stays and other female costume questions...

[withoutaname]

so I have been sitting here for a few weeks knowing it is that time where I need to make a decision about buying vs making stays is nearing. The last time I had them made and that was a few years and about 30 pounds ago and for the life of me, I can't remember who made them for me..anyway getting to the point

I have a changing midsection of size, extremely curvy and am hoping to lose about 20 pounds before summer. Which brings me the challenge of do I tempt the fates and make my own and if I do how do I deal with the fact of possibly losing weight and the fact I am hourglass shape, under 5' with no midsection and stays are cylindrical and long in patterns- how do I deal with this challenge, find a pattern that will look flattering on me while still being accurate to GAoP

I have never sewn any corsets and I have always sewn by hand! I have sewn over dresses and fitted a lot of clothing to myself, but never anything as elaborate as stays- what am I getting into!?

Or do I order from someone, how long do they usually take to make, and does anyone have a recommendation of a reliable seamstress who isn't going to break the bank?

If it helps, my persona for reenactment purposes is still in development but I am basing myself as of now a healer (alchemy/herbal medicines as I have a base knowledge already from personal research) I would also be involved with my sailor of a partner who ran away with and i left my respectable mother (midwife) and father (merchant). So I also need to be considerate of my current social status with a tendency to lean toward the finer things when indulged-which leads toward the next question of sewing a mantua or wearing an jacket?

Your input is most valued.

[michaelsbagley]

I can speak to making period accurate stays, as I am just finishing up a set of hand-sewn ones for my girlfriend (she really is spoiled by me).... Anyways, I have been poking away at them a few hours here and there for a couple of months now. I think there was a whole month where I didn't even pick them up. If I had to guess, I would say that I have put about 20 hours into them total (using the Reconstructing History pattern Found HERE) or Reconstructing History sell completed stays as well (view those here) and RH sells unbound stays that require some finishing but are mostly finished (view those here)....

I have also made a set of machine sewn stays using the above mentioned patter... That took me about three evenings working just a few hours each evening (about 6 to 9 hours work?).

In my experience, the edge binding is actually easier to sew by hand. The boning channels are MUCH easier to sew by machine, so doing a bit of a mix of machine and hand sewing in my opinion is the easiest way to go. As for complexity, I didn't find the back lacing stays difficult at all... Although I have been looking at the instructions for the front lacing stays, which I am also considering making for the lady, and those instructions confused me at first, but an email to Kass at Reconstructing History helped clear that up easy enough.

Hope this has helped....

Edit - I should mention, that the 20 hours I mentioned above has the stays mostly done, NOT all done, I would say that I still have about another 5 to 8 hours work to put into them (give or take).

[LadyBarbossa]

I'm a rather full figured woman myself, in the plus sizes actually. But I'm absolutely confortable in my stays which I made a few years ago, too.

They adjust in the front and also in the back.

Another lass who use to be on here a couple years ago always suggested having the ties laced either to the middle or from the middle going up and also going down. That way you can regulate the width to comfort. which, is true. it's a good idea.

It's not all that hard at all, a bit time consuming. Boning - that's up to you what you use, I use reeding. Cheap, holds up well, breathable in the summer months, etc. But does need to be replaced once or twice a year depending upon how many times you wear your stays.

It's that trim I never got down to and I HATED doing it. So, I cut it off and left the ends open to replace the reed boning as often as I needed to.

JP Ryan pattern for stays I liked. Don't know how GAoP they are. But they can't be that far off. They are the shoulderless ones.

Now, folks 'll suggest a fabric mock up of the stays, but msot have told me use cardboard. and aye, attempt with cardboard. That'll give you and idea of the stiffness and the length, width, etc of the stays before you use the actual fabric.

I wish you luck with your pair of stays.

~Lady B

[CrazyCholeBlack]

I have a changing midsection of size,  extremely curvy and am hoping to lose about 20 pounds before summer. Which brings me the challenge of do I tempt the fates and make my own and if I do how do I deal with the fact of possibly losing weight and the fact I am hourglass shape, under 5' with no midsection and stays are cylindrical and long in patterns- how do I deal with this challenge, find a pattern that will look flattering on me while still being accurate to GAoP

OK lots to cover there. I'll start by saying I'm a huge proponent of stays so that's the side you're going to hear

To deal with loosing weight you have a few options. 1. front & back lacing made to have a larger gap until you have lost the weight 2. back lacing & removing a section & boning in the back (resewing the eyelets as needed) when you loose 3. making an entirely new set if you loose enough, "harvesting" the parts from the over sized pair as needed.

Now, honestly, your shape doesn't matter. Any woman can have well fitting stays & all well fitting stays are flattering on any body shape/type. Seriously, this is where we moderns are missing out. Stays are comfortable & flattering & make women look *good*!

I have never sewn any corsets and I have always sewn by hand! I have sewn over dresses and fitted a lot of clothing to myself, but never anything as elaborate as stays- what am I getting into!?

The trick is in the fitting. If you've done any kind of fitting before then stays aren't going to be any more complicated. They are just 4 layers of fabric with stuffed tunnels & binding. It's more a matter of the time than the skill needed. There are fitting tricks though. Cardboard mock-ups, duct tape doubles and lost of patience.

Remember, if you are making your own stays, don't be afraid to really resize the parts that you need to make the stays comfortable for you. Don't feel constrained by the pattern. For example, I radically altered the strap arrangement on my stays. The wider straps were not comfortable on my narrow shoulders. It took time & patience but the end was a comfortable pattern that fits me (& me only )

So I also need to be considerate of my current social status with a tendency to lean toward the finer things when indulged-which leads toward the next question of sewing a mantua or wearing an jacket?

Ahh, there's the rub. If you're planning on doing strictly GAoP events then a mantua is the most common garment for women in all classes. However if you are planning on doing any other 18th C "eras" then your most mileage will come from a bed jacket (ie The Manteau de Lit). Similar but different garments. You could get away with a bed jacket at a GAoP event because most people won't know what is "correct" for the period, where as (IME) wearing a mantua at a later 18th C event, everyone will know that it's different & approach you with questions. Makes getting to "the boxes" a little interesting

Boning - that's up to you what you use, I use reeding. Cheap, holds up well, breathable in the summer months, etc. But does need to be replaced once or twice a year depending upon how many times you wear your stays.

Interesting Lady B. I've never heard that or had a problem with the reed in my stays. Granted I've only worn them for ~42 days in the past year. I have slept in them more than once though I honestly wouldn't expect to have to replace reed regularly. If nothing else they should mold to the wearers shape & replacing means you have to start that shaping all over again. The few times I've heard of broken reeds were either cases of tight lacing (a no-no even in period) or in half boned stays where each reed has to do more/ take more stress. If breaking is a problem I might consider fully boning to lessen the stress on individual reeds.

[HildeKitten]

Well Michael beat me to it in recommending Reconstructing History :)

You know, you could always try making yours before buying stays. The RH patterns are all VERY good.

And the thing is, if you still have questions/problems after having read the instructions that come with their patterns, you can always drop Kass a line and she'll help you out :)

Good luck, make sure to post pictures of the finished result, whether you've bought them or made them yourself!

[michaelsbagley]

Okay, here they are... Finally completed...

One set of completely hand sewn stays.... I have to still buy ribbon and lacing that macthes the stays better, but for the sake of trying them on and testing final fit, those colours worked.

[HildeKitten]

Those look fab Michael!

Those are made with the RH pattern right?

[michaelsbagley]

Those look fab Michael!

Those are made with the RH pattern right?

They are indeed made from the RH pattern. The one change I made in the pattern instructions was I did the edge binding on the individual pieces, and then joined the edges together... I just thought it would make for a nice look on otherwise rather plain stays. I think the method I used would be more impactful if I used it on a more colourful fabric with a good contrasting colour (maybe a future project there)...

[Mary Diamond]

Well done!

[withoutaname]

the stays look great!! I am so impressed (and inspired)

[withoutaname]

I have started a blog of my adventure in making stays: http://almostescaped.blogspot.com/

Getting close to the half way point :) Thanks for all your help getting me started!

[michaelsbagley]

Awesome work!

Can't wait to see the finished stays on you!

And tell Captain Grumpypants that he has to be more supportive about your project or the next set of stays you make will be for him. That should get him to stop grumbling...

[withoutaname]

Awesome work!

Can't wait to see the finished stays on you!

And tell Captain Grumpypants that he has to be more supportive about your project or the next set of stays you make will be for him. That should get him to stop grumbling...

Actually, Capitan Crankypants is much more "tolerant" since it went from cardboard to fabric :) Now that I think about it so am I. I have a habit of starting big productions and then, never finishing them! I think he was worried that 4 yards of linen would remain on the coffee table next to the mock up until I put them in the "storage bedroom" never to be worked on again.

I am trying to be less messy, such as picking up my project at the end of the night, rather than being a bad first mate of leaving everything out all over the floor for days at a time.

I also started using a new tactic- no threats bu extreme immobility of stays, but rather motivation by finishing a project and promising a linen shirt for him :)

Seems to help, in fact he bought me all sorts of sewing do-dads last week. And I have a Happy Captian Crankypants and a Cleaner first mate to boot!

P

lus we will be buying a new thread picker-up-er (vacuum) to help deal damage control

[Jack Roberts]

Michael, do you mind if I snag those pics? It would be nice to have a point of reference for making another pair someday. How is the fit underneath her arms? the first pair I made didn't come out quite right.

[Jack Roberts]

....and no the stays weren't for me.

[withoutaname]

....and no the stays weren't for me.

that was my first thought , thats for the clarification!

[michaelsbagley]

Michael, do you mind if I snag those pics? It would be nice to have a point of reference for making another pair someday. How is the fit underneath her arms? the first pair I made didn't come out quite right.

Help yourself Aminjiria,

Jessica was patient enough to let me take the pics to show the stays off, and I posted the pics to share and inspire... So please go nuts!

As for the arms, Jessica could probably speak to this better than I could, but we had no trouble to speak of in the fitting of the underarm. But I could see that becoming an issue on someone shorter.

Shana mentioned she was vertically challenged, she might have some good insight there...

Shana, when you were doing the fitting of your cardboard fitting pattern, did you have to trim a lot from the underarm area?

[withoutaname]

Shana mentioned she was vertically challenged, she might have some good insight there...

Shana, when you were doing the fitting of your cardboard fitting pattern, did you have to trim a lot from the underarm area?

Actually, I had to change a lot of the patten to fit my short stature... so on the first cardboard attempt (i wish I took pictures) the cardboard was more than flush to my underarm and 4 inches of space were between my body and the strap. Just shortening it didn't work either so I had to make a lot of adjustments to the curve and height of neckline, after which I encountered issues with not having enough under arm coverage or front side coverage for me.

At that point I had to add cardboard to fit, and adjust the under arms. There were a bunch more other adjustments that I had to do and a 2nd and 3rd mock up. Hopefully they are still close to accurate in cut, but even if they aren't- it will be the most personal fit garment I will ever own!

[Kate Souris]

Michael, do you mind if I snag those pics? It would be nice to have a point of reference for making another pair someday. How is the fit underneath her arms? the first pair I made didn't come out quite right.

I'm ok with you taking the photos for reference if you want them. I think I might have a few more angles floating around here if you decide that you want those too, PM me.

The fit of the stays under my arms is just about perfect. I'm pretty lanky though, so your lovely wife might need a bit of sizing going on when you make hers. Michael did make a neon pink set of stays for me out of posterboard so that we could make a good fitted pattern, so I highly reccomend that. That way you can see what pieces need to be trimmed down for her more vertically challenged frame.

[lady constance]

__ got 2 questions....

1.has anyone ever tried to take a store bought lace( or other wise} bustier and simply cover it with fabric? that way the boning is already inserted and if the bustier fits you, it goes pretty quick.....

you can use the iron on stiffening that is double sided and then simply sew it all together with bias tape on the edges.....

actually i have quite a bit of luck finding clothing at good will, opening seams and adjusting things... my kids arethe best costumed !!! LOL!! and the husband.....

2. can some one reccommend a skirt pattern?

i have bought a pattern or two from vogue that are ladies under garments and was planning to use them for skirts.....just going to modify the waist and grommet it in the back { or front}

lady constance, wife of the magnificent bob, mother to many

[Kate Souris]

__ got 2 questions....

1.has anyone ever tried to take a store bought lace( or other wise} bustier and simply cover it with fabric? that way the boning is already inserted and if the bustier fits you, it goes pretty quick.....

you can use the iron on stiffening that is double sided and then simply sew it all together with bias tape on the edges.....

actually i have quite a bit of luck finding clothing at good will, opening seams and adjusting things... my kids arethe best costumed !!! LOL!! and the husband.....

2. can some one reccommend a skirt pattern?

i have bought a pattern or two from vogue that are ladies under garments and was planning to use them for skirts.....just going to modify the waist and grommet it in the back { or front}

lady constance, wife of the magnificent bob, mother to many

1.) Yes and no. My friend Kim and I covered hers in duct tape so that she could be the duct tape fairy for Halloween.

The problem with the store bought bustiers is that most of them have plastic boning that just does not hold up. If you are going to do something like that, I would reccomend at least yanking out the plastic boning and replacing it with spring steel or reed. Honestly, Michael made a set of stays for our friend before he made mine, and it didn't take him more than a few hours on a sewing maching, so making them really isn't that bad.

2.) The EASIEST skirt pattern doesn't really require a pattern at all. It is simply two rectangles of fabric seamed together , knife pleated at the waist, a waistband added, then hooks and eyes to close up the sides.

If you wanted more of a circle skirt, this is a good website with instructions http://www.shira.net/make-cskirt.htm . But it does take ten yards at least and you need a huge space to be able to lay it all out in to cut the pieces.

I don't know if that helps or not. I hope so.

[lady constance]

Katherine,

YES! all of this information helps tremendously...!!!--

i have to say that i prefer a more period accurate garment... because history is involved and the more learning the better....! { the kids learn, i learn, the husband learns...could it be any better?} i think too, it gives opportunity to think critically about what life would have been like in those days... actually it causes gratitude for all the blessing we take for granted with modern life.... my family gets all excited about the fun of piracy, til i serve them period approprite food.......

so-- would the 2 pieces of rectangular fabric be more historically accurate?.... or would that be dependant upon what class of people i would be representing....{ i would prefer to think i came from a bit of aristocratic stock, fell in love with a pirate and my life changed for the better since i would know about the high life but live the real life of love with my man as my captain--we would import from our different worlds to eachother ---the finest we had to offer --LOL}

i HAVE read quite a few history books on fashion/garments for the period and am searching for a few art/painting books of the era for ideas about clothing.... i believe i am wanting something in between holly wood and history.....but if see it, i can sew it!!! all i need is a picture to do the reconstructing the garment in my head and taking it to fabric....

then there enters in the type of fabric used back then.... finding some thing that resembles it...

the majority of the problem that i run into alot ,is that my husband desires the sexy look of the pirate wench... which is not really a problem...

is a pirate wench even historically accurate? ... or did they just call them whores ??? which i would think i could then choose to dress myself any way i please, taking into account fashion at the time....

and never have i heard of steel boning??? nor reed boning...

suppose i will google it...

my thanks and appreciation for your answers and guidance...

i be needin to make a d'cision...

pax,

lady constance

[Kate Souris]

I highly reccomend checking out Kass' site http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/ and picking out a few patterns that you like. She's got some good stuff that is very accurate. I think that Michael and I might own every one of her pirate era patterns....and I want to get some of the Regency ones next!

And also check out this thread...good luck! https://pyracy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11469

[LadyBarbossa]

Boning - that's up to you what you use, I use reeding. Cheap, holds up well, breathable in the summer months, etc. But does need to be replaced once or twice a year depending upon how many times you wear your stays.

Interesting Lady B. I've never heard that or had a problem with the reed in my stays. Granted I've only worn them for ~42 days in the past year. I have slept in them more than once though I honestly wouldn't expect to have to replace reed regularly. If nothing else they should mold to the wearers shape & replacing means you have to start that shaping all over again. The few times I've heard of broken reeds were either cases of tight lacing (a no-no even in period) or in half boned stays where each reed has to do more/ take more stress. If breaking is a problem I might consider fully boning to lessen the stress on individual reeds.

Never really had much trouble breaking them. Just as you stated they tend to form to ya and that can be bothersome. So, I do replace them and they are easy to remove to wash the stays, too. Then replace with new reeding to fit more comfortably.

Constance.. Kate has a rather good suggestion there.

Yes, it's easy and simple to make the petticoats/skirts. I usually use on average 2 or 3 yards of fabric to make my petticoats. A small sliver to make the waist band and I use twill tape or small cotton webbing to make the ties on the side where there is a split no bigger than 7 inches for the pockets. and this allows for any waist adjustments, too. Absolutely fantastic and easy to make.

However, if you feel you need a pattern to give you an idea or help guide you, there is a butterick pattern out there that I suggest either Butterick patter 3640 or 4484. That's perhaps the closests I've seen compared to some of the books out there on historical clothing. Once you've made a petticoat historically like that, you won't forget it and it gets easier and easier to make.

Don't do drawstrings... the are worse to make, actually. I hate drawstrings. I like my petticoats better with the waistband and the pleats. :)

Hehehe... very good question, Constance.

:::Shrugs::: don't know. From what images I've seen of whores, they dressed almost similiar to normal women with the petticoat, some gown, maybe a hat, stockings, shoes. Not all that often did I see a pic of one wearing a neckkerchief/fichu or some cap or their petticoats to the ground. The outfit looked nice but was rather worn somewhat.

I don't think Gizelle and Scarlett (and other whores) from PotC were all that far off from the reality of what whores looked like back then.

The reed boning I heard about and a couple ladies suggested to me reed boning was easier during the summer months as they didn't conduct the heat and were cooler.

Whalebone isn't exactly a type of boning we can all use, so one does with what one can with what is available.

Just... don't get the plastic crap. Painful as the devil.

I wish ye luck, Constance, on yo'r quest.

~Lady B

[BluePuppy]

Katherine,

YES! all of this information helps tremendously...!!!--

i have to say that i prefer a more period accurate garment... because history is involved and the more learning the better....!

...

the majority of the problem that i run into alot ,is that my husband desires the sexy look of the pirate wench... which is not really a problem...

is a pirate wench even historically accurate? ... or did they just call them whores ??? which i would think i could then choose to dress myself any way i please, taking into account fashion at the time....

I really want to do historically accurate costumes, I just think they're so interesting

I just have a certain way that i want to do things that may not be accurate? i dunno

it's just my character =p

i dunno if pirate wenches are accurate either, you see so many of them :)

are stays somewhat hard to make?

(oh and to the person who posted Shira's circle skirt instructions, those are so great :) i made my first skirt for bellydance with that, before i had my sewing machine. pain in the neck to hand sew but it's such a great pattern)