Salty Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 OK mates, most everything else in clothing has a topic or some reference to on ta' pub.. How bout stockings mens or womans. Questions: Is knitting or crocheting proper fer the times? Or is cloth better? Gartered about the knee for both sexes? Anyone happen to have a pattern for said beasties? or refernce to any infomation t'all. Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
michaelsbagley Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 I just looked into the "Clothing index" Patrick Hand put together and had stickied to the top of the Twill channel forum.... Clothing Index And didn't see anything, but I am certain that I have done searches either in the Twill channel or possibly the Plunder channell and found a reasonable amount of information.... Maybe it was another forum and I am just confusing the two... From memory (and i am sure someone more in the know will speak up) both knit and fabric stockings were used in the time.... I remember reading something about a seam on the knit stockings which makes any knit stickings available to buy incorrect, but most people will live with the descrepancy, or at least I hope so because I bought some wool stockings last week for the purpose.... I don't remember if both knit and fabric are were worn both on men and women, or if one was more appropriate for one and the other for the other... When/if we get some good answers would it be possible to add this thread to Patricks previous efforts in the stickied thread?
blackjohn Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Once upon a time "The Goddess of Stockings and Cheesecake" kept us company on the Pirate Brethren mail list. In fact, I still email her once in awhile when I need a second opinion on something. Suffice to say, after being in the test audience for her stocking lecture, I am left with the impression that no one makes correct period knit stockings. Even the fancy pair I have are wrong. The get me close, but I don't get a cigar. Stockings cut from cloth, on the other hand, I think Kass has or is in the process of making patterns for those... My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
Salty Posted February 9, 2007 Author Posted February 9, 2007 Thanks lads, sure if this helps add to everyones knowhow add it wherever it needs to go. the reason i asked is i'd like to try and make proper stockings. been looking into it between me studies today. not to take away from Kass or anyone else just wondering and looking for ways to test and or use skills. Cheers Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
Lady Alyx Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Hmm black stockings for me mate! ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
blackjohn Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 As in nylons... I'm afraid we don't let them in Capt Twill. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
Lady Alyx Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Well excuse me...I did not think you can exclude someone online for wearing stockings...sir! ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
blackjohn Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Eh... never mind. The field is yours... My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
Lady Alyx Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 ..and how do you know I dont have some cotton ones that garter at the knee? I will leave this topic totally! ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
Capt. Sterling Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Skittles is about to embark on her first pair of period correct knitted wool stockings...my birthday present!!! Then on to silk....Huzzah Skittles!!! "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
michaelsbagley Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Lucky you! Do you have any hints on how to win Skittles undieing gratitude?
CrazyCholeBlack Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 As far as I know, knitting started in what, the 1500's or 1600's and was naturally applied first to things that needed stretch like stockings. But since our period is still early in knitting history, knitted isn't the only option. There are still cut cloth stockings in the period. I know Kass has a cut cloth pattern in an earlier period & I could swear there is a free one on-line but I can't find the blasted link. Cut cloth is easy to do, but doesn't fit anything like knitted stockings. They are saggier and have to be customized more to the size of the persons foot/calf. Also, don't forget to cut them on the bias. They really don't work if you forget that part From what I know the main problem with modern "re-enactor" stockings is that they are machine knit and the gage is too fine. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the shaped heel wasn't applied at first, so stockings were straight tubes. Also I think they weren't knitted with circular needles but with double pointed straights, which gives a slightly different finished look than the constant spiral on a circular needle. Try Rutt's "History of Handknitting" for more information on knitted items. "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
Skittles Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Skittles is about to embark on her first pair of period correct knitted wool stockings...my birthday present!!! Then on to silk....Huzzah Skittles!!!   Er, well yes, Captain, I will get started as soon as you get me those measurements Not scolding, just anxious to get started... And a tip to anybody willing to try their own stockings, I've read that it's better to knit both simultaneously, so you get two stockings that match and you won't poop out after doing one and lose interest in finishing the other. There is a historic knitting chat site that offers great advice, as well as great links for patterns and yarn. -Skittles
CrazyCholeBlack Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 oh & here's Mara's page on knitted stockings. http://www.marariley.net/knitting/stocking.htm still not the one on cut cloth I'm looking for though. Looks like it's time to clean up the "Favorites Folder". "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
Capt. Sterling Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Lucky you!Do you have any hints on how to win Skittles undieing gratitude? Join my crew! :) :) "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Er, well yes, Captain, I will get started as soon as you get me those measurements Not scolding, just anxious to get started... grumble, grumble, grumble... Now ye all know who really runs the boat! "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Skittles Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Here is a link I found quite some time ago concerning cloth stockings... http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/Flemish8.html (now I hope that works ) -Skittles
JohnnyTarr Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Well excuse me...I did not think you can exclude someone online for wearing stockings...sir! Is that all your wearing? Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry.
Lady Alyx Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Knitted stockings ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
michaelsbagley Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 From what I know the main problem with modern "re-enactor" stockings is that they are machine knit and the gage is too fine. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the shaped heel wasn't applied at first, so stockings were straight tubes. Also I think they weren't knitted with circular needles but with double pointed straights, which gives a slightly different finished look than the constant spiral on a circular needle. That's interesting... I can totally see your point on the machine knit not being correct... As to yarn thickness, I thought the opposite was true as modern wool yarns tend to be thicker and chunkier than period hand spun yarns. Or am I way off track here? Or are my thoughts based on a generalization that doesn't apply to stockings? Thanks for sharing your knowledge! It has been a great help! I'm still curious as to what most GAoP re-enactors are currently using... and I'd love some feedback as to whether using the machine knit 100% wool stockings is a typical convention or whether there is another not too difficult alternative available.
Lady Alyx Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 lol Johnny well I can be....WINK ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
blackjohn Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 Part of the continuing saga on stockings from... 2004 I believe. >Yeah, I just got home and read thru this thread (no pun intended ;-) >and you guys should have a freakin' seminar on this........    I did - did you miss it? The Pirate Brethren was my test groups for my first lecture, not to mention those who kindly donned stockings and posed for a few slides. And the lovely close-up lenses I got for my camera so I have slides showing minute details. :-) >And whats interesting to me, as a stocking novice, is why no one has >done anything about this. People defarb tiny markings on muskets ( >which even in my stitch nazi world is a minor detail) and piss on >buttons, but NO ONE has correct stockings in Rev War or F&I ?? >After all these years?    We don't have the technology. And the current stockings available are cheap and "good enough". >I really didn't realize until today how far off we are with what we >have. I thought we were at least close. I vow henceforth to go >stocking-less until I can get something closer , or preferably >right........ !! It sorta just makes my flesh crawl knowing I have >farb stockings. Sleep will come difficult tonite, I see........ ><sigh>    Stocking-free is fine. Also cut & sewn stockings made from woven fabric. Or spare yourself all that typing and knit, you won't be the first to hand knit 18thC style stockings! >Damn you!! Damn you all!!    So it's all my fault for researching stockings? I suppose you'd rather live in blissful ignorance... :-P    -Carol My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
blackjohn Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 One more thing. Last year my "big" quest at the Fort Frederick Market Fair was to find the stocking maker. Sadly, when I found his tent, it was vacant. Here's a link to the site. http://www.delpstockings.com/index.html From all accounts (at the time) it sounded as if this person was making correct stockings. However, after further scrutiny, Kass had these thoughts on the subject. > Now, I would like to mention that he has updated his site and now says that> his stockings are knitted on "antique knitting machines" not "knitting > frames". So it's possible that they are not knitted in the flat and sewn > together but knitted in the round as they were in the 19th century. As we > all know "antique" doesn't go very far back for some people. This may mean > early or mid-20th century. > > I'm suddenly filled with mistrust... > > Sorry guys, > Kass So... what's a pirate to do... One last last thing... one of the many stockings Carol examined up close and first hand... the Whydah stocking. Cool. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
PirateSSe Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 Hmm black stockings for me mate! Oh, yes, and those Cuban heel backseam sexy leg flauntin' jobs worn with stiletto heels. Fishnets with threads o' gold runnin' through 'em. Sorry, we all have a non PC (pyratically correct) side to us.
CrazyCholeBlack Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 One last last thing... one of the many stockings Carol examined up close and first hand... the Whydah stocking. Cool. more more, must know more! A Whydah stocking obsession would go great with my Whydah shoe obsession. "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
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