Pyrates wore what they stole. then they would have worn what was common..... I just can't see a bunch of horse riding Highwaymen in bucket boots sailing around the Carribean....

I am not afraid to answer this and blunt is the only way to go. Comin' sense, first we talk about pirates, then sailors. How many pirates where sailors first? Piracy was created because they didn't like what they were getting out of being a sailor, right?

Knowing that how'd they get a ship in the first place? Then you don't think anyone traveled, by way of ship. If that's the case my great, great, great,etc. something cousin would of never been captured by pirates, if I recall right, they were shop owners.

Here's the real deal, pirates today, and of yesterday...it does not matter, they are thieves, raiders, and plunders. Name any some were good others not. The good ones wore what they wanted, they could afford to. Nothing has changed just the canvas(fashion)...the world, it's the same today...even now some of the clothing we used to wear is unexplainable. I liked to see 300 yrs from now the archioliogst dig up some of our pirate gear, then try to put together why we wore such strange outfits, yet had such high technolgy. Can you imagine what they will come up with, you know half of it won't be right.

Now...I like the fun, I like the debate, as far as theatrics go...well I truely believe that we don't know the half of it. There is history, there is close, but I got a steamer trunk that is 19o3 and can't figure out what the hell they would need some of the gagets for and still looking into it.

In this debate I have learned alot. The boot pics. and history found fasinating, but still as far as pirates go...there is no absoult. And I wish I was better at following threads, that might benifit me even more, but I will keep it up. LOL

I want to say thanx, for telling me your true thoughts this gives me even more respect for you Patrick Hand and JoushaRed.

And to Gentlemen Of Fortune thank-you...forst wit your name sake. A favor to you in the callin'.

I like all the pictures, but remember as an artist, feet~especially bare feet hard to draw...boots much easier Just kiddin'.

I will stick to mine own deduction...what waters are ye from? Pirates wore what they stole. So if a Rogue, a hiwayman, a farmer, a King, whomever/whatever was on a ship...or if cargo aboard a ship that pirates raided and it was a succsessful raid... they got to wear it, for better or worst.

So in theory, you need to know what ships ye are attacking~ then ye boots will be right in style. It's been a grand debate Pirate Petee.

okay my first real research into this discussion.

(http://podiatry.curtin.edu.au/boot.html#chop) Cameron Kippen, Curtin Universty of Technology, Perth WA states on his site:

Boots of the Sixteenth Century

During the sixteenth century boots were worn by the military or part of hunting attire. As war tore through Europe in the following centuries, boots again became the fashion. High boots were popular in Spain where they seemed to originate from. Henry IV of France (1589-1610) enjoyed wearing the best of leathers and relalised the craftmen in Franch were inferior to elsewhere. He commissioned a tanner to study leather work in Hungary where the old trades still existed. His influence made boots very fashionable in France and they were allowed to be worn in salons as well as on the dance floor. The style of boots varied relating to whatever purpose they were put to. Boots were distinctively men's fashion everybit as much as the codpiece. According to Girotti (1997) to make the boots fit tightly around the leg, they were first soaked in water. Once they dried on the leg it was very difficult for the man wearing the boots to bend their knees. Dismounted horsemen walked with stiffened legs. This may have given rise to a distinctive swaggering gait which at the time was considered very macho.

Boots of the Seventeenth Century

By the beginning seventeenth century boots had become fashionable for men and were worn at the English court during Charles I reign. (1600-1649). Charles suffered from osteomalacia (rickets) as a child and was feared would never walk without the aid of calipers. The Royal shoemaker designed boots which has concealed brass supports in the heel and ankle. Once an adult he was able to walk without the aid of his supports but continued to wear boot for preference. Tightly fitting boots became the fashion and were folded back into deep tops. The front flap of the boots provided a handsome strap to fit spurs onto. Later soft boots with baggy creases and full tops became the fashion at European courts. Ladies continued to wear slippers with pointed toes and in some cases high heeled pumps. (Burnett, 1926). Cordoba was the centre for leather craft in Europe and the term cordwainer refers to a man who has derived his craft from the Spanish city of Cordoba. Craftsmen were sent to Cordoba to learn the secrets of the leather trade and bring them back to France. Cordoban boots were soft and worn crumpled or with a kink. A large piece of leather shapped like a butterfly was stitched across the instep to hold the golden or silver rowel spurs. A soulette was a strap fastened under the foot, which also held the spur in position. Poor quality boots were made from cow hide which was heavier but more durable. The lace edged boothose were worn inside the boot and were made from linen. These protected the delicate silk stockings from being soiled by the leather. From 1610 onwards boots were worn indoors, sometimes with an overshoe. (After peace was ratified in the Treaty of Westphilia in 1648, boots were no longer worn indoors.) Riding boots were worn high with widely flared or funnel tops protecting the knee when riding. This part of the boot could be turned down for town wear. Already in 1627 gentlemen were wearing light coloured boots with red heels and the edges of the soles were stained red. Under Louis XIII (1601-1643) a shorter, lighter model of boot known as the Ladrine was worn. By 1630 a protective additional sole or golosh made from thick leather or wood was used to keep the fine boots and shoes from the dirt of the streets. Boots were only accepted for riding, hunting and walking by this time. Restoration of the Stuarts to the English thrown (1660) brought the heeled boot to England. Men wore boots with very long stockings which flared at the top of the leg and caught the foot with a strap under the instep. These were worn over silk stockings. Boots were worn tight on the leg but the top could be turned over. The footwear was made of soft leather.The Cavalier boot had a very wide top which could be turned down for town wear, showing silk or coloured leather lining. The width of the leg had increased and the boots were worn wide across the toes. Toes became square and this fashion remained popular till the end of the century. Aristocracy preferred light, high heeled shoes and boot but the working class wore more practical and cheaper shoes, which were low heeled. Usually dark brown, with leather latchet ties, deep square toes and closed sides. In 1660 the France of Louis XIV became the fashion capital and shoes for men were preferred over boots. From 1660 onwards decorative frills, or cannons, were worn below the knee and hence shoes became more popular. At the end of the reign of Charles II (1630-85) the militarty still wore an old style heavy boot. This was replaced by a light leather leggings covering the boot called houseaux. The heavy boot was still used for riding. In 1663 the first seamless boot was made by a Gascon shoemaker called Lestage. King William of Orange (1650-1702) introduced the jackboot, which was of sturdy construction and worn high above the knee, quartered, and heeled with immense breadth for the toes. Thigh high boots were fashionable for soldiers and horsemen, Worn tight on the calf they were ample enough to be folded over in a buccaneer fashion above the knee. Sometimes covered in decoration with punched designs they covered the whole leg and were held in place with garters or suspenders from the doublet. The above knee section was known as bucket tops and were worn with leathers and spurs. The boot offered protective armour to the leg and is still worn by the Housuehold Cavalry. Before the advent of gum boots the style of boot was worn by fishwermen. Thigh high boots were originally worn by pirates and smugglers, who tucked contraband or "booty" into them. The practice gave rise to the term, "bootlegging'.

Boots of the Eighteenth Century

During the eighteenth century boots had surpassed shoes as the fashionable footwear for men. They became more refined and slimmed down in style. Worn with turned down tops, lined in brown, to contrast with the black leather of the rest of the boot, the top boots were distinctly elegant. The style was based on the boots worn by horse jockeys who partook in the newly fashionable sport of horse racing (Baynes K , Baynes K, 1979). The black and brown boots worn to below the knee were for outdoors. O'Keeffe, (1996) considered women would have less need to venture outdoors and hence their shoes were more flimsy by comparison. Tans and pale shades were popular with the gentry. Dandified young Englishmen became obsessed with all things foreign and were christened Macaronis by satirists. They used to have iron heel clips fitted to draw attention to themselves as they walked through the streets. George Beau Brummell (1790- 1840) epitomised the new age macho dresser and as a dandy was quite different to fops of the previous century. Brummell had certain ideocynrcacies and was reputed to have his boots polished with champagne. Not only that he insisted in having the soles of his boots polished at the same time as the uppers. The reason being he was concerned the edge of the boots were not perfectly shined. Brummell sported the two most popular styles of the time. These were the English, John Bull (or tall boot) and the Austrian, Hess boot. Hess boots took their name from the German state of Hesse, where they were made. The hesse boot was knee high and cut on a V at the front. Often the boot had a decorative tassle. In time the Wellington boot superceded the popularity of the hessian boot (also called Souvaroffs). This was a slim cut leather boot which was worn under narrow trousers. Napolean boots cut high in the front and worn to the knees first appeared round about 1730. The design allowed the knee to bend as well as offer protection to the joint when exposed during horseriding. It was common practice to wear long woollen stockings under the knee high riding boots. The laced ankle boot we know associate with modern militaria originated from the Blucher shoe which was based on a boot worn by Prince of Wahlstadt, Gebhard Leberecht von Blucher, a Prussian field Marshall. His popularity was second only to Wellington as a hero of the battle of Waterloo. The blucher or derby was a high cut shoe with a tongue cut in one piece with the forepart and fastened with laces. Women's boots were a modified version of men's footwear designed for equestrian persuit. However it did not escape the attention of French writer and wit, Nicolas-Sebastien Chamfort (1741-1794), who wrote in Maxims's and Considerations of the common habit for ladies to tip their man servents to help remove their tight boots. Chamfort was of course referring to flirtations resulting from exposure of forbiden flesh. A common practice among the upper classes. In 1770 boots were introduced to dandies who started to wear their boots to half calf. Splatter dashes were puttees or leggings that buttoned on the inside of the leg and worn to protect the delicate silk hose during inclement weather. Jockey boots were introduced in 1780. However the need to protect feet from the elements necessitated new materials be developed and during the 1790's patent leather became available. Shoes and boots treated with the new process became a very popular fashion on both sides of the Atlantic. By the end of the century young men wore the popular hussar bushkins which were short boots with a dip in the front, mid tibia. French top boots with a turned over top were also fashionable. V-fronted tasselled hessian boots were made from soft leather and proved popular with men.

just one source. But think about it. We spend time looking at records and paintings. Wouldn't someone such as a podiatrist maybe hold the key to this discussion?

I like this, very informative. :) Thank thee.

I just figure that Petee wears his bucket boots because he has really ugly legs...... not nice shapely legs like the rest of us....

Hey.... this is the time period when it was men who showed off thier legs.....

Iffin' Pettee has ugly legs or not is unbeknow to me, but he did say he had buckle shoes...member...thar's gonna be sum leg there unless he does not wear slops...then I be a missin sumthin...

Bein' the kind of lass I am, won't mind a leg or two, ya know,

Turkey legs that is. So show them legs and bring on the slops! Thar' almost as good as kilts.

^is a happy pirate :)

^ Likes to tastes her recipes... :angry:

Will do Hitman. I'll keep fightin the good fight. Petee Defender of the Bucket Boot. :angry:

This isn't part of the debate, but I'd like to add, none of us renies are true blue buccaneers when it comes to depiction. First of all none of us lasses would of had any cleavage!! Second we all want to look good, bucket boots are beautiful and are sweet for holding a flask of the rum! And pulled up they keep the legs warm. Besides I'm certainly not one to talk, I were moccians, and I'm not binding the twins.

I started its own post, I didn't want to take away from the Morgan Pic topic.

Boots, yeah. I love this debate. Now see people, we can have a friendly debate, without peoples slops getting in a bunch. GoF, I didn’t get your PM about the Batavia’s boots, but I received those pics from Charity here at the pub. True, if you look at the pics of the “Bucket Boots” who in there right mind would want to wear those stiff looking things on a ship, maybe some, I don’t know. If you look at the pics of the Batavia boots and another illustration of seamen wearing boots, they look totally different, looser, more baggy and more “ship friendly”. Is it possibly that there were several different styles of boots, both tall with folded tops, maybe. A discussion in its own. Now I’m not saying that every pirate or sailor wore boots, hell I’m not even saying that most of them wore boots, I am just saying that some did. Hey, don’t get me wrong I wear buckle shoes too. Shhh don’t tell my boot friends about that . I don’t think Hollywood came up with the idea that they wore boots, there are a lot of early 19th century images of seamen wearing boots, that’s in the 1800’s, a lot closer to the GAoP than we are :angry: , with so many depictions of them wearing boots it had to have come from some where.

Ok, I just love debates, and love to play devil's avocate in the myst....so here is something that needs pondering. First of all todays society glorifies and romances Pyracy, and any one knows cow hide is not something great to have in or arround salt water. Second pirates took and wore whatever they got their hands on, and that all depended on the ship they were aboard. I'm sure there were "bad" pirates, as well as all the renound, and pirates did not live very long (no-one movie accounts for quick pro queo kills and desperate poor pirates-let alone how hard the life was.) So it is truely safe to say...Maybe the Captain and officers got boots of any sorts, and safe to say, all pirates wore what they stole, and could keep, depending on the other pirates. Mostly they wanted quick monies. Pirate crews, wore their cloths until they were nothing, and boots got in the way. Have you ever climbed rigging with boots? Pirates did not care what they looked like, they cared about making/stealing monetary goods to make a quick fortution.

Now for saliors, thats a whole different issue. Do to the fact they were issued clothing and alotments. Just as today, they also had different alotments accross the board, for different countries, and this would explain the different kinds of boots, and gear. Also they would of had different attire for the event. Such as if Royality was inspecting, etc. and the lower ranks would have less gear. (A good movie for this is Horicio Hornblower. --forgive spelling--you get it.) Any way they did not have many boots at all in this video, mostly buckle shoes, and the higher ups, to say got to change their foot gear, but even in this video the boots were not bucket. More like english riding boots.

So I agree with all of you really, but what is baffling is who got to wear the boots? Maybe the seaman officers got to wear boots, when they went ashore, or in the deep dense jungle forest.....or when they got on their horse.

I will keep intune with this thread, I love the pics, never saw anything like the pics. only drawings.

Tis a wonderful way to get to know ye people find out what's in their gut, with out gulling them--perfect I say, just perfect. Well for starters there not be any fresh fruit in a yards arm, and lately it's been toast and mud (coffee). I'd truely like to get me hands on some of that steak. I will proably die of survey!!

Welp...I am on the map, and not many ships out here in the mountains, but sure see the Burmuda Trinangle!! And there is ships in deasert.(sp) That's what a third grade edumacation will get cha.