Salty Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 wow mates, thanks fer the websites cheers Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
Fox Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 I got my hand knitted back-sewn stockings from Paul Meekins: http://www.bandoliers.co.uk/stockings/stockings.htm Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Red Cat Jenny Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 OOOhhhh!! Foxe you are a gem! er ( toChloe) see wot happens when one actually sleeps? Too much brain activity! .... gotta fix that..where's the rum? Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time...
CrazyCholeBlack Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 OOOhhhh!!GOF you are a gem! Psst, Jenny, That evil tempter from the UK is Foxe, not Gof Man those are some really nice stockings. "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
Fox Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 I never cease to be amazed how many people mix GoF and me up GoF - tall, red, handsome American who lives in Germany Foxe - tall-but-not-as-tall-as-GoF, dark, beardy Englishman who lives in a dream world. Incidentally, Meekins' stockings are also very comfortable as well as pretty. I was wearing them at the Pirate Feast and RF2 in case anyone noticed my shapely legs. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
jessie k. Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 I got my hand knitted back-sewn stockings from Paul Meekins:http://www.bandoliers.co.uk/stockings/stockings.htm Hey, and if you click on the link for the cloth pattern, it's one of Kass's. :) "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain
Salty Posted February 12, 2007 Author Posted February 12, 2007 have pattern shall try to make a pair......praying to all the forgotten gods and may not start them till after me GRE exam Slainte Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
kass Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Sorry it's been so long since I've posted, kids. Been busy and sick and snowed in... Let's clear up some misconceptions, shall we? First of all, cloth hose (stockings made from fabric) are really going the way of the dinosaur by this point. Very poor people and slaves are still wearing them, but by the 18th century the stocking frame is making knit stockings more affordable for all classes of society. So unless you're portraying 17th century or someone of very desperate circumstances, you should be wearing knitted stockings. That being said, the most common knitted stockings in the 18th century were NOT knitted in the round on needles. They were knitted in the flat on a knitting frame. This frame made it possible to produce a large quantitiy of stockings in a short amount of time. They were knit flat but to shape (in other words, not a tube), and sewn up the back. Modern machine-knit stockings knit in the round are incorrect because they don't have a back seam. If we were strict with our authenticity, 90% of the stockings we wear would be frame knit. Unfortunately no one is knitting frame-knit stockings so this is an impossibility. Modern handknit stockings are not wrong if they are knit according to a period pattern (the Gunnister stockings are the most popular example). The ones Foxe and I bought from Paul Meekins are very good. But they're not perfect. They are too large a guage yarn and knitted on needles that are too large. Meekins does this because knitting in the tiny 20 spi guage of common 18th century stockings would take his knitters so long that their price for the stockings would make them too expensive to sell. They are also knit with modern super wash yarn which is chemically processed to not be fuzzy. It's wrong, but modern people buy it because it's soft. It's not yarn from a period breed of sheep if you care to get that technical about it. However, Meekins stockings are the best on the market. I highly recommend them until someone starts selling frame-knit or proper guage Gunnisters. A couple more corrections to things I've heard in this thread: - Period stockings were not tubes. Heels have been turned since stockings were first knitted. The period heel, however, is very different than the modern knitted heel. It's bulkier and much more noticeable. - Foxe, your stockings from Meekins are not backsewn. They have a few pearl stitches at center back just like the Gunnister stockings. It fakes a backseam, but if you look at them you will see that they are not sewn at all. But they are appropriate since the Gunnister stockings were not sewn either (nor are other 17th and 18th century handknitted examples). Only frameknit stockings are sewn up the back. The guage of most stockings sold to reenactors is not too fine. It's too coarse! The extant stockings that we have and the patterns and other documentation for stockings from the 18th century put them at a much finer guage than what we get from sutlers -- especially those who are handknitting. And the extant stockings are not those of noble or rich people. Those to which I refer have come down to us from common people. They are finer. They knit on needles we call "0" and "00" and even "000". Furthermore, handspun yarn isn't bulkier. People who spun for a living did great work. Their spinning was as fine as you could imagine. It wasn't the "chunky" handspuns you find today. Today, we like the chunky stuff because it looks rustic and hand-made. But in the 18th century, the fineness of one's spinning was prized. Women who spun for a living did this as their profession and they were good at it. The extant stockings are shockingly uniform. But it's our modern perception of handspun that's tripping us up. So in conclusion, no one is selling perfectly period-appropriate stockings. The majority should be frame-knit and no one is doing that. Cloth hose are out except for the poorest most desperate people. Hand knit stockings are too bulky and too coarse a guage, but if they're being knit according to a period pattern, at least they're the right pattern. Paul Meekins in the UK is selling the best out there right now. And how you guys keep mistaking Greg (GoF) for Foxe, I just don't understand... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Mick MacAnselan Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Not to change the topic (much), but do we know anything about appropriate colors? I mean other than all the dyes we knew existed in the period, do we know if certain ones would have been most common for stockings? The Dread Pyrate MacAnselan aka Mick
kass Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 The Slop Contracts specify grey -- which means any undyed colour of fleece (brown, black, white, red, grey, etc.), not just the colour grey. And undyed stockings would have been very common. Another very common colour, particularly in the Colonies, was blue. The Germantown Blue Dyers dyed many stockings with indigo. Blue was probably the most popular colour of knit stockings in the Mid-Atlantic states. Other colours seen in street scenes include reds, yellows, greens, black, brown, and just about everything else you can think up. White shouldn't be avoided, but because of the dirt potential and the need to bleach the wool to get it very white, white was a less popular colour among working people. Does that help you, Mick? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Mick MacAnselan Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Does that help you, Mick? Yep, it does! I forgot that the slops contacts specified stockings at all. One of these days I'm going to print them out, frame them, and hang 'em on the wall. And I never knew that 'grey' could mean any color of undyed wool. So I'm thinking something undyed for me. I was looking at Paul Meekins' site and it may be just an illusion, but I think there's two different knits shown on this page... A Page at Paul Meekin's Site And I'm guessing the purplish stockings on that page are the knit you've been talking about, with the faux backseam? The Dread Pyrate MacAnselan aka Mick
kass Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Nope, Mick. Those stockings are actually both the same patterns. I think it's just the way the light's hitting them. Both have the faux back seam of which I speak. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
CrazyCholeBlack Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 About knitting frames, Where can one learn more? Mostly I'm wondering how similar/dissimilar they are to the knitting looms we have today. Any examples for us visual learners? "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
Mick MacAnselan Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Nope, Mick. Those stockings are actually both the same patterns. I think it's just the way the light's hitting them. Both have the faux back seam of which I speak. Thanks Kass! I have sent the appropriate electrons in Mr. Meekins' direction. I'm hoping he ships to the USA. The Dread Pyrate MacAnselan aka Mick
kass Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 About knitting frames, Where can one learn more? Mostly I'm wondering how similar/dissimilar they are to the knitting looms we have today. Any examples for us visual learners? Google "knitting frames", Chole. When my main computer crashed a few months ago, I lost all my bookmarks, but I used to have one on the history of the knitting frame. I found it doing a Google search. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Patrick Hand Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 And how you guys keep mistaking Greg (GoF) for Foxe, I just don't understand... Easy... they are both overseas..... we have the geography kinda set in our minds, and keep messing it up the exact location (give or take a few countrys) I've done it a few times, and should know better....... Not that I'm going to make one.... But think of the market if someone made a knitting frame and started producing period socks.... Not to just for Pyrates.... but everyone in that large chunka history
kass Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 I dunno, guys. Yeah, I've met Greg twice and... well... Foxe... :dreamy face: But back when I only knew them from the PB Yahoo group, their way of posting is totally different. They really don't sound alike at all. Two VERY different personalities. Pat, I've been working on getting a period-appropriate, working knitting frame for the past ten months... ...But I'm much closer to producing period-pattern handknit stockings knit in the proper gauge with yarn from a documentable sheep breed. :) Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Skittles Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 ...But I'm much closer to producing period-pattern handknit stockings knit in the proper gauge with yarn from a documentable sheep breed. :) Kass, Now that is exciting news! I've been very reluctant to start a stocking using the pattern I have (even though it is high on my list of things to do) because I really want it to be correct. It is going to be very painstaking work (hand cramps and all!) so maybe I'll wait for your knit stocking pattern to come out and do it right the first time - Skittles
Salty Posted February 15, 2007 Author Posted February 15, 2007 Aye lady Kass tis good news and very interesting. Still willing to try me hands at it though along with trying to make some of the rest of me kit. NO sure o where to put such sentiments so I'll say it here........Thanks be to all who help out the newbies Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
kass Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 You're welcome, Saltypots. I find making the little bits quite satisfying. But that's what I do. As a potter who wants to try to make bits of her kit, you might find it a fun diversion or you might find it annoyingly complicated. Do what pleases you and enjoy! Hey there, Skittles! The stocking pattern (and other knitting patterns) will be on the website by March. The actual stockings (and hats and gloves and stuff) will follow. We tried to get some samples by RF2, but we just had too much to do and Foxe was not into knitting in the car on the drive... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Salty Posted February 15, 2007 Author Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks fer said encourgments, have never really sewn much clothing tis been interesting but i'll do me best not to shame the garb, wee bit more en worried bout stays. Dat be anotehr project fer nother day though Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
kass Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 Think of it this way, Saltypots: stays are just rows of straight stitches. Just one next to another. Don't think about how many. Just do one. And then do the next. I did a set by hand once and I worked on one row at a time. Before I knew it, they were done. There's no rush. And there's no time limit. Work on stuff when it's fun and don't when it's not. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Salty Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 :) :) :) its all been interesting ta say the least Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
Salty Posted March 7, 2007 Author Posted March 7, 2007 http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/doc.asp...oc=7349&cat=737 fer thoseinterested in knitting frams this provides some information Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
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