Desert Pyrate

As of yesterday, Picton has made her turn south, to sail where Laura would have wanted them to go.

...for those in peril on the sea...

Below deck, on almost every period schooner, she'd be as open as possible. No sole or excessive bulkheads.

Being new to the world of east coast sailing, I only met the Nyckel and her master once. But I couldn't recount the number of times I've heard former Nyckel hands speak fondly of their "Cap".

Fair winds.

Eternal Father, strong to save

Whose arm hath bound the restless wave.

Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep

Its own appointed limits keep

Oh hear us when we cry to thee

For those in peril on the sea.

Surely! I'm waiting on a friend to return my camera, and for my next order of seine twine to show up so I can finish the one I'm making for pictures.

Ahoy mates.

As some of you who've been around for a while have no doubt noticed, I don't post here very often. I've started identifying more as a sailor, rather than just a pirate. It's where I've spent most of my time, and it's where my knowledge is. That being said... I've a question for all of you.

One of the more common ways for a sailor (and yes, this includes pirates) to spend time was to do rope/knotwork. This was rarely just for practice - there was plenty of that during work hours. Instead, it'd be some personal effect. One of the more common items that I've seen made are sennit lanyards made out of tarred twine (don't worry, the tar doesn't get all over the place). They're of any length you like, are *very* strong, and you can use them for anything you want - keychains comes to mind for the non-sailor, but the sailor use is to attach them to all your rig stuff (knife, fid, etc.) so that they're attached to your sheath/belt. And, they're neat looking!

To make a long story short... is anyone interested in adding to their sailor/pirate impression by acquiring some gen-u-wine lanyards to their collection? They're not common outside the tallship trade, and you'd be helping out a student/sailor (might be the World's Poorest Combination). How much would you be willing to pay for such a product? PMs or responses to the thread are welcome. Thanks!

I haven't read that anywhere... but that doesn't mean anything! What were your sources (and I'm not really interested in the History Channel as a source having first-hand seen their dedication to accuracy)?

I've never seen ships with a whole lot of extra ornamentation. The most ornamented ship I've ever seen is the Kalmar Nyckel, and the decoration isn't additional stuff added to the ship so much as carvings into the wood that's already there. As for removing raised portions, deckhouses weren't really popular at the time, and forecastles/sterncastles aren't easily removable.

Below decks: on warships, most partitions were temporary and movable anyway. On merchant ships, there just weren't partitions: it was all open below decks. More room for cargo that way. There was probably one little partition into an aft cabin - not worth removing. *If* there was a foc's'le, there might have been another little partition: also not worth removing.

The thing to remember is that the ships being taken were themselves very practical. There's not room for a lot of superfluous crap.

Ships don't really have anything there to strip!

The hold was already clear of partitions, and there's nothing superfluous in the rig or on deck. Weight is an issue: Drake dumped his guns to take more loot.

The time of "infamously fast" was really the early to mid 19th century with the Baltimore Clippers and the tea ships: of course there were still pirates, but it's well out of the GAoP.

Like I said before: a combination of ship and sail does not necessarily produce speed. Lots of weather and seamanship factors also come into play. The more canvas, the faster (generally), although this raises the ship's CG and changes the righting curve so that she's more willing to fall over and not self-right in a squall or microburst condition.

The idea of an absolute fastest ship is not really a fair question. There are ships that have a higher top speed than others, but that's a hull question, not so much a rig question. Moreover, each rig is quick on a particular point of sail.

Anything with a preponderance of square sails will be fastest with the wind on a quarter. Schooners and the like are fastest when on a reach.

Here's a real world example, seen with my own two eyes.

It starts, like all sea stories do, with the immortal phrase "So there we were".

So there we were on the Columbia River, upriver from Portland/Vancouver. The river was running strong (4/5 kts), and the wind was blowing straight out of the west. In other words, the wind was blowing up river (not uncommon on coastal rivers - the Sacramento also does this a lot). Brig Lady Washington and Schooner Lynx were tied up before a sail. When we went out, we decided to leave the engine off the whole time, even getting off the dock. The Lady (bluff bowed and square rigged) slipped out into the current, and was just managing headway against the river (so slowly that after an hour, we were just a boatlength forward of the dock). Lynx on the other hand, despite being a brand new state-of-the-art Baltimore Clipper (frequently cited as some of the fastest tall ships ever) made significant sternway. She launched her tops'l, course, and stuns'ls, and still fell behind.

This should make intuitive sense: the more sail that can directly face the wind, the better off you'll be.

As for "best choice", it all depends on your mission. Sorry to keep being so vague.

If your mission is to get a bunch of ships together and pound the crap out of another bunch of ships, buy yourself a whole line filled with first raters.

If your goal isn't to pound the crap out of anything (probably because you're poor and sinking ships is a costly endeavour - this is where pirates fit in), get yourself something small that can be crewed with relatively few men. Again, it depends on the waters to be sailed. For long passages, either for running contraband/cargo, I'd probably take a smallish brig - but I've got a square fetish. I've never met a brigantine that I love, so scratch that. For short runs or effective beating to windward, I'd have to go with a schooner or tops'l ketch. Brigs can't go to weather for beans - again, it's all that square canvas.

Another part of your question that you didn't ask was about hull type. The by-now-familiar answer applies: depends on the mission. Bluff bows take a lot of power to push through the water, but there's no lateral resistance to turning. Sharp bows (like on the Baltimore Clippers) move forward easily, but have lots of resistance to turning. You can see this putting your hand out of the window in a car. It's a lot easier to control the movement of your hand if you're making a fist instead of having it flat.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask for clarification on any of this.

Properly, she'd be a barque - square rigged on two masts, fore-and-aft on the third. A brig is two masted, square-rigged on both.

That said, 1606 rig terminology is vastly different than now. The use of the word "barque" for a particular rig didn't come into vogue until the 19th century. I'm not real up on early Dutch rigs, but I think she's a fluyt.

Harland's "Seamanship in the Age of Sail" is indispensable. After all: pirates are sailors first.

If you're thinking pirate, start thinking small. Our idea of pirate ships as frigate size or bigger is about like that picture of the great cabin table... nice, but inaccurate.

Pirates used tiny ships: sloops, cutters, ketches, some brigs, and eventually schooners. Think open gundecks, think small multi-purpose compartments, in the rare case that there were compartments at all. Men sleeping everywhere: someone's got to crew all those prize ships. You'd not have a place of your own, when you're on watch someone else has your spot.

Think shallow-draft - got to slip in and out of littoral waters. Shallow-draft means not much room below deck, especially because the small quick ships don't have much freeboard. Almost certainly there'd be only one level below deck.

Batavia and Surprise/Rose are too big for pirates, except for the very rare case: as is often said, don't make the rare common and the common rare.

Small, small, small. And crowded and stinking. And dark below deck.

It depended very much on the mission of the ship.

For a frigate-type vessel, the film Master & Commander gets it very right.

Little sloops of war that didn't have a seperate gun deck would be filled with provisions below the waterline. Crew would sleep on provisions and on hammocks wherever there was room. Generally, the deck was open below.

On a merchant vessel, cargo was king (then and now). The website of Lady Washington, a merchant brig of 90 tons, has a great picture: http://ladywashington.org/dsthenandnow.jpg

Where would the crew sleep in the above picture? Anywhere they could. The little cabin just forward of the chart table would be for the master and mate.

Hope this helps.

I don't post here much... but yeesh. Not only are we resurrecting an old thread when there's a new version on the same front page of the topic, but the last post is referring a superstition mentioned on the first page OF THIS VERY THREAD.

Ah, the dream! I really wished I knew how you all do it. I always figure you are all very wealthy or you have the ability to take very long vacations. I am envious! Beautiful ship by the way...okay, back to dreaming...

As someone who "does it", it mainly takes the willingness to completely drop your shoreside lifestyle. You *can* do it, and you *can* get paid for it. Not much, but enough. That's another thing... you've got to be willing to live "differently" than you're used to.

Matt Ouimet, the guy in charge, thinks they detract from a fun spontaneous visiting of the park, and make it too structured and stressful, especially for new visitors. I have to say I agree.

Well you know, just as in hollywood, a movie slated to be "the best ever", isn't always, so to base commenting on such a billing rather than the content and it's intent is unfair. I don't know most of the people here, nor do I know any historians or people that did any of the re-enacting, But I did what people from outside our pirate relm did....I watched and listened, and learned some things I didn't know. Maybe instead of tearing apart each and everything in it, as I have read through all 5 pages of this post, we should just watched (like or dislike) and take it for what it was...a low budget, fair attempt to inform and entertain the masses.(as I somewhat stated previously).

I honestly have never seen a group of people so brutal and demeaning to an attempt at enlightening the masses. In all honesty, if you really think it was that poorly done, ( that means all the comments about location, actors doing multiple parts, the wrong type of ships, clothing, authenticity, and the like), I would like to see you do better. It is easy to cast stones when sitting at your computer or in your easy chair, but if it were you out there, I think things would be different.

I do sincerely hope this is not the way all things are treated here. I am new here still, but from what I have seen thus far it may be a short stay at this port.

Ok, speaking as someone who was there for the filming, I can tell you that they could have done better for no extra money. They utterly ignored input from people on set who knew better than they did. They outright told the sailors that once the ship is sailing, pirates just sat around blind-drunk. On other historical points (terms used in the language, etc.), they told us to stop bothering them with these details, that "no one will care".

So in summary, I was "out there", mate. And they could have done better.

But like I keep saying, it paid the bills for a lot of boats.

Actually if anyone has a DVD of this, I'd love to see it. I don't have the Hallmark channel, and one of my good sailor friends got hired on to go film in Thailand with them for a few months.

I can highly recommend Harland's Seamanship in the Age of Sail. It's sort of an operations manual for a sailing ship.

Yep, you sure as heck did a nice job, RR. Even the MOB pole was covered up - did well for the brief closeup of it. The only thing that really bugged me a whole lot (aside from the costumes) was the ships. Like has been already said, a few of them weren't even designs in the 18th century. Whatever, though. It pays the bills for the boats, and that's what I'm worried about. Plus, it was cool to watch meself on the ol' TV.

Yes, it does take a tremendous amount of force, but not as much as you might think. There is usually enough force acting on a mast to snap it, but it's counterbalanced by an equal force going the opposite direction. In this case, the bobstay iron on the bowsprit broke, causing a failure of the sprit. This killed the heads'ls and also got rid of all the forward-pulling pressure. At this point, without the heads'ls, the Pride rounded up into the wind, and the square-tops'l provided even more backpressure on the foremast. This caused the foremast to carry, and the main soon followed. At least, this is how I understand it.

Agreed, Hawkyns.

A couple of things: swords, almost always, belonged to the ship. There's just NO reason to wear one around whilst aboard. They get in the way. Any excessive fabric/clothing/stuff gets in the way or gets caught up in something at a crucial moment. Proper shoes are vital. In fact, most tall ships that require period clothing say "except for footwear".

Hats: go with a watch cap, or a rag. Maybe a tricorn. A brimmed hat is acceptable for later periods, but tie it on!

Speaking of tying things on: one of the marks of a sailor is that everything that can seperate from them (fid, knife, etc) is tied on with a length of marline or seine twine (called a 'nip'). Speaking of fid/knife (colloquially called your 'rig'): you have to have one. There were no sailors who didn't carry them. Knives are above all, practical. They get the crap beat out of them, so remember that. Drop-point is popular to prevent accidental stabbings.

Personally, my kit is a waistcoat, a pair of slops, and a shirt. Add watchcap if it gets cold. Knife and marlinspike attached via lanyards. It just works better (and I say this from *knowing* what works better, having sailed 18th tall ships in a wide variety of gear; for months and months combined underway time).

Well, having spent more than a bit of time as a tall ship sailor (2nd Mate Ketch Royaliste, Deckhand Brig Lady Washington), I have my share of injuries. Luckily, none too bad: prudence is always in the mind of sailors.

I have a wicked scar on my leg (not an exciting story, just a metal box with a sharp edge). A little scar on my arm accrued at some point on Royaliste. At least one concussion from Royaliste's main boom (since removed; we run loose-footed now). Countless nasty cuts, bruises, scrapes, burns, etc.

What's interesting now is my hands. After a couple weeks of not being aboard, they're starting to lose their calluses... always looks like I've got some sort of skin condition.

For any o' ye scabberous dogs wot haven't been payin' attention, the good Ship will be attendin' festivals in Oxnard, Los Angeles, San Diego and Dana Point.

It was *not* 200 years any time recently. According to www.hms-victory.com : 200th Anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar, 21st Oct 2005.

This battle did not happen in July. Napoleon didn't even issue preliminary orders until August.

Yep. Closest thing I have to a job for the next few months is "tall ship sailor". After I'm done being a student, it'll be a full-time job for a few years. Both aboard Royaliste and the lovely Lady up in Washington.