Fox Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 OK, so I feel a little bit guilty about misleading people into looking at my boot thread (though I kinda feel vindicated by the fact that it did include a photo of a bit of genuine GAoP era seaman's footwear), so here's a better one for you. This leather hat was recovered from HMS Stirling Castle, the same ship the boot came from, which sank in 1703 on the Goodwin Sands. Photo courtesy of Ramsgate Maritime Museum Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Blimey! And I have thought all along that leather hats were not authentic! That's an awesome pic! Thanks Foxe! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Leather caps are mentioned in the ASC specs for the period, but there's a big difference between small caps and large hats. This is, so far as I know, the only piece of evidence for what we would call hats made from leather during the GAoP. I would still suppose that leather hats were far from common (and indeed, amongst seamen caps were generally more popular than hats anyway), but since it is such a fine example of a genuine GAoP era seaman's hat I thought it was well worth posting. Plus, I knew it would bring a smile to the leather hat fans' faces... Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 It looks like something Crocodile Dundee the Sailor might wear! Boy, Foxe, first boots and now leather hats! What is this world coming to... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 It will be earrings and waist sashes for everyone next!!! "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Amazing! Looks like a straght up fedora! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Roberts Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Posted on Aug 20 2006, 06:31 PM Amazing! Looks like a straght up fedora! Ditto! I was thinking the same thing. It in amazing condition. Have any more photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Sadly not, but I'm hoping to get to the Ramsgate Maritime Museum in the nearish future to inspect this item and others from the wreck - and rest assured I'll be taking my camera... :) Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Iron Jon would look great in this hat..... Bump for I J GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Cook Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Does anyone have any (estimated) measurements for the size of the brim (diameter, circumference, what have you...) and crown? I might be able to get a ballpark figure if I could figure out if that striped stick is there for reference, and if so, how to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sea Trade Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Lord help us, that is a ghastly hat. The last time I saw anything like it, the person wearing it was wearing a serape, drinking Boone's Farm Strawberry wine and listening to Molly Hatchet. Period correct or not, I still think leather hats make as much sense as wrought iron underpants. Red Sea Trade In days of old when ships were bold just like the men that sailed 'em, and if they showed us disrespect we tied 'em up and flailed 'em, often men of low degree and often men of steel, they'd make you walk the plank alone or haul you 'round the keel. --Adam and the Ants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Jon Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Iron Jon would look great in this hat.....Bump for I J GoF I don't think I'll be making or wearing one of those anytime soon! I was hoping for something that looked like this (without the chinstrap though!), which is much earlier than our period. Jonathan Washbourne "Jonathan Washbourne Junr of Bridgwater appeared in court and was ordered to pay £5 fees and charges or be publicly whipped 20 stripes for his abusive and uncivil behaviour to Elizabeth Canaday Late of said Bridgwater by Thrusting up or putting of a skunk under the Cloaths to her Naked Body And then saying he had Done the office of a midwife." (from The Plymouth Journal, July 1701) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Are you sure thats not a chamber pot and it's upside down? "Without caffine, I'd have no personality at all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Jon Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 No the chamber pot hat would look more like a Bowler !! Jonathan Washbourne "Jonathan Washbourne Junr of Bridgwater appeared in court and was ordered to pay £5 fees and charges or be publicly whipped 20 stripes for his abusive and uncivil behaviour to Elizabeth Canaday Late of said Bridgwater by Thrusting up or putting of a skunk under the Cloaths to her Naked Body And then saying he had Done the office of a midwife." (from The Plymouth Journal, July 1701) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Cook Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Are you sure thats not a chamber pot and it's upside down? Hopefully the pyrates never made that mistake... eww... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Swab Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Does anyone have any (estimated) measurements for the size of the brim (diameter, circumference, what have you...) and crown?I might be able to get a ballpark figure if I could figure out if that striped stick is there for reference, and if so, how to read it. That stick should be in inches. We use a similar device for scale taking pictures of bits we recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjöröveren Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Does anyone have any (estimated) measurements for the size of the brim (diameter, circumference, what have you...) and crown?I might be able to get a ballpark figure if I could figure out if that striped stick is there for reference, and if so, how to read it. That stick should be in inches. We use a similar device for scale taking pictures of bits we recover. Pretty sure that the stick is in centimeters, since the museum it's from is in the UK. Also, a 30-inch wide hat would be ridiculous in anyone other than a pimp. Hey, maybe that's who was wearing it when the ship sunk! the Fool's Gold Pirates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Swab Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Does anyone have any (estimated) measurements for the size of the brim (diameter, circumference, what have you...) and crown?I might be able to get a ballpark figure if I could figure out if that striped stick is there for reference, and if so, how to read it. That stick should be in inches. We use a similar device for scale taking pictures of bits we recover. Pretty sure that the stick is in centimeters, since the museum it's from is in the UK. Also, a 30-inch wide hat would be ridiculous in anyone other than a pimp. Hey, maybe that's who was wearing it when the ship sunk! I stand corrected, I failed to note the UK and actually count oops. Well at least here we use a stick thats almost identical painted black/white in inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannibal Chrispy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Does this hat look extremely similar to a hat you may have mocked??? Please feel free to send apologies! LOL Now where is my Boones Farm? singing "Flirtin with disaster every day op bop bop yeaaaa" Edited June 9, 2009 by Cannibal Chrispy Illustration courtesy of Patrick Hand, and his Pyrate Comix. To see comic in it's entirety, click below http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=13374 All rights reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannibal Chrispy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 bump Illustration courtesy of Patrick Hand, and his Pyrate Comix. To see comic in it's entirety, click below http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=13374 All rights reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymm Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) This leather hat was recovered from HMS Stirling Castle, the same ship the boot came from, which sank in 1703 on the Goodwin Sands. Photo courtesy of Ramsgate Maritime Museum Sorry Ed, I'm not convinced. It looks like it's blown off the head of someone on the Ramsgate-Oostende ferry and ended up on the sands like so much of the other cack that they chuck off those things. That and the fact that my 10yr old has an identical one bought from a charity shop right down to the thonged edge decoration and split stitching at the front. Then from a hatters POV, the Mem says that the oval crown is summat that doesn't appear on felt hats at least until post 1800, hats being blocked on a round block. I'd lay cash on it that if they look at it under various polarised lights 'made in spain'll show up inside. Edited June 9, 2009 by Grymm Lambourne! Lambourne! Stop that man pissin' on the hedge, it's imported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 You're not the first person to make that observation old chap, and I have wondered myself. However, I don't think it's a piece of booze-cruise flotsam. If you look closely at the nearest edge of the brim the thonged decoration looks more like binding. More importantly, if you look at where the crown joins the brim it's quite definitely hand sewn. Finally, the side of the crown (apologies to the mem, don't know the technical term) doesn't look like it's been cut as a curve, but as a straight piece with angled ends - clearly not a professional job. I don't think it's the kind of croc-hunter hat that stockbrokers wear with their Driza-Bone wax jackets. Of course, that does not exclude the possibility that it is some post-1800 contamination to the site. I don't know the exact circumstances of its discovery, and I haven't examined it in person. But before we dismiss it completely, let's examine the possibility that it's a sailor-made leather hat circa 1700. What shaped hat block would a sailor have used? I won't be overly shocked if it turns out to have been a site contamination, but I'm not ready to dismiss it yet. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannibal Chrispy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Is it on display? or locked away in the museums stash? Would you have needed a hat block, arent they just to shape felt? Illustration courtesy of Patrick Hand, and his Pyrate Comix. To see comic in it's entirety, click below http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=13374 All rights reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymm Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Is it on display? or locked away in the museums stash? Would you have needed a hat block, arent they just to shape felt? It's just a bit hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I would need to see it, that's a given but it's identical, down to the way the crown and brim are attached, to me boy's 'Steve Irwin' style hat which like I said came from a charity/thrift shop 2year ago for £2. I mean it could be early 18thC but it also looks like the shed plumage of the lesser spotted archæologist too, and 'til 2003 there was a fairly regular tourist trade to the sands, building sand-castles, playing cricket They even have a pot-holing club http://www.goodwinsands.org.uk/page4.html who fiddle with the wrecks, see the li'l picture at the bottom. As to oval hats, Have a go, make a simple hat from paper without a calibrated tapemeasure, the tendancy is to measure your head, bit of string, and cut a circle for the head hole..............yeah I know, supposition, but yet summat just doesn't ring true for the hat or for the site intergity. Hey but I've been wrong on many many many occasions Lambourne! Lambourne! Stop that man pissin' on the hedge, it's imported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey but I've been wrong on many many many occasions Haven't we all? My gut feeling is that it's not a modern Steve Irwin. Partly for the reasons I gave above and partly because this hat has passed through the hands of archaeologists and museum professionals who, while by no means infallible, would surely have spotted that it was out of place if it was really as obvious as it seems. If it's not early 18thC then my best guess would be 19thC flotsam. The trouble with suppositions is that everyone can make them. For example, 2005 I made half a dozen hats for the Trafalgar events using cardboard and string measurements as you describe. They are all oval. The hat is on display at Ramsgate Maritime Museum, but since the future of the museum is in doubt it may not be on display for long - if it hasn't been secreted away already. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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