blackjohn

Reconstructing History use to sell charts. I don't know if they still do or not. From what I've been told, they don't. A pity, 'cause I purchased two charts from them and they are fabulous.

You must have picked the correct two. I have one, and I'd give it a rating of... not all that good.

Then again, my day job is quality assurance for an actual nautical charting group, and I have very high standards.

a nice, piping hot cup, of coffee...

Thank you john, always a wealth of info.

Thanks. And hey, it's always nice to see you back here hanging out with us old pirates!

That's interesting, I thought mass production came about during the industrial revolution in the late 1700's, I stand corrected. Still not quite mass produced as products are today or mass distributed. There wasn't a "Ye old Target or Walmart in every town."

I'll blame the education system, which I think is a bit Amerocentric.

The book I have goes on to talk about how, in the 1760s, a machine stamping process was invented for buckles. They stamped stamping out buckles like crazy, and as the 18thC progressed, the grew and grew in size, becoming more fancy, with open work and filigree and all sorts of cool stuff. Someone also invented a process to silver-plate copper during that time. It seems like the late-18thC was the real hey-day of the big buckle.

There's probably more I could add to our thread since last we discussed the topic.

things were not mass produced as they are today, meaning almost everything you bought and or stole was custom or hand made.

A buckle-making industry was established in Birmingham in the beginning of the 18thC. By the middle of the century, they were producing over 2 million buckles per annum.

The London Beer Flood

Not to be confused with the Boston Molasses Disaster!

Which would you prefer?

For drinking, or dodging?!?!

The London Beer Flood

Not to be confused with the Boston Molasses Disaster!

Fun article.

"Later, Calagione and McGovern re-created the dinner at the tomb site in Gordion, with locals dressed in period costumes taking part."

Drinking recreated alcoholic beverages while dressed in period attire. That's what I call an evening of fun.

In all honesty, if that thread is an "extreme example" then I am not concerned with anybody having taken offense. Far from a pack of wolves on a wounded deer, I first see four positive and constructive posts before one person voices a harsh critique. This does side track the query, but then Blackjohn tries to steer it back on course. There are a few humorously snarky comments following that, but if this is the sort of thing that scares people away then perhaps pyracy is not their calling. [/font][/size]

The one that springs to my mind is one with bucket boots (as I recall). There was a woman who really got rather upset, and complained that the authentic types were being abusive. It went round and round for awhile. She left. Yada yada.

And now, I'm going camping!

Michael, you left out the fantasy pirates. I like the term fantasy pirate because it describes their kit and I think a lot of fantasy re-enactors would appreciate that term. Hollywood is fantasy stuff. So are pirates with fairy wings, pirates in ren-fair tights, pirates festooned with myriad cool-looking skulls and many of the pirates who wear 73 pounds of weapons and gadgets on their belts.

I was just thinking the same, then decided I liked Fantastical instead. Fantasy has swords and sorcery implications to much of the population these days.

And for the record, I've voting against "stitch-counter". Being of a military bent, I'd prefer something more martial, like hobnail-counter or rivet-counter.

And although it has been a long while back, I have seen instances of newbies being literally attacked on this forum for asking a simple question like "What do you think of this shirt I'm thinking of buying?" In that particular instance, the newbie disappeared and never posted again. And I'm sure he didn't have very many kind things to say about the Pub. Nothing like that has happened in a long time, but I use it as an extreme example of how language can be hurtful.

The infamous red shirt debacle in Plunder of October 2006, no doubt...

https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=8810

Sweet! I look like a good guy in that thread!

Yes, but I was referring to the pub, and the impact of such language here for the most part.

Ah. My mistake. I misunderstood and took community as being something larger.

Some like to do things one way. Some another. Human nature on the tribal level.

So, are you saying that you think dividing groups is a better solution than trying to find ways to peacefully co-exist or try to cross cultures, so to speak, to expand (knowledge, horizons, membership, understanding, what have you)?

I believe there will always be a yin and a yang. That is the way of things. I also believe they are not mutually exclusive.

I am not sure I follow you. Why do I need to make a choice concerning my point of view?

Oh heck no! I was just wondering if you were heading towards making some sort of suggestion about getting rid of Twill, or some other sort of thing.

Possibly. But, I don't believe there is an overall community. I believe there are many and varied communities. Sometimes and in some places they overlap. Like here, for instance.

Really? How would you define the pub is not a community?

And what positives do you see in dividing the groups?

Some like to do things one way. Some another. Human nature on the tribal level.

In light of your last questions, let me attempt to clarify.

I came to the discussion with the sentiment (or point of view) that the shorthand used in the community - on both sides of PCness - was potentially damaging and divisive, and even more so since an internet forum subtracts all the metacommunication that informs face-to-face communication.

I still hold that point of view.

Given that, what do you see as your choices?

Btw, bag that "teaching the public" stuff. The public wants bread and circuses!

Personally, I prefer cider and brothels.

Hawkyns

A man of refined tastes.

That's a nice definition (of reenactment, not re-enactors, NB.) It's still open to wide variances in interpretation. (But then, all definitions are. Whole wars are fought over such things. (So maybe we should all go out and re-enact one as penance. ))

Between you and me, I sometimes wonder at what sort of good we could do if we put all of this energy into something that would benefit mankind.

You don't see benefit in what we do? Because I actually do.

Check the winkie emoticon. But yeah, sometimes I do wonder. But I'm a wondering kind of guy. Sometimes when wondering I come to the same conclusion you just did. Sometimes I don't.

Whole wars are fought over such things. (So maybe we should all go out and re-enact one as penance. )

Btw, bag that "teaching the public" stuff. The public wants bread and circuses!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_reenactment

That's a nice definition (of reenactment, not re-enactors, NB.) It's still open to wide variances in interpretation. (But then, all definitions are. Whole wars are fought over such things. (So maybe we should all go out and re-enact one as penance. ))

Between you and me, I sometimes wonder at what sort of good we could do if we put all of this energy into something that would benefit mankind.

"Due to a lack of tactfulness on her part" YES! That is what I am trying to point out. AGAIN, I am not implying malicious intent, but attempting to show how exactly such lack of tact is harmful to the community overall.

Possibly. But, I don't believe there is an overall community. I believe there are many and varied communities. Sometimes and in some places they overlap. Like here, for instance.

Now, what was the "..." alluding to, because I don't think I understand.

"And by being passionate about her hobby. And because [an example of how people wade through stuff] the stuff you write here doesn't go away."

Sorry if that was confusing.

No, as I said, I came with a particular sentiment. Which has nothing to do with expectation. A sentiment is defined as a singular point of view. It has nothing to do with expectations - which are suppositions at best or assumptions at worst.

Is it safe to equate sentiment with feeling? I would assume so. If you felt a certain way, doesn't it follow that your feelings colored your expectations?

If not, what exactly was the sentiment that changed? That we are not one big happy family?

Unfortunately, there is no universally accepted definition for what a reenactor is (at least not at the level of detail in which you have defined the word). While they don't have a definition for reenactor, the Dictionary at Freedictionary (my favorite dictionary website) says this for reenactment:

How long does it take to get a word or a new definition added into the dictionary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reenactment

I believe that is fairly accurate. Though it does use terms some may find questionable.

But, how did she get the reputation of being a "notorious thread counter"?

Due to a lack of tactfulness on her part. And by being passionate about her hobby. And because...

I find that if you want to discuss English sea farers or pirates or slops that all you really need to do is wade thru all the past topics to find the information you need and most likely that information has been hashed over and over again.

The stuff you write here doesn't go away. Those who have been here a long time have hopefully noticed people's attitudes evolving over time. Those who have just joined us see years worth of conversation condensed down into a few days worth (yeah, I know that's compressing it a bit) of reading. I believe the affect is that attitudes that were expressed years ago, that to me seem like water well under the bridge, might seem like some to be current events.

Lady Bower - I started with pretty much the same sentiment. Good luck.

So upon starting your journey here you had set a certain level of expectation? And those expectations weren't met?

Perhaps that is true. It is certainly not outside the realm of possibility that I, and the others who have stated they don't feel comfortable posting in Twill are projecting personal insecurities or assuming worst case scenarios with a mistaken belief that events are arenas of critical audience.

Then again, some people have posted here, stating that despite their love of PCness, despite their desire to strive to be as authentic as possible, despite how confident they feel that their portrayal is close as they can get with their current knowledge (which they have no intention of not further refining) and despite the fact that they read these threads to be more informed - they don't post here either. That says something to me. Doesn't it speak to you?

Further, while I appreciate your anecdote, I am not sure it applies - as I stated above, there are critical terms in evidence in Twill. Those terms set a precedent for the possible expectation of criticism.

"There are a lot of long words in there, Miss. We're naught but humble pirates."

To answer your question, yes, it does speak to me. Hence my anecdote, the point of which is The Notorious Thread Counter isn't as notorious as people believe.

I think it is sad that I feel apprehensive about wearing new kit to an event because I fear I will be spoken to as if I am an idiot...

I was once at an event with a notorious thread counter. Said notorious thread counter and I were talking, and this is what she said, "you know, people always think I'm going to go over their crap with a fine-toothed comb and be critical of them at events. The truth is, I'm so busy going over my own stuff that I don't have time to be concerned with how anyone else looks at an event, even if I wanted to."

I think people worry too much. Certainly people worry too much about what they believe other people may think.

You see, that sort of perfectly illustrates my point.

As an Admin here, my job is to make sure things run smoothly. I personally believe things do run smoothly here. But I want to make sure I'm not deluding myself. Ergo, I was asking you to address specific problems as they occurred inside of actual Twill threads (other than these debate type threads, where we see more headbutting than is usual).

If Twill was all about aspiring to understand history, the learn and preserve the skills of the past, or to better arm yourself with knowledge to educate the public, then I doubt this thread would exist.

As such, I have to ask: if that *IS* what it is all about, then why the insulting language, the condescension and the need to put others down?

If you don't mind, would you please be so kind as to produce examples of "the insulting language, the condescension and the need to put others down" found in Twill.

Well... I'm kinda partial to the Gibson Girl look... or the Minoan Snake Goddess look.