Mission

Doesn't independent sort of imply primary? If you're reading a non-period book about period, it is either a dependent book or it is fiction. (But your point is taken. ) I wish I could link you into the databases, but, alas, you have to pay a bunch of money to have access to them. As I have said elsewhere, you can often get to them (in the States, anyhow) using the guest computers at large universities. Then you can copy the material onto a thumb drive. (That's what I do, anyhow.)

Based on discussions with a friend who is actually pursuing an advanced degree in history, the rule of thumb for historians to prove a behavior/object/style seems to be to have three independent sources of that behavior/object/style. This seems reasonable for a period like ours which I am finding has a great deal of printed source material. Such material is becoming ever more available to people like us. When I first started looking for period medical sources in 2007, it was a tough slog to find source material beyond what was currently in print, but that has changed in these few short years. I now have sources available via Digital archives on the internet, Relevant databases available via college libraries including ESTC (English Short Title Catalog) and ECCO (Eighteenth Century Collections Online), EEBO (Early English Books On-Line) and, The recent re-publishing of all sorts of books via Gale-ECCO print editions. Three independent sources seems pretty reasonable to me, and even necessary in many ways. Why? Having waded through dozens of 18th c. texts, I can state that The spelling in these manuscripts is atrocious and the print frequently very hard to read, leading to all sorts of possibility for misinterpretation. Human error in prose description was as likely then as it is now. (How many times have you grasped for the right word and used the wrong one instead - even in print?) A single or even second instance of something could be an aberration. While this may prove something happened, it does not mean it happened more than the one or two times it was recorded. Well, that's my take on it, at least as regards things that have been recorded in three different places. (Those not recorded in three different places are beyond our reach.) If we're going to say something was 'commonly done' or 'commonly used', I think the three independent source rule is fair. What do you think?

That's an excellent point. I too have had good luck with Paypal retrieving funds from non-delivering vendors.

I thought this (up for auction on eBay) was kind of cool for an ear scoop. It's a little pricey for my needs, but perhaps not outrageously so for someone who does period impressions with kids.

Yeah, I agree with Dutchman. You're usually better off not airing your grievances publicly. It's kind of like that old kid's rhyme, "They are rubber, you are glue; everything you say bounces off them and sticks to you." (Even when you're sure you're right people seem to think less of you for starting a topic complaining about something.) Now if someone asks for advice about a vendor...well that's a different matter if you focus on the facts of the deal gone bad and avoid calling that vendor names.

Hi Marbles. This post actually belongs in the Thieves forum (where we buy and sell stuff) so I moved it there for you. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't see your second photos, so you may need to fix that link. Good luck! (He looks expensive. Have you tried Craig's List?)

Happy Birthday, Chris! Now tell us another story about your days on the road.

You know, in a search of my (currently) 937 pages of period medical notes, I did not find a single instance of iodine or its Latin equivalent. (And I have entered an awful lot of period medical recipes.)

Yep, it appears to be. Thanks for fixing it again. It's a nice feature to have available, especially in Twill.

You haven't paid attention to my presentation, have you? Ancient medical theory - from Hippocrates (and before) to about 1900 - believed that our body contained 4 humors. (Hippocrates is one of the first people we know of to have codified the basics of humoral theory.) These four humors consisted of phlegm, blood, black bile and yellow bile. If you became ill or had medical problems it was believed that the illness proceeded in part from these four humors being out of balance. This is the reason they bled people when they were sick. They were trying to remove the bad blood and balance the humors. (Well, among other things. There was a whole extensive theory woven around the idea of humors that goes beyond this discussion.) Additionally, when you were wounded, there was a need to balance the humors and draw them away from the wound. So they might bleed your big toe to draw humors away from a problem in your neck (This is something I was just yesterday reading Matthias Purmann did in one case.) So there's the basics of humoral theory for you in a nutshell. It wasn't until the late 19th century that it fell out of favor, so much of the medical theory that governed recorded human history was based on this theory. Now, to point. When Clowes says, "A great and inordinate amount of flux of vicious and corrupt humors passed out of his mouth, with much acrimony, burning heat and sharpness, by reason of the putrefaction of his gums..." he is stating that some sort of fluid or fluid-based stuff came from the poor guy's mouth. He blames it on humors coming from the guy's rotting gums. (Curiously, rotting gums is actually one of the symptoms of scurvy, among other things.) We hope you have enjoyed this brief overview. For more information on humoral theory, visit your local library. Or be lazy and look it up on wiki.

Now this is interesting. It is from the book Selected Writings of William Clowes. While it doesn't say anything specifically relating to the original point, it suggest something pretty wretched. (Clowes was a renowned surgeon and one-time army surgeon in the late 1500s.) “…to attempt the said cure, according to the gentleman’s own request, which was with the unction [the anointing with the mercurial ointment. This treatment had to be carefully regulated and if persisted in for too long was exceedingly dangerous.] But first he prepared and afterwards purged his body, and opened a vein, and after, very discreetly, he administered the unction at several times, until he saw it had wrought sufficiently and to Master Story’s own good liking, and so meant to have ceased. But this monster in humanity, contrary to all Art and reason, compelled Master Story to administer the unction once again, saying his body was strong enough to endure it. Howbeit, within three days after, he began to sing a new song, for strange and unexpected accidents immediately followed. A great and inordinate amount of flux of vicious and corrupt humors passed out of his mouth, with much acrimony, burning heat and sharpness, by reason of the putrefaction of his gums, with an horrible stinking savour and a fever accompanying the same.” (Excerpts, Clowes, p. 65) (emphasis mine)

If they've heard of it, please ask them to provide a reference. It would be an excellent thing for me to have and could be part of a useful book to read on medicine. (I plan to do a whole section on VD in my book since it was such a big problem.)

And now we once again have recourse to Guy Williams' splendidly morbid book, The Age of Agony, in reference to this topic. (Those of you who haven't read this and want to effect an interesting period portrayal are really missing something IMO. It's a fascinating read for one and all.) “Primary, secondary and tertiary stages [of syphilis] were quickly recognized in the progress of the disease. First infection was indicated by a hard sore, or ‘chancre’ on the site of contact. Dr. [John] King, like John Woodall, burned this away with the application of some caustic substance, but in fact this made no difference, for whether it was treated or not, the sore would heal of itself, leaving a small scar. Six to eight weeks later, the patient would develop a fever and a rash. This was when he was at his most infectious and consequently it was the stage treated most drastically. A standby was mercurial ointment, which was made up of equal parts of mercury and lard with a small addition of prepared suet. A walnut sized lump of this was rubbed into the inside of the thighs night and morning until so much mercury was absorbed through the skin that the inside of the mouth became sore and the patient drooled. This was known as ‘salivation’ and was a sign that the desired effect was being achieved." (Williams, p. 127) “The methods by which venereal diseases were treated prior to the year 1700 ranged from the absurd to the madly dangerous. Of course, sufferers from the pox were bled, purged, blistered, and given a variety of emetics, as they would have been if they had contracted any other disease. In addition, they might have been thrashed soundly – as a punishment for having conducted themselves in an unseemly way, and to discourage them from ever doing the same thing again- or they might have been subjected to some entirely useless old wives’ remedy –in a few places, a pox-ridden man would have had his penis wrapped in warm, steaming parts of a fowl that had just been torn asunder, while it was still alive. More fortunate patients would have been treated with mercury, or with guiac.” (Williams, p. 131)

Say, I want that orange coat while we're doing the Cross sailor's divvy.

Hey, I saw the new action figs for POTC4 in Wally World yesterday. They have large scale (about 8" I'd guess) and small (about 3"). The large figures looked pretty nice - Jack, Gibbs, Blackbeard, Barbossa and Angelica. I picked up Gibbs as he was the best of the lot IMO. (Barbossa has a truly odd-looking hat that actually made me laugh when I saw it.) The little figures had some sort of feature where if you got them wet or something the faces turned white and ghostly-looking. I forget what they called it. There were also some mini-packs with a figure and several large accessories. I believe there were 2 different kinds: one with blackbeard and two cannon and another with Jack and...something. I forget. Oh, and there was a playset for the small figures of the QAR. It also said something about the ghostly feature on it. If I see them again, I'll make a note of what it is.

Don't misunderstand me; I could very well be wrong about this. I've just never seen a reference to it in the period or pre-period books I've read. Remember too that they might have seen black foam and not managed to connect it to mercury. On top of that, the medicines used are probably the area of least interest to me in period medicine, so I would not call myself an 'expert' by any stretch of the word. They used all sorts of combinations of ingredients because medicines were very much trial-and-error things. Some of the crazy patent concoctions in use during period had 50 or 60 ingredients in them including weird ingredients that you would probably be more likely to associate with a witch's brew. In fact, one of the short pamphlets I read was all about a mixture that a apothecary was trying to convince the BR Navy was an effective cure all. Calomel (mentioned in that document I linked to above) was definitely in use. I also vaguely recall references to the blue pill he mentions there. Naturally recipes varied from book to book, apothecary to apothecary and sea surgeon to sea surgeon, so I would be hard-pressed to give you a particular list of ingredients. (On top of that they are usually written in badly abbreviated Latin - I have occasionally tried to decipher these recipes using a medical ingredients encyclopedia from the mid 1800s and a Latin dictionary from that period, but it's very hit-and-miss.) They even used licorice as a flavoring agent, although not the black (or red) twisted candy we commonly think of. Hey, this is getting interesting and you're forcing me to do research so I'd like to split the relevant bits of this out under an appropriate heading and put in Twill so I can find it again. Is that OK?

Interesting. I found no reference in the stuff I'm reading to black salivation and they do so love to talk about the colors of things in many period medical books. Wiki doesn't mention it in the article on Mercury poisoning either. This doesn't mean it wouldn't happen (and I certainly am no expert on Mercury poisoning - all I know is what I read in the papers.) Here is a very interesting article on Mercury poisoning from the 1850s - which is when Mercury must still have been used as a medicine based on the content of the paper. (Most modern references to Hg poisoning seem to relate to small quantities as opposed to what would have been administered during period.) It would be interesting to see a source for black saliva since a Googled glance around the internet for Mercury in combination with black spit, black spittle and black saliva didn't turn anything salient up. Hg poisoning does cause bleeding of the lungs which might look black when coughed up. Mercury can also oxidize and turn black, so if it were vomited up after being ingested that may suggest a black substance coming from the mouth. Actually, if this were true, I wonder if it would be related to their concept of the humor called "black bile"? I haven't really found much to explain why they thought on of the humors would be black bile, although it seems to me Hippocrates mentions it somewhere... I found this interesting from the article I cite (as related to my previous post): "In many old histories of syphilis, it is too painfully apparent to as that a large part at least of the recorded symptoms was due to the enormous amounts of mercury given. This practice generally arose from the notion that the elimination of the morbid poison depended solely on the continuance and degree of salivation."

I just found this interesting, so I thought I'd re-print it. It's not really gross like some of the other stuff, so the squeamish should have no trouble with it. It's another bit from Matthais Purmann's book Chirurgia curiosa. And I can't resist posting a few of his medicinal cures because they are as absolutely bizarre as his explanation for how birthmarks come to be:

Ah, some more fun details from Purrman for those of you who wish to accurately represent the period. "At first 'tis only a Breaking out, or a dry Scab; afterward a Ficosa or filthy Scald; then a Corrosive Scald, and at last an Heredetary Scald. At first they are but Pimples, or small Ulcers in the Skin upon the Head, which are not apt to change their Colour very early, but at length grow Yellowish, moist, and throw out a sharp itching Sanious Matter, spread further and render the Skin Rough, Uneven, and causes the Hair to fall off. At length they turn to dry Scales, under which are abundance of Holes, containing filthy Matter, something less Thick and Viscous, but is now more malignant with an Increase of Ulcers, which at last grow Dry, Yellow, Greenish, Black and Nasty." (Purmann, p. 43)

Mercury would cause you to salivate, not foam black at the mouth. In fact, that was one of the reasons they gave it - the salivation was thought to remove the syphilitic illness, probably along the lines of balancing the humors. (Phlegm is one of the humors.) Here's something related from John Moyle's account of 'curing' a syphilitic patient, "A Man aged 42 Years had the Siphylis to a high Degree". It's taken from his book Memoirs: Of many Extraordinary Cures. "Sometimes he washed his Mouth with warm Milk, which eased much, besides he had a Linteolum rouled, which he held between his Teeth to keep his Mouth open, in time of Salivating, as also a Spitting Pot, so that it was known what quantity he Salivated in the Day and Night, which was three Pints a Day at first, and at last two Quarts, to which stent I held him, for when it grew Languid, through Cold accidentally taken, he had a warm Enema Injected, which caused him to Spit the better, or if a Looseness happened, he had Diacordium, or Laudanum given to stop it." (Moyle, p. 87) (Sorry, Matthew. I was trying to stay out of this and hoped it would get back on topic, but we can't have Cross going about spreading vicious and untrue rumors about the Mercury ship's surgeon and his methods, which follow the practices prescribed by the Ancients and affirmed by contemporary Chyrurgical authors like Moyle.)

Hey, Pete. Are these your younglings? Nifty. That sure is a pretty 4-4-0 with a balloon stack there, too.

And now for a complicated (and very painful-sounding) dental treatment, courtesy of the Dutch author Matthias Gottfried Purmann, from his book Chirurgia curiosa, translated into English by William Cowper in 1705. (Feel free to skim the medical recipes, unless you can decipher mysteriously abbreviated Latin.) Oh, and I love the use of the word 'dentifrice.' (It's a word you don't get to see often enough, even though toothpaste is, in fact, a dentifrice.) "In December 1678, I had under Cure a Boatswain of a Ship at Strahlfund, where I was then Quartered, being Chirurgeon to a Brandenburg Regiment: He was about 36 years of Age, named Hans Peterson, he had a Spongy Excrescence on the lower Part of the Left Side, which happened by the Inartful drawing of a Tooth, by which the Maxilla was Fissurated. Having diligently examined and considered the Parts, I spread the following Mass upon Linen indifferently thick, and applied it to the Fungus, renewing it every three Hours. Rx. Pulv. Cinam. Caryophill. ana {dram}ss Coral. rubr. ppt. Rad Pyrethr. ana {dram} jss. Porcellan. ppt. Lap. Sillic. ppt. ana {dram}ij. Alum. crud. Ocul Cancr. ana. {dram}j. Sangu. Draconis {scruple}j. Misce cum s. q. mell. Rosar. Ad mass formam. This succeeding well in the beginning, I continued it, and also used this Water very often. Rx. Rad. Tromentil. {ounce}ij. Serpentar. {ounce}j. Flor. Rosa. Rubr. Balaust. Lupul. Gland. ana. {dram}vj. misce. Boil all these together in Aqu. Cochlear. and Aqu. Salviæ of each a Quart, and afterward add as much Alum to it as will render it indifferent Sharp: But if the Distemper is accompanied with any great Pain, then use the following Water. Rx. Rasur. Lign. Gutac. {dram}j. Fol. Nicotrant. Mjss Rad. Pyrethr. {dram}ij. Caryophillor. Sem. Hyoscyam. ana. {dram}j. Coque in s. q. Aqu commun. Colat. Adde Essent. Anodyn {scruple}ij. vel Laud. liquid. Tartaris {scruple}ij. Misce & Fungo applicetur. This Excellent Dentifrice may be used in many other dolorous Infirmities of the Teeth and Gums, only applying it a little warm It performed its part very well in this Patient, but yet it would not heal; which gave me Reason to think, that the Jaw-bone was Carious; whereupon I cut away the Flesh, and as soon as the Bleeding was stopt, it might easily be perceived and having taken out more than three Splinters from the Jaw bone, I scraped and Cauterized it, and the Patient in Six Weeks time was perfectly Cured.” (Purrman, p 36)

You might like to take a look at this topic as I think there were some references thrown around in there. (I'd tell you to search for 'tavern' but the search function sucks ass. Stynky, fix the search function!)

He said it first. I was just repeating.

Oh no! The illusion is shattered!