JohnnyTarr Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Well I have been doing some research from my desktop again. This is when I hate being in WI. I have been trying to figure out how gun ports worked and what kept them shut in bad weather. Can anyone out there help me? Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Essentially, gunports had covers with hinges on top, and generally a line on the outside that could be pulled from within the ship to open them. While closed, they could be lashed and even sealed with some sort of grease from the inside. This would make it a little harder to open, but one of the gun's tools could be used to dislodge it if action was imminent. Upper gunports didn't always have covers, as they were on the weather deck and didn't need to keep anything out. In fact, it was generally good to allow the weather deck gunports to be used as freeing ports, allowing water to flow easier and quicker off the deck. These pictures of the HMS Victory's gunports shows the tackle above the gun that was used to open the port. Gravity generally closed it, and any lashing or waterproofing could be completed from the inside. I couldn't post these from flickr, but they proved some good detail of the gunports. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3272/257624...6cc1d5d.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3032/257624...0208f0a.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/257624...01d2f7a.jpg?v=0 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/257541...bc6ca87.jpg?v=0 Note the lack of gunport covers on the weather deck gun. Somewhere, I have also seen gunports that opened to either side, much like shutters for a window, but I can't seem to find any pictures at this time. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Seahawke Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 noticed in the pics where there were 2 iron rings on the inside bottom of the covers. Might I assume that a bar was placed through these when closed to secure the covers shut. IMHO, it would make sense as to keep them secured in a rolling sea, as well as, arranging the cannon elevation for the muzzel to butt up against sill rather then push against the cover? At least I remember reading that somewhere. But it would make sense, ya think? Lady Cassandra Seahawke Captain of SIREN'S RESURRECTION, Her fleet JAGUAR'S SPIRIT, ROARING LION , SEA WITCH AND RED VIXEN For she, her captains and their crews are.... ...Amazon by Blood... ...... Warrior by Nature...... ............Pirate by Trade............ If'n ye hear ta Trill ye sure to know tat yer end be near... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 The rings were for tying the covers shut, not using a bar. The cannons were generally lashed down to the deck, though I have also sen some of the muzzle ends tied to the overhead as well. In some vessels, while secured for sea, the cannons were lashed along the length of the vessel's side and pointed fore/aft along the ship instead of out of the gunport. Although this made getting ready for battle a little harder, ships rarely actually fought and the spare space that this configuration provided was thought to be better than being ready for immediate action. Also, the ships would usually have plenty of time after sighting each other to get ready for action. I don't have time to find a picture of this alternative way of securing the cannons, but I'll try searching in a day or two. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 ah bugger coastie, good finds. there is a pic of a powder bucket that i had been trying to find for some time. i know little about guns aboard, but seems the lack of hatches above deck would help ship water over in the event of a big greenie coming aboard of course might also let ankle soakers aboard too. although these seem to be a bit above deck level and scuppers would still be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Ok here is a question on those HMS Victory pics. When the gun ports are closed are they straight up and down or on an angle? Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 looking at the second picture down, i would say at an angle. look at the red painted bottom. it is tapered to meet the port frame. my immediate reasoning is this- if the port were laid flat, it would create a shelf, pocket the water and potentially leak (yeah i know its a wooden ship- its supposed to) the second would be a swelling issue. if it were laid square and it swole, you would never get it out again. tapered at an angle might reduce this chance. edit- after a second closer look, there are slight protrusions on the hull where the hatch rests against when pulled to. I cannot tell if there is one at the base though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 OK, I found a great bit about securing cannons. Although it doesn't give specifics about the gun port, I figured it was apropriate here. http://books.google.com/books?id=g7Jd_o6_s...num=1&ct=result By the way, I have this book and strongly recommend it to anyone interested in the workings of a traditional ship, whether GAoP, or the late 19th Century/early 20th Century pinnacle of sail. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 OK, I found a picture of the two-part port covers that I mentioned earlier. I can't believe that I forgot that they were used on the USS Constitution! Although it's not the side 'shutter' style that I mentioned (will still have to look for that one), it is a two part cover, with a hole for the muzzle of the cannon. I can't really see these ever being completely water tight, but they'd keep most of the water out, and pumping occasionally would do the rest. As far as the angle of the port, most vessels tended to get narrower as they go up, with the widest part of the beam being just above the waterline. However, I have seen some that are different, and where the gunports are cut where the ship is vertical, or where the vessel is still getting wider, and thus on the 'underside' of the hull, especially some of the forward gun ports, or the stern chasers. U.S. Brig Niagara Coastie Continental Sloop Providence She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Thighbiter Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Sometimes, I feel priviledged to be a member of this forum. Pirate music at it's best, from 1650 onwards The Brigands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 are those leather gaskets over the uppers on the constitution shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well, from this picture, it definitely looks like it could be leather above the lower gun ports, but I don't think that it is. First off, the port cover tackle goes through a hole in it, and it wouldn't really work to try pulling the upper gun port up if the tackle was supported by leather alone. Also, this picture of the Constitution from the inside doesn't show anything above the gunport. Additionally, the stern chaser ports clearly don't have anything above them (especially look at the center one with fancy blocking above it). Also, this blurry image clearly at least shows that the hole where the port cover tackle coming through a solid wooden plank. However, I'm in Alaska, and it's been a few years since I've seen the ship in person, so someone closer might be able to take a good look to confirm or deny the configuration? Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well then this won't work for what I wanted. crap back to the drawing board. Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 OK, doing some more research and found this painting of the resolution, circa 1678 in a gale. There is what appears to be a seal, face, or some other decorative carving on the inside of the open gunports. I've seen this before on some of the older vessel styles. Also, what seems like common sense, the lower gunports are closed, while the upper ones are open for ventilation. Unfortunately (or fortunately, for us researchers) the sailors of the Wasa failed to follow this convention. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 See there is what I am talking about. It looks like the gunports would be straight up and down. Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 On an even keel, the gunports would not be straight up and down, but at a slight angle (see picture below of Peter Pett in front of the Sovereign of the Seas, circa 1645-1650). However, on the lee side when the ship is heeled like this, they'd probably be straight, or more likely, at an inverse angle. However, that's where those rings mentioned earlier on the inside of the gunport could be lashed to keep them shut. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Ok I see what you are saying. I was trying to come up with a cool cover for the stable windows. Gun ports just won't work unless I put them on a angle. I might be able to think of a way. Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 They should work fine, just have a latch on the inside or something to keep them closed if the wind blows a bit. Or, if the wood used is heavy enough, gravity might keep it pretty much closed. On a different note, you can always try to make it look like a ship laid up in peace time. The following are pictures of the USS Constitution and HMS Unicorn, both frigates. This photo of the Constitution (the link) states that it's from a Civil War collection, but I'm not really sure about the date of the photo itself. USS Constitution The second of the Constitution is from 1905 when she was a floating building in a naval yard. Finally, don't forget the HMS Unicorn. These show that the gunports (at least in later years while vessels still had some purpose to their navies, possibly as floating docks, store rooms, or classrooms at an academy) were closed in with panes of glass. It appears that the Constitution still had some gunport covers outside of some of the windows at that time. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I can't use glass. The horses just push their noses against it till it breaks. Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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