RoyalJames

I think you are right about blending the grog, making it strong enough to get the drink clean but not that strong that it got the men drunk. Exactly, half a pint of rum every day and in addition a lot of salted food, would require something to keep the body’s fluid balance. After a quick glance at the Endeavour (thus one single ship, and slightly outside the period) it seems like they took onboard a lot of water from the start. About 30 tons divided into 30-gallon and 100-gallon barrels. Beer was loaded in England but at no other place (I think), and wine at Madeira. A while ago I found a video clip of a guy storing water in a barrel for some months and then drank it as an experiment. The look of his face was indescribable, and he couldn’t force himself to swallow it. Unfortunately I have lost the link, but will post it if I find it again. From Endeavour again, 1771 Jan 1: “I had been unacountably troubled with Musquitos ever since we left Batavia, and still imagin'd that they increasd instead of decreasing, although my opinion was universaly thought improbable; today however the mystery was discoverd, for on getting up water today, Dr Solander who happned to stand near the scuttle cask observd an infinite number of them in their water state in it, who as soon as the sun had a little effect upon the water began to come out in real Effective mosquetos incredibly fast.” Further on, it is described that they had some sort of machine to purify water (probably just boiling it) but they didn’t use it because it required too much firewood.

References to Greek gods or other creatures of the Greek mythology often pops up when reading old texts from the period. Especially when it comes to the naming of ships (and perhaps French in particular?). One image that many here probably are familiar with is the cover to the Dutch General History of the Pirates, which Rediker makes an interesting comparison to the painting “La Liberté guidant le people”. But what is the painter’s message? And who are the gods? I guess we see one of the wind gods, perhaps Zephyrus. Justitia is pretty clear with the scale. Beside her one male god is almost strangled by the lady, perhaps Deimos for terror? To the left there is a creature, Manticore? – the devil? Is she controlling the gods, or are they helping her? In higher resolution

In the republic of pirates Woodard states that: ”..Royal Navy rations gave each man a half pint of rum and a gallon of beer every day..” What about water? Did they drink water, or was the beer of such low alcohol strength that it served as the common drink aboard? In that case, how did they provide those quantities, were they able to brew beer along the way?

This could perhaps be interesting to compare with a description of the island Bourbon in the Indian Ocean in 1720. Gaubil writes (in googlish): “There may be, both in one and in the other area 3600 inhabitants including more than 2000 black slaves. The others are all European, and many of them were pirates. The Creoles, or those born in the island are well built: one part is mulatto. Women and girls are mostly black and bright eyes, fine lines, healthy head and shoulders. They do not wear corsets or French clothes but simply skirts fabric of India with very fine cotton linen shirts, buttoned in the neck and neck. They have as hairstyle, a clean handkerchief. They do not wear down or shoe. The children really come you never puts the jersey. They do not wear corset or dress.”

This is no answer to your question, but some curiosa on the same subject. According to Brian Lavery copper was introduced as means of hull protection on the frigate Alarm in 1761. This was so successful (and still is) that almost all ships used this by 1778.

We also have Condent. If we can trust Ellms (The Pirates Own Book), he says: “..he used all the Portuguese who fell into his hands, who were many, very barbarously, cutting off their ears and noses; and as his master was a papist, when they took a priest, they made him say mass at the mainmast, and would afterwards get on his back and ride him about the decks, or else load and drive him like a beast.”

It’s perhaps difficult to know the exact agreement between the crews in a ‘company’. But certainly there must have been some. Snelgrave for instance describes how his ship was captured by Cocklyn and plundered by his crew, but later La Buse’s crew was let aboard to do a second round. I guess this also shows that they were different crews in a bigger ‘company’ rather than a big ‘crew’. Interesting also with the ‘retirement’. I think there are several occasions in history where pirates settled down, especially around Madagascar. Perhaps the thought of changing crews wasn’t impossible even if uncommon. In the end the ‘personality’ of the crew choses their leader. But on the other hand, people tend to stick with their group and getting formed by it.

I wonder what possibilities the pirates had to change crews or ships. I understand that deserters were not thought well of, but on the other hand there are some examples of pirates leaving their crews like the men from Davis crew who fell in love with some Portuguese girls on Cap Verde and settled down there, presumable with the crew's understanding. It is not clear to me how they considered the boundaries of the different crews while sailing together. It seems like often a commodore was the leader of the gang, but did the pirates then consider themselves to be part of one big crew or several smaller units with their own articles?

I think the consort of Davis, Taylor, Cocklyn, La Buse and England is a good example of different personalities. Apparently Taylor and Cocklyn fancied a more violent leadership, which I assume attracted a certain part of the crews, while Davis, La Buse and England were more humane leaders perhaps motivated with ideological ideas like the Jacobite leanings. They seem to have had different ideas of how to treat captives and prizes, either by fear or generosity, which led to several conflicts among them but still they more or less remained partners with common interests. Common enemies can unite the most different kind of persons. Taylor’s personality is interesting. Even if Snelgrave spoke well of him, he certainly had a cruel or mentally unstable mind. On the Guinea coast he punished some local fishermen by hanging them in the mast and practicing shooting on them. In Delagoa he shot a black man for no other reason than “entertainment” while drinking. He struck his captives with canes and squeezed their joints and at Mauritius a black man got his ears cut off. He also punished La Buse by the mast for trying to sneak off, which raises the question of why La Buse secretly wanted to part; was he afraid of Taylor?

Jasper Seagar is often taken for being the true name of Edward England, but as Grey and others suggest they probably were two different persons. It is easy to understand how they got mixed up as they succeeded each other as captains of the same ship and crew, and at which point Seagar’s name first seems to be mentioned in the history. I have started to list the places and dates where he is mentioned: 1720 Aug 17, Anjouan, Seagar is captain of the Fancy. (Kirby) * 1720 Dec, Seager commands a 38 gun ship at the coast of Malabar. (Fougeray) 1721 Apr 26, La Buse (Le Victorieux) and Seagar (Fancy) takes the Nossa Senhora do Cabo at Saint Denis, Bourbon (Le Mercure) 1721 May-Aug, La Buse replaces Seagar as a captain of the Cassandra when he dies at St Marie. (Moor per Foxe) In addition to the above: Seagar replaces England as a captain. (Moor per Foxe) ** * How could Kirby know the name of the ship and the captain as he ran off? Did he either talk to them first, or did he learn the names later? ** When or where did Seagar replace England? I would be happy to learn more about Seagar if anyone has more information regarding him.

Thanks! The shooting hadn’t begun yet as I made the first post.

As you probably already know, many crews banned gambling for money onboard their ships. My interpretation of this is that gambling still was allowed on shore. In the search of the ship The Flying (or Fiery) Dragon some small pieces of metal with marks on were found, which were assumed to be tokens used instead of money. Check out either “X Marks the Spot: The Archaeology of Piracy” or the documentary “Pirate Island”. Good luck with your book!

Today a brand new 24-pound cannon is fired into a replica of ship Vasa (originally built 1628) in Stockholm. https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svt.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Fi-dag-skjuts-regalskeppet-vasa-sonder&edit-text=

Well, at least there is a place there called the ”pirate cemetery”. And why not, St Marie seems to have been a pirate port for around 1684 – 1725 (referring to Bry’s chapter of the Fiery Dragon in X marks the spot). I think I have read somewhere that St Marie had around 1000 inhabitants at some point. Many of the pirates that settled down married local women and presumably there must have been children too. During the 40 years of the society there must have been deaths, and thus funerals. I know very little about it, but if the “pirate cemetery” is what it sounds like, it would be of interest to know more about the people buried there. And, not less if one of the stones says Seagar =)

Are there any studies done on the cemetery on St Marie?

I agree with that. One great thing with this forum is to get input from different people with different views of a subject, which may give a hint if it follows a trend or not.

You see right through me.. =) That was what I was looking for! Even if I had forgotten that it was meant for forced men. This makes me think of Du Bucqouy. I assume he must have kept notes in a diary or such, which could mean that Taylor’s crew had no issue with writing even for forced men. Interesting with the horn books. Apparently different crews had quite different views of books and writing.

I think I’ve read somewhere (Rediker perhaps?) that writing was not allowed onboard some pirate ships. I find it a little odd that in an otherwise quite open-minded society ban books and writing. To me it reminds more of an act of a dictatorship rather than a democracy. But that is perhaps a more modern way to see it. I can imagine that illiterates could have some fear of written texts. Not to allow written texts may have been an act of equality. It would be interesting to understand what he meant by “jaw-works”. Perhaps you’re right, he just thought it was too much babbling. But, what books would prevent them to “go to hell”? Bibles? Do we know of any other examples of pirates relations to books?

In Snelgrave’s account it is described how the pirates threw books into the sea: “Moreover, two large chests that had books in them were empty, and I was afterwards informed they had been all thrown overboard; for one of the pirates on opening them swore there was jaw-work enough (as he called it) to serve a nation, and proposed that they might be cast into the sea, for he feared there might be some books amongst them that might breed mischief enough, and prevent some of their comrades from going on in their voyage to hell, whither they were all bound" Why this hate toward books and writing? What where they worried to find in these books that would “prevent them to go to hell”? Perhaps most of them were illiterate and books were a symbol of the authorities. If few of them could read, the books didn’t have much value anyway.

I made a similar post before in the ‘La Buse’ thread, but it suits better in this one. Looking at his trail, it says he was to be hanged "naked in his shirt" with a two pound flaming torch in his hand. This can be compared to the hanging described in Woodward, where the pirates seemed to be dressed as they liked, and some of them were also considerably drunk. The French appears to be more strict, at least in this case. Any ideas of the symbolic of the torch? Religious? From the trial of La Buse (google translated): “..the Council has condemned and condemns to make amends at the front door of the church of the parish, naked, shirt, neck rope and holding in his hand a flaming torch weighing two pounds; for there, decide and declare in a loud voice, that maliciously and recklessly, he has for several years the pirate craft, which he repents and asks for forgiveness to God, the King and Justice; therefore, will be conducted in the public square to be hanged and strangled until death ensues from a gallows, which for this purpose will be planted instead accustomed, his dead body stay twenty-four hours and then exposed to the sea..” From Woodward, p302 “Standing atop the rampart, most of the prisoners were cowed, including their ringleader, John Augur, who was dressed in filthy clothes and had neither washed nor shaved. In contrast, twenty-eight-year-old Dennis McCarthy and Thomas Morris, twenty-two, were dressed flamboyantly, with long blue and red ribbons adorning their wrists, necks, knees, and skulls.”

You are probably right. That makes more sense than throwing the body into the sea. It is hard to understand all these “rituals”. Does anyone know the reason for letting the body be washed by the tide? I understand that pirates usually were hanged at the high-water mark in English territories (due to some juridical reason, up to the high-water mark naval laws were used (?) ). This seems not to be the case for the French, as the trial says that he is to be executed in “the public square”. Has anyone studied other French pirate trials?

From the trial of La Buse (google translated): “..the Council has condemned and condemns to make amends at the front door of the church of the parish, naked, shirt, neck rope and holding in his hand a flaming torch weighing two pounds; for there, decide and declare in a loud voice, that maliciously and recklessly, he has for several years the pirate craft, which he repents and asks for forgiveness to God, the King and Justice; therefore, will be conducted in the public square to be hanged and strangled until death ensues from a gallows, which for this purpose will be planted instead accustomed, his dead body stay twenty-four hours and then exposed to the sea..” What is the purpose (or symbolic) of the “two pound torch”? How is a dead body practically “exposed to the sea”? Usually when throwing something into the sea at the shoreline it rather keep getting washed back than swept away.

I wonder if anyone could clear out what prime meridians were used in the GAOP? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand it like El Heirro / Ferro, the Canary Islands, was the most commonly used prime meridian. It was first used by the Spanish, as it was the most westerly known point. (The Portuguese used Madeira in a similar way.) Many countries had for a long time their own meridians, but in this period Holland also used El Heirro for some reason. I think even France used it, perhaps because the Dutch were the superior chart drawers? What did the British use? I know that Dutch charts were highly valued, but perhaps these were converted to an English system. I have seen suggestions of both London / Greenwich and Lizard Point, or did they use El Heirro too?

I suggest that you read Snelgrave’s account, it will clear out several things. He does not name the captain, but says that the French ship was very old, came there by mistake and was taken around April 14th. Cocklyn put a rope around the captain’s neck and was about to hang him as La Buse stopped it and this was one of the reasons why La Buse wanted to break up the party. The French surgeon was then forced to join the pirates. Remember that “the Guinea coast” was not just Guinea. Thank you for the information regarding the capture at Cap Lopez in September, that was new to me. I am looking forward to read your thesis when it’s released.

Thank you for the information. It is hard to argue about it without knowing exactly what is written, but if the two captains were taken after the forts were attacked they are not “primary sources”? I guess that the first captain you refer to is the same as mentioned by Snelgrave, the one who came there by a navigational mistake and who was badly treated by Cocklyn, but saved by La Buse. Do you know where the second one was captured in September? Davis was killed in June, which is why you won’t find him in the later dates.