Tartan Jack Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 I was on a hardware store and noticed the visual shape similarity of the machette to a cutlass. As many of the folks here are "hobby pirates" rather than accurate reenactors, I was wondering what the thoughts were on using a machette as a "cheap stand in" for a cutlass. Before anyone starts, I know that the "real thing" is much more complex in construction, balance, blade cross section shape, and primarily hilt, among a number of other differences. This is one of the few times I may be suggesting a non-historical 'pirate kit" item- besides a kilt ) Thoughts??? Possible arguement for historical-> Machette is a common "bush" item and used heavily in Central and South America today, as well as in the Caribbean. How long ago was it ACTUALLY introduced and could a GAoP person have picked one up on land and brought it aboard ship? -John "Tartan Jack" Wages, of South Carolina
Patrick Hand Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 I use a machette instead of a cutlass when I'm in my Buccaneer stuff.... I took off all the black paint that it came covered in.... and took the plastic handle off and replaced it with a wooden one, and then covered that with shrunk inplace rawhide... I figure that as a Buccaneer, I'd be using it as a tool more offten that as a weapon (I think there is a reference to them being used in The Buccaneers of America I'll have to look it up again, just to be sure...) Now for the down side.... It was a bit of work to make the machette look more period correct... but it still looks like I can't afford anything better.... it looks cheap..... I'm thinking of making a better scabbard for it in the near future....that might help..... If you're on a tight budget, for about the same amount of effert that it takes to make a machette right, you can do the same thing with one of the cheap stainless Packastan or India made blades, unscrewing the pommel, and make a new guard and handgrip... (a chunk of sheet metal, a ballpean hammer, and a treestump or log, and you can pound the guard out yourself...) You'll get something that looks much more like a cutlass. For about $65.00 you can get an India made Infantry sword from Dixie Gunworks, and do the same... and you have something that is as close to period as possible for under $350.00.... For someone that is a play Pyrate.... they would be just as well off using a plastic cutlass as trying to use machette ...... with out some work, machettes just look realy cheap....... (and even with some work.... they still look cheap.... It will take a lot of effort on the scabbard to even make it look OK.....)
Tartan Jack Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 Bang-for-buck then, these are still a decent way to go: http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCa..._and_armor.aspx I like the concept of: (Basically, one of their older baskethilt claymore baskets fitted onto a cutlass.) I might get a machette, just for the hack of it anyways . . . -John "Tartan Jack" Wages, of South Carolina
Patrick Hand Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 I'll have to take another picture of what it looks like now..... but this is the $65.00 Infantry sword taken apart... and the antler that I used for the grip... I want to make a shell guard, as per the paper pattern in the photo.... but the metal I had was too thin, and I ran out of time....so I re-used the brass guard.....
Patrick Hand Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 This is what my Buccaneer machetti looks like.... I realy have to make a better scabard for it..... But it still only looks like a machetti..... (well that's because that's what it is...) It works for my Buccaneer stuff, but I don't think it would work as a cheap alternative for a Pyrate.....
Patrick Hand Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 I'm having a bad time getting my old digital camera to work..... So I can't get the picture showing the blades outta the camera..... Anyway, this is a picture of the Infantry sword next to the (really cheap...you can see where the blade is welded to a piece of threaded rod...) sword that I made a new guard for.... I got the cheap sword for around $10 at a yard sale.... the pommel is a drawer pull that fit the threaded rod.... I'm just arguing that there are inexpensive alternatives for a cutlass... for Pyrates on a budget..... I don't think the Musiem Replicas cutlass at $325.00 fits into the catagory of Inexpensive.....
Captain Midnight Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 How about just making your own from scratch? That's what I did with this one: "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Patrick Hand Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Captain Midnight, that's really nice,..... but I don't have the equipment or skills to make a blade....even with a grinder, I can't cut the blood grove, or temper it correctly...... I can make the guard tho....... How did you do the groves on the shell guard ?.... I was experimenting with a cold chissle, but I can't get the lines as nice as I would like them......
CaptainSatan Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 I really liked the the basket hilt cutlasses in Cutthroat Island. People usually associate basket hilts with claymores, but they were quite common on English blades as well. I would like to pick up a cheap claymore and try attaching the basket hilt to a cutlass. -CS As we say in Ireland let's drink until the alcohol in our system destroys our liver and kills us.
Captain Midnight Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Captain Midnight, that's really nice,..... but I don't have the equipment or skills to make a blade....even with a grinder, I can't cut the blood grove, or temper it correctly...... I can make the guard tho.......How did you do the groves on the shell guard ?.... I was experimenting with a cold chissle, but I can't get the lines as nice as I would like them...... Patrick, I cut the grooves in the guard as well as the fuller in the blade with a dremel tool with a heavy duty cutting wheel. The blade itself was also cut out with the same tool, from a scrap piece of industrial saw blade. I work in a sawmill, so when the big blades break, they just cut them into pieces with a torch and chuck them in the garbage. I just chose a piece about three feet long for my cutlass. Cutting it out with a dremel tool doesn't put any heat on the metal which would remove the sawblade's temper, so it will still hold and keep a razor's edge. You DO have to have a steady hand to cut the lines straight, though. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Patrick Hand Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Captain Midnight , Maybe we should start another thread on how to make a good cutlass..... I can't make the blade... but the other parts I can deal with....... a how to do it for other Pyrates...... I thought this thread was how to get a cheap cutlass or buy a machetti..... But heck.... I think with your skill at making the blade (well and all the rest) maybe we can help other Pyrates make something good and that will be cool................... Dang... I can pound out a guard.... Your work looks good .... so can we make it work fer th' othe pyrate wot can swing a pallpeaned hammer.......
Tartan Jack Posted February 18, 2007 Author Posted February 18, 2007 Go ahead, I LOVE the home-made bladed stuff. I have done a lot of homemede, but not yet any weaponry. I've used my dremel mostly for model (plastic and diecast) projects, but am thinking of trying more wood milling (squin duhbs, dirks, and the like). I might try a grip now and use a cheap cutlass blade to make something unique (for display, as I don't trust a cheap sword for anything funtional). I have a number of swords I bought (mostly to be used for Scottish stuff). I was simply at a hardware store and looking a axes for some home suff. I looked over at the machettes to cut some foliage vines and noticed how the blade outline looked roughly like a cutlass. The problem looks like the blade of a cutlass is more curved on the backside of the blade. I much prefer nicer stuff. GREAT JOB Mr. Hand & Captain Midnight both!!! Take this thread anywhere you want to go (although a new one mught be read by those who are interested, but not looked into this one). -John "Tartan Jack" Wages, of South Carolina
Coastie04 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Well, not from a purely historical perspective, but for modern pirates, a machete is pretty much the present day cutlass. I commonly read the weekly (yes, weekly...there's that many of them) pirate attacks. Many of them mention the pirates as carrying "long knives" or machetes (and occasionally automatic weapons, rockets, etc.). I look at a cutlass, as it's mentioned above, as a tool that was kept sharp and used as a weapon when the situation called for it. It wasn't the only thing used as a weapon, but it was cheap, deadly, and scary. Just imagine being threatened with a crude, razor sharp machete. It doesn't need to be a fine blade to strike fear into your enemy. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
Captain Midnight Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Captain Midnight , Maybe we should start another thread on how to make a good cutlass..... I can't make the blade... but the other parts I can deal with....... a how to do it for other Pyrates......I thought this thread was how to get a cheap cutlass or buy a machetti..... But heck.... I think with your skill at making the blade (well and all the rest) maybe we can help other Pyrates make something good and that will be cool................... Dang... I can pound out a guard.... Your work looks good .... so can we make it work fer th' othe pyrate wot can swing a pallpeaned hammer....... Sure, Patrick, we could do that if you wanted to. I would be happy to help someone else learn to make a blade. As for making a cutlass from a modern machete...sure, I think it could be done. But you would need to cut or grind down the grip to make a suitably shaped tang, and add a bone, antler, or wood grip, coupled with a guard similar to either Patrick's or mine, or some other historical shape. I believe Master March of the Archangel crew has made some extremely nice cutlasses from scrap steel. They are very much like the cutlass from DeadMen TellNoTales.com You could make the guard like Patrick describes and add it to your machete, and come up with something pretty neat, as well as functional. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Monterey Jack Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I was on a hardware store and noticed the visual shape similarity of the machette to a cutlass. As many of the folks here are "hobby pirates" rather than accurate reenactors, I was wondering what the thoughts were on using a machette as a "cheap stand in" for a cutlass.Before anyone starts, I know that the "real thing" is much more complex in construction, balance, blade cross section shape, and primarily hilt, among a number of other differences. This is one of the few times I may be suggesting a non-historical 'pirate kit" item- besides a kilt ) Thoughts??? Possible arguement for historical-> Machette is a common "bush" item and used heavily in Central and South America today, as well as in the Caribbean. How long ago was it ACTUALLY introduced and could a GAoP person have picked one up on land and brought it aboard ship? The machete as a maritime weapon is not far off the mark. Patrick has done some great things with his to make them conform to period. Until the Spanish showed up, the central and south American tribes were still using wood. Once they got ahold of Spanish steel they re-formed the blades to make them suitable to their purpose. Then the Spaniards took the machetes home and started making them themselves to supply the plantation owners. The big diff in fight style between machete and cutlass is that since you have virtually no hand guard your motions with the machete will be draw-cuts as you make side-stepping motions, sweeping from one side to the other. The swinging is also entirely done from the wrist because of the weight of the blade; not the shoulder or elbow. The HMCA is working on a presentation for machete based on information thru Raven Martial Arts and Maestro James Loriega. Anyone who is interested can contact me thru the HMCA site: www.HistoricalMaritimeCombat.com Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........."
Lady Alyx Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Anyone know of a good website for short daggers or dirks...I want one fer me bodice. It's tough to find ladies knives and such. ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
Captain Midnight Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Anyone know of a good website for short daggers or dirks...I want one fer me bodice. It's tough to find ladies knives and such. Lady Alyx, Have you tried The Bud K Catalog? Hope this might help you a bit. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
callenish gunner Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 IT DEPENDS ON WHAT SORT OF PRICE RANGE YOU'D LIKE AND WHAT SORT OF QUALITY YOU'D PREFER LASS I HAVE A COUPLE OF VERY NICE MOTHER OF PEARL GERMAN DAGGERS THAT GO FOR ABOUT $55-60 OR I CAN GET SOME CHEAPER ONES FOR AS LOW AS 10-15
Lady Alyx Posted February 26, 2007 Posted February 26, 2007 Gunner, can you post those pics or email those pics.... Capt Midnight...yes I looked and closest to what I want is this but I want a 6 inch one.... ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
callenish gunner Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 i was thinking something a bit more classic ...good quality german blade
Rumba Rue Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Now what do ye know? I have that exact knife - it's my 'white-handled' knife I use for my Wicca stuff.
Patrick Hand Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 This if from Chapter 4 The fruits,treees and animals found on Hispaniola from The Buccaneers of America by Alexander O. Exquemelin.... ...after the tree has been chopped down, which is easily done, for it can be cut with a big knife called a machete, shaped like a pastry-cook's knife. So a machette is period for Buccaneers.... But it's kinda interesting that he desribes what it it.......
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