Jib

Questions about POTC AWE

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\let us not forget a more appropriate reference upon which we can draw...

"Roberts had grown so rich, he wanted to retire. He took me to his cabin and he told me his secret. 'I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts' he said. 'My name is Ryan; I inherited the ship from the previous Dread Pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Dread Pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Roberts has been retired 15 years and living like a king in Patagonia.'"

That was my thought exactly, when a friend asked me the same question. :lol:

As for the legend of the Flying Dutchman, the writers have said they drew influence from the Wagnerian opera. In that story, if the captain of the Dutchman could find a love who'll be true, the curse would be lifted. However, Iron Bess has said that the curse didn't lift for Will, so I suppose the writers took license with that bit, as is their right :lol:

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Well if you stayed until the end of the movie credits Liz and child (lil wil) are waiting for Wil to return. Ten years later. Maybe the curse is lifted at that moment. I don't know, it's really left up for you to decide. Just a thought .

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Davy Jones had to have been the first to ferry the dead souls to the afterlife because they say specifically in the movie that Calypso charged her love with the task. So, if Davy jones is the first and Will only the second, it must be a relatively new magic, still working out the kinks or what not. This is the only changeover there's ever been, so there's always gotta be a little confusion. The whole "The Dutchman must have a captain" was probably began when Calypso created the position, and the flying dutchman, being a magic ship and all, was later changed in the way that it's captain used it: cut out his heart and neglected it's duties. So the ship probably wouldn't have taken another captain in it's present state unless a new heart was cut out and replaced the old one. From that point on though, the ship is in Will's care, and notice it begins changing immediately. After ten years I think it's possible that as long as Will finds a replacement captain, the whole cut out your heart thing no longer needs to be done, it can be a less gory changeover.

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It's not new though. Calypso may have charged Jones with the task (being a heathen god, I guess she could do that), but that doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a previous captain.

The Dutchman was MUCH older then this ships Master and was not always so bereft of beauty. She was once a stunning ship.

Iron Bess works for Disney (in movie services, if I remember correctly) and occasionally has access to the (apparently fickle) writers. I don't know if this is where her info came from, but until a more authoritative source appears (like the writers themselves), I trust her. :P

Or as Bess herself would note...

:P

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Iron Bess works for Disney (in movie services, if I remember correctly) and occasionally has access to the (apparently fickle) writers. ....

Fickle?

Nay not, for no one is more devoted to their fans and try to give them access and feedback on many a blog site.

I prefer to think of them as creatively eccentric. :P

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I was referring to the varied accounts we get of the Will curse, but your point is well taken. The fact that they responded to a question on the web (which I cited somewhere above) is tribute to them. (This reminds me of a sad story of one of my favorite authors who, after putting up with a stream of abuse from someone on the web, vowed never to post or respond to anything further from that medium. Most unfortunate behavior - on the parts of both the lackwit who so insulted the author and the author himself.)

In any event, here's to creatively eccentric. We should all be more creatively eccentric. :P

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Hopefully this link will help explain things and not add more to the confusion...

Ted Elliot

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Hopefully this link will help explain things and not add more to the confusion...

Ted Elliot

Yep. Go back a page, I cited their site. That was one of the things Iron Bess and I were talking about.

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B)

I mentioned (as Caraccioli) that I had been answering questions for a friend (Tom) about the Will curse and he responded with this:

"Breaking Calypso's curse but yet leaving him an immortal.....Kind of a

bittersweet ending, Liz & son would grow old while he didn't. Leaves the

door open for a 4th movie with all cast members though. Will needs the

fountain of youth for Elizabeth & his brat, Jack needs it because he

lost the immortality he wanted for himself when he instead used Wills

hand to stab squid faces heart, and Barbossa probably wants it because

he's already been dead once & doesn't want to do it again. Kind of

complicated, but possible."

B) More Orlandol! More Orlando! B)

(Bess, I suspect from what you've said previously you know differently, but you gotta' admit it makes a lot of sense. More than some parts of AWE, actually! B) Plus it gets rid of the messy, complicated and less logical Calypso/Davy story. They could invent a new demon to guard the fountain...)

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Well I finally saw the movie and was disapointed on how it was shoveled together. A lot of inconsistency's. They must have wrote it as they went along while they were filming the third installment in the location they were in. What a shame...it had a lot of great elements that were badly put together. They totally diss'd Davy Jones, which I thought needed to be brought to redemption with Calypso. I thought they did a poor job with Bootstrap's portrayal...it should have been stronger. The part were they were all losing their fishey parts was not filmed well at all. The whole story line in the beginning should have been better on explaining bringing the crew together to Sinagpore. The whole heart thing and her tasking Davy Jones thing was not explained just infered. I know they want to leave the door open for continuing the saga...but not like this...too many confusions! I think it should have been re-written a whole lot tighter and filmed then as such. I know for the hundreds of POTC website groupies they all could have written a tighter script :angry: I hope if they do another POTC it will make up for the sloppiness of this one.

Why they killed off so many big names so shabbily is beyond me, Norrington, the Gov, The Chinese Pirate Lord (and then he gives the boat to her? what????)

Could have been a million times better if they took the time!

I have to say though to give credit..they did give a grand role to Barbosa...he stole the show in this one for sure!!!

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:lol: More Orlandol! More Orlando! B)

Well.... like it was a'mentioned before, Orlando is not *invited* back :angry:

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I don't know why I'm stating this, BUT Jack Sparrow and Barbossa are great facilitators of new characters. Let their travels take us to meet new characters and enjoy the adventure. Another great dual; there is no need for other 'main' characters.

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Don't blame the writers. Many a director has tossed what the writers put in to better fit their "vision".

If you want a really good reflection of the movie industry, watch the Burt Reynolds flick "Hooper". :lol:

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Bess, if they they knew Orlando was not going to do any more POTC's, then why in blazes add him to the finale? I know neither of the kiddies wanted to come back (stamps them with the pirate roles too much).

Perhaps they will use Young Will Turner the III? :lol:

I kinda feel sorry for the Kraken.... :lol: (bet a sushi stand opened up there really fast...lol)

The whole Fountain of Youth thing will be interesting...bringing them to American shores...hmmmm a bit of Louisana pyrates thrown in would be good eh? Perhaps they need to go from Fl to La for some sort of key/icon? Just a thought for POTC .

I have a question for everyone to ponder. Why in the heck would they have needed Jack Sparrow for the Pirate council...if Daddy was there? If Jack Sparrow was the Pirate Lord of the Carib, then what was Daddy? I know they voted him King (one vote from Dad and one from Jack?) so what was he there for except a nice bit role and a touch of strummin? Did he put anything into the kitty (spell for Calypso)? (sorry only saw it once)

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Captain Teague [jacks dad] wasn't the pirate king, he was the keeper of the pirate's code, as set forth by the pirates morgan and bartholomew. he might have been a pirate lord at one point and held that "piece of eight" that they needed from jack, but jack had it at this point and freeing calypso was the whole reason they had the meeting in the first place.

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Bess, if they they knew Orlando was not going to do any more POTC's, then why in blazes add him to the finale? I know neither of the kiddies wanted to come back (stamps them with the pirate roles too much).

Yeah, I wondered that too. Why make Wil and Elizabeth's storyline so damn confusing! If they don't want them to come back for anymore sequels they should have ended their story in a much more simpler way. There's too many plotholes about the curse and being the Captain of the Flying Dutchman. One would think Elizabeth and her son would also try and go after the Fountain of Youth so they can stay immortal with Wil. :lol:

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I don't know why I'm stating this, BUT Jack Sparrow and Barbossa are great facilitators of new characters.  Let their travels take us to meet new characters and enjoy the adventure.  Another great dual; there is no need for other 'main' characters.

Hear, hear! ;)

Of course, the only trouble with sequels seems to be that once they set the formula, the studio doesn't ever want to change it for fear that the audience will revolt or something. Since the POTC franchise is about an ever-increasing number of backstabbing pirates with all kinds of individual ulterior motives, as set for by the pirates Elliot and Rossio (not to mention Beattie and Wolpert - but let's not mention them), now all the sequels must slavishly adhere to this "formula." It's an idiotic Hollywood tradition. (Guys, even the Bond films have managed recently to break format in many ways! Don't be scared! Try it! :lol: )

I wonder how Captain Jack audience survey tested for the first movie? Better than Davy Jones? I wonder what surveys would reveal if they were administered a week or two after the film? Product surveys...bah. Their results are often much more spotty and unreliable than they're given credit for. People don't know if they want something new until they have it, so most surveys can't determine this. (This is why entrepreneurs can make so much money.)

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Captain Teague [jacks dad] wasn't the pirate king, he was the keeper of the pirate's code, as set forth by the pirates morgan and bartholomew. he might have been a pirate lord at one point and held that "piece of eight" that they needed from jack, but jack had it at this point and freeing calypso was the whole reason they had the meeting in the first place.

Which sort of begs the question, "How does one become a pirate lord?" Ah, more sequel fodder. It would seem that when one procures the icon of a particular lord one becomes a pirate lord based on Elizabeth's experience. Note that Jack could have gotten his coin anywhere in his travels. (If true, this explains why both he and Barbossa were pirate lords, answering a previous question of mine.)

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"Bloody", thanks for clearing that up,...as I mentioned I only saw it once in and stuff goes by so fast! :lo

Thoughts on Davy/Tia and Will

Also by doing the change from Davy to Will mucks up the sea myth about Davy Jones locker doesn't it now. I think they shoulda kept good old Davy and had him mend his heart with Tia, and continued to be the Ferryman. Then they coulda brought them back for a bit part in the next one for some sort of help....I think that woulda tied them back to the story nicely.

I think it was a short change when Tia/Calypso says she was fickle and so oh well sorry missed ya fella. That was lame because she loved him so in the beginning. I think a better story line with a barter deal between Davy and Will to save his father would have been better. Will could have retrieved the chest from Beckett and struck a deal...chest for father? That would have been a lot nicer a story line!

They could have gotten rid of the happy couple in the end sailing off to Honeymoon....! And the end could still have slap happy Jack and Barbosa to find the Fount of Youth. Heck they could have taken Bootstrap and Norrington and Daddy Gov with them!

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I suppose they need new pieces of of eight also...

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They can always check the seat cushions... :unsure:

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