Dorian Lasseter Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Aye, Dunno if there were a topic of this nature already... or even if this be th' right place for it... What nautical words/phrases do you use or hear every day? More than you think, I'll wager.... Things like; 'being three sheets to the wind' Or 'Being at laggerheads with someone' Or 'the cats out of the bag' and so fourth... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Arrrgh! I use that at least a few times a week. Sometimes I sign emails to me wench as that, sometimes to express frustration, and sometimes just to scare little kids. It's rather versatile, really. With me job, I also use a variety of nautical words on a daily basis. A very small list follows: deck head bulkhead bridge port starboard haliard bosun (derived from boatswain...in fact, this one's my roommate) Captain (second most important on the ship, right behind the head cook) swell (actually, anything but) current crab angle bears (as in ship bears two points off the larboard bow, or ship bears a 320 relative) pitch roll knots OK, I've gotten tired of typing now. There's quite a few more, but you get the point. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maddox Roberts Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I don't know what the weather's like where you are, but lately here it's been "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey." It's a nautical reference, having nothing to do with either simians or testicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 There is a great book out called "When a Loose Cannon Flogs a dead Horse, there's the Devil to Pay" that has a whole list, plus discriptions and history behind the phrase. Makes for good reading around the Scuttlebutt, or in the Head, or while eatin yer favorite geedunk... - 10 Fathoms Deep on the Road to Hell... Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Well I'm still trying to figure out how my parrot picked up the word "Swabbie", no one here taught it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I'm not sure if I posted this before or not, but it's worth repeating. :) Over a Barrel The most common method of punishment aboard ship was flogging. The unfortunate sailor was tied to a grating, a mast or over the barrel of a deck cannon. To Know the Ropes There was miles and miles of cordage in the rigging of a square rigged ship. The only way of keeping track of and knowing the function of all of these lines was to know where they were located. It took an experienced seaman to know the ropes. Dressing Down Thin and worn sails were often treated with oil or wax to renew their effectiveness. This was called "dressing down". An officer or sailor who was reprimanded or scolded received a dressing down. Footloose The bottom portion of a sail is called the foot. If it is not secured, it is footloose and it dances randomly in the wind. Booby Hatch Aboard ship, a booby hatch is a sliding cover or hatch that must be pushed away to allow access or passage. First Rate Implies excellence. From the 16th century on until steam powered ships took over, british naval ships were rated as to the number of heavy cannon they carried. A ship of 100 or more guns was a First Rate `line-of`-battle ship. Second rates carried 90 to 98 guns; Third Rates, 64 to 89 guns; Fourth Rates, 50 to 60 guns. Frigates carrying 20 to 48 guns were fifth and sixth rated. Pipe Down Means stop talking and be quiet. The Pipe Down was the last signal from the Bosun's pipe each day which meant "lights out" and "silence". `Chock-a`-block Meaning something is filled to capacity or over loaded. If two blocks of rigging tackle were so hard together they couldn't be tightened further, it was said they were "`Chock-a`-Block". Leeway The weather side of a ship is the side from which the wind is blowing. The Lee side is the side of the ship sheltered from the wind. A lee shore is a shore that is downwind of a ship. If a ship does not have enough "leeway" it is in danger of being driven onto the shore. Windfall A sudden unexpected rush of wind from a mountainous shore which allowed a ship more leeway. Groggy In 1740, British Admiral Vernon (whose nickname was "Old Grogram" for the cloak of grogram which he wore) ordered that the sailors' daily ration of rum be diluted with water. The men called the mixture "grog". A sailor who drank too much grog was "groggy". Three Sheets to the Wind A sheet is a rope line which controls the tension on the downwind side of a square sail. If, on a three masted fully rigged ship, the sheets of the three lower course sails are loose, the sails will flap and flutter and are said to be "in the wind". A ship in this condition would stagger and wander aimlessly downwind. Pooped The poop is the stern section of a ship. To be pooped is to be swamped by a high, following sea. As the Crow Flies When lost or unsure of their position in coastal waters, ships would release a caged crow. The crow would fly straight towards the nearest land thus giving the vessel some sort of a navigational fix. The tallest lookout platform on a ship came to be know as the crow's nest. Buoyed Up Using a buoy to raise the bight of an anchor cable to prevent it from chafing on a rough bottom. By and Large Currently means in all cases or in any case. From the nautical: by meaning into the wind and large meaning with the wind: as in, "By and Large the ship handled very well." Cut and Run If a captain of a smaller ship encountered a larger enemy vessel, he might decide that discretion is the better part of valor, and so he would order the crew to cut the lashings on all the sails and run away before the wind. Other sources indicate "Cut and Run" meant to cut the anchor cable and sail off in a hurry. In the Offing Currently means something is about to happen, as in - "There is a reorganization in the offing." From the 16th century usage meaning a good distance from shore, barely visible from land, as in - "We sighted a ship in the offing." Skyscraper A small triangular sail set above the skysail in order to maximize effect in a light wind. The Bitter End The end of an anchor cable is fastened to the bitts at the ship's bow. If all of the anchor cable has been payed out you have come to the bitter end. Toe the Line When called to line up at attention, the ship's crew would form up with their toes touching a seam in the deck planking. Back and Fill A technique of tacking when the tide is with the ship but the wind is against it. Overhaul To prevent the buntline ropes from chaffing the sails, crew were sent aloft to haul them over the sails. This was called overhauling. Slush Fund A slushy slurry of fat was obtained by boiling or scraping the empty salted meat storage barrels. This stuff called "slush" was often sold ashore by the ship's cook for the benefit of himself or the crew. The money so derived became known as a slush fund. Bear Down To sail downwind rapidly towards another ship or landmark. Under the Weather If a crewman is standing watch on the weather side of the bow, he will be subject to the constant beating of the sea and the ocean spray. He will be under the weather. Overreach If a ship holds a tack course too long, it has overreached its turning point and the distance it must travel to reach it's next tack point is increased. Gone By the Board Anything seen to have gone overboard or spotted floating past the ship (by the board) was considered lost at sea. Above Board Anything on or above the open deck. If something is open and in plain view, it is above board. Overwhelm Old English for capsize or founder. Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea The devil seam was the curved seam in the deck planking closest to the side of the ship and next to the scupper gutters. If a sailor slipped on the deck, he could find himself between the devil and the deep blue sea. The Devil to Pay To pay the deck seams meant to seal them with tar. The devil seam was the most difficult to pay because it was curved and intersected with the straight deck planking. Some sources define the "devil" as the `below-the`-`waterline-seam` between the keel and the the adjoining planking. Paying the Devil was considered to be a most difficult and unpleasant task. Rummage Sale From the French "arrimage" meaning ship's cargo. Damaged cargo was sold at a rummage sale. A Square Meal In good weather, crews' mess was a warm meal served on square wooden platters. Son of a Gun When in port, and with the crew restricted to the ship for any extended period of time, wives and ladies of easy virtue often were allowed to live aboard along with the crew. Infrequently, but not uncommonly, children were born aboard, and a convenient place for this was between guns on the gun deck. If the child's father was unknown, they were entered in the ship's log as "son of a gun". Overbearing To sail downwind directly at another ship thus "stealing" or diverting the wind from his sails. Taking the wind out of his sails Sailing in a manner so as to steal or divert wind from another ship's sails. Let the Cat Out of the Bag In the Royal Navy the punishment prescribed for most serious crimes was flogging. This was administered by the Bosun's Mate using a whip called a cat o' nine tails. The "cat" was kept in a leather or baize bag. It was considered bad news indeed when the cat was let out of the bag. Other sources attribute the expression to the old english market scam of selling someone a pig in a poke(bag) when the pig turned out to be a cat instead. No Room to Swing a Cat The entire ship's company was required to witness flogging at close hand. The crew might crowd around so that the Bosun's Mate might not have enough room to swing his cat o' nine tails. Start Over with a Clean Slate A slate tablet was kept near the helm on which the watch keeper would record the speeds, distances, headings and tacks during the watch. If there were no problems during the watch, the slate would be wiped clean so that the new watch could start over with a clean slate. Taken Aback A dangerous situation where the wind is on the wrong side of the sails pressing them back against the mast and forcing the ship astern. Most often this was caused by an inattentive helmsman who had allowed the ship to head up into the wind. At Loggerheads An iron ball attached to a long handle was a loggerhead. When heated it was used to seal the pitch in deck seams. It was sometimes a handy weapon for quarrelling crewmen. `Fly-by`-Night A large sail used only for sailing downwind and requiring rather little attention. No Great Shakes When casks became empty they were "shaken" (taken apart) so the pieces, called shakes, could be stored in a small space. Shakes had very little value. Give (someone) a Wide Berth To anchor a ship far enough away from another ship so that they did not hit each other when they swung with the wind or tide. Cut of His Jib Warships many times had their foresails or jib sails cut thinly so that they could maintain point and not be blown off course. Upon sighting thin foresails on a distant ship a captain might not like the cut of his jib and would then have an opportunity to escape. Garbled Garbling was the prohibited practice of mixing rubbish with the cargo. A distorted, mixed up message was said to be garbled. Press Into Service The British navy filled their ships' crew quotas by kidnapping men off the streets and forcing them into service. This was called Impressment and was done by Press Gangs. Touch and Go This referred to a ship's keel touching the bottom and getting right off again. Scuttlebutt A butt was a barrel. Scuttle meant to chop a hole in something. The scuttlebutt was a water barrel with a hole cut into it so that sailors could reach in and dip out drinking water. The scuttlebutt was the place where the ship's gossip was exchanged. Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 Lordy Jack, ye done spilled th' vernacular all over th' place! Excellent job... indeed.... I find it very interestin' how many landlubbers talk usin' so many o' them words n' phrases an' have not a clue as to where they came from... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Nice list Jack! I must confess I doubt the clean slate reference though, for two reasons: a: the usual traditional method of recording time and distance during a watch was with pegs in a traverse board. Slates might sometimes have been used, but probably not often enough to give rise to a saying. b: it's more likely to come from the days when slates and chalk were used in schools. You make a mistake in a question, you scrub it out and start again with a clean slate. Also, (I can hear the groans) can I scotch the evil rumour that freezing the balls off a brass monkey has anything whatsoever to do with naval gunnery. The triangle used to keep cannon balls in were usually iron not brass, were never called monkeys, and would have to shrink a heck of a lot for the cannon balls to roll off. It's an urban myth. The phrase is probably a nonsense one like "raining cats and dogs". I can also add to the list. Some of the more prosaic and less obviously nautical phrases have nautical origins. The only one that springs to mind is By and large. A ship can sail by the wind or large, so "by and large" means "just about everything". Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Okay you lads with the OEDs [Oxford English Dictionaries -ed]! Look me up some stuff, will ye? This morning as I was brushing my teeth, I thought of how interesting it was that the word "slut" in the 18th century referred to a young girl, regardless of her sexual behaviour. And I started wondering how far back that word went. I also found myself wondering about the word "wench". Is it really an Elizabethan word for a waitress? Or is it a Victorian thing like so much else. Basically, I'm trying to start a topic about what words (particularly titles and appelations) that we hear at the Ren Faire are really correct or what we should be saying instead. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Kass, you can subscribe to the OED online... The etymology of "wench" is the middle English "wenche" from the Old English "wenchel" meaning a child. Unlike our modern usage it was probably a not-unkind way of addressing a young woman, particularly perhaps a young serving woman (or girl). The natural promiscuity of barmaids perhaps led us to the verb "wenching" The etymology of "slut" is similar, but probably was used more to mean someone scruffy and unpresentable that its modern definition of someone sexually promiscuous. Grose's 1785 dictionary, for example, defines a "slattern" as "A woman sluttishly negligent in her dress". Possibly an old whore, but not necessarily so. Grose's dictionary gives some fantastic names for both young men and young women: Admiral of the Narrow Seas: One who from drunkeness vomits into the lap of the person sitting opposite him Sea phrase Ankle: A girl who is got with child is said to have sprained her ankle Arch Duke: A comical or eccentric fellow Athanasian Wench or Quicunque Vult: A forward girl, ready to oblige every man that shall ask her Backgammon Player: A sodomite Baggage: ... a familiar epithet for a woman Bantling: A young child Bat: A low whore, so called from moving out like bats in the dusk of the evening Beard splitter: A man given to too much wenching (think about it - Ed) Bitch: ... the most offensive appelation that can be given to an English woman, even more than that of whore, as may be gathered from the regular Billinsgate or St. Giles's answer "I may be a whore but I can't be a bitch". Bitch Booby: A country wench. Military term Biter: a wench whose **** is ready to bite her a-se; a lascivious, rampant wench. Bob-tail: a lewd woman, or one that plays with her tail. Bugger: a blackguard, a rascal Cake: a foolish fellow Cat: A common prostitute Catamaran: an old scraggy woman; from a kind of float made of spars and yards lashed together, fo saving shipwrecked persons Cull: A man, honest or otherwise Dangler: One who follows women in general, without any particular attachment. Death's Head upon a mop-stick: A poor miserable emaciated fellow Doggess, Dog's wife or lady, Puppy's Mamma: Jocular ways of calling a woman a bitch. Duck F-ck-r: the man who has the care of the poultry onboard a ship of war Ewe: A white ewe; a beautiful woman. An old ewe, drest lamb fashion; an old woman, drest like a young girl Fancy man: a man kept by a lady for secret services Fox[e]: A sharp, cunning fellow Frigate: A well rigged frigate; a well dressed wench Gawkey: A tall, thin, awkward young man or woman Gill: Abbreviation of Gillian, figuratively used for a woman. Gundiguts: A fat pursy fellow Harriden: A hagged old woman; a miserable scraggy worn-out harlot. Hobberdehoy: Half a man and half a boy; a lad between both Hussy: An abbreviation of house-wife, but now always used as a term of reproach Jack Whore: A large masculine overgrown wench Irish beauty: A woman with two black eyes Laced Mutton: A prostitute Ladybirds: Light or lewd women Mackerel: A bawd Miss: a miss or kept mistress; a harlot Nick Ninny: A simpleton Peculiar: A mistress Rantipole: A rude romping boy or girl; also a gadabout disipated woman Rib: A wife; an allusion to our common mother, Eve, made out of Adam's rib Sandy Pate: A red haired man or woman Scab: A worthless man or woman Slamkin: A female sloven, one whose clothes seem hung on with a pitchfork Tosspot: A drunkard Willing Tit: a free horse, or a coming girl Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Yeah, I know I can subscribe to the OED online. But I also know this gives you joy. Say, you do Elizabethan from time to time, yes? I want to run a few appelations past you and see if I have them right or not. I know them for 18thc, but not 16thc. "Mistress"-- form of address for a married woman "Mrs. Fairfax". Also a form of address for a superior, particular one's employer. Can it be used with the given name? "Master" -- form of address for a man of higher rank than yourself or your employer. Has this come to be used for boys yet? Or is that purely 19thc? Would one call a Head Brewer "Master Brewer" or "Master Fairfax" or "Master Bob"? Or is he too low-ranking to be any of these (brewing not being as much a professional as a Kitchener's duty, like baking...). What level of address would be used for a brewer's wife? In other words, what level is she? Is she akin to the wife of a merchant or more like the wife of a cook? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Do Elizabethan quite a bit (used to be curator of the Golden Hind y'know!) I don't think forms of address were too defined, but generally I think it's a matter of respectability. For example, a brewer might not be a professional man, like me (a sea-captain in this example), but I like beer and I don't have the skill to brew my own so I respect what he does. I'd probably call him Master Fairfax. If we were great friends then I'd call him Bob. I can't imagine calling him Master Bob. (note: it comes hard to me to respect anyone called Fairfax, but if I'm ever going to then let it be a brewer) Same for mistress, it's a politeness thing rather than a social order thing. One of the things which is often overlooked is that servants and tradespeople were much more respected in the 16th-17th centuries than later. They were seen as people who were fulfilling one of the necessary stations in life. It was believed (possibly rightly) that for society to function you need every class from the labourer to the noble, therefore, if you were a noble (or a higher class or whatever) you didn't so much look down on those in the lower orders. You gave them orders because that was your job, they obeyed them because that was theirs. You didn't treat them badly (OK, some people did, but not generally) provided they fulfilled their part of the deal. Thus, although you were "superior" to them, you were all part of God's plan and respected one another as such. Having said all that, servants (ie, people who were not independent of masters) would probably be called by their name without a title. So, if Bob's the brewer who works in my big house then I'll probably call him Bob (or Fairfax) and you Mrs (or mistress) Fairfax, but if he's the brewer in the local tavern (even if it is on my estate) I'll call him Master Fairfax (probably)... Criminals, vagabonds, the unemployed, and people of poor morals were outside the system, you can throw as much shite at them as you like. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Rock on! Thanks, Master Foxe (don't think that one got past me in your first post). Could you recommend any books or websites that deal well with the subject? Thanks so much! Kass Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 (note: it comes hard to me to respect anyone called Fairfax, but if I'm ever going to then let it be a brewer) Bloody well said, Sir!! Kass, when Mom was a teenager, in Yorkshire, her Father and Grandfather, both of whom were from Warwickshire, used to refer to her as a sightly wench. Even as late as the middle of last century, it seems that wench was still in common use and meant no more than an unmarried girl. I add the counties, because English, until the advent of televison and radio, was extremely regional in it's dialects. Still is, in parts of the backcountry. I, being brought up in the Dales, spoke very nearly a different language when I came to this country. If you've ever seen any of the episodes of "All Creatures Great and Small", think of the old farmers. That was my dialect. I find it interesting that at Faire, everyone is either a false Cockney, or from the West Country. Slipping back into my home dialect has been very useful and there is at least some documentation that it has not changed much in a couple of hundred years. It's not just accent, either. Vocabulary, syntax, everthing is changed. So if I'm going first person, I'll go back to the Dales. The other thing that I've found very useful is just reading Shakespeare. that will give you a good sense of vocab and syntax. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Thanks Rod. You pretty much guessed my purpose -- I don't want to sound like Eliza Doolittle! I guess I'll just have to break out my "Complete Works" eh? Say, have you ever heard those dialect tapes from Stuart Press (Skyes used to sell them)? If you have, are they any good? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 'Oh for a Muse of Foire'? I have a copy, somewhere. Luke used to swear by it, but I'm not so sure. Plimoth makes everyone sound like they're from the West Country, even those from Nottingham, and I know a lot of their research comes from there. I just think it's a bit too much of one dialect and does not show the variations. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyrn Ramsey Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Kass i have a copy of the well tempered dialect i can burn it for you if you private message your snail mail address... it is a pretty good one and has tutorials on it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I do recall from my Ren. Faire days that a kitchen slut was the lowest rank of servant in a household. If remeber correctly the term appears in A Comedy of Errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Roberts Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ok so we all want to portray a proper image, what about speech? Is there a period dictionary available? I would love have a good reference in one place. Second, we always read on how pyrates and sailors swearing and cursing. What was considered a curse? Were they specific words? Or more just phrases? I got to thinking about one day and figured I’d post a question. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hallelujah! I would like to know more about this topic as well as I am quiet convinced not every single pirate spoke like he just walked out of the pub in Cornwall... I know there were cockney accents already established by the GAoP. I have been studying Gaelic and the smoother versions of Scottish accent, not all those hard rolling 'r's.... that are so typically heard... for my character. I would start with nautical terms of the time frame first, at least know what you are talking about onboard your ship. Also many of these terms did fall into common use amongst sailors... there are a number of books that claim sailors had their own lingo and a person could actually tell they were a sailor because of the words they used... Then see if you can find a reliable 18th century dictionary and just start reading any original letters, or copies of, that you can for your time frame and the country of origin for your character... Here's hoping more folks will jump on this topic... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Somewhere around here I've placed a link to Capt Grose's Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue... or maybe somewhere around the pirate brethren forum... hmmm... no, actually on both. Here, during last year's Talk Like a Pirate Day, under... the Rabble Rousing section? And on the pirate brethren forum I think I stickied it somewhere. Ok, so it's the 1811 edition, but ALOT of his words go back into the 17thC, and he usually is pretty good about giving a little background (or at least the edition I own does). My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 here, because it was easy to find... http://www.piratebrethren.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57 My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 My research fairy godmother just sent me a stack of articles about 18th century speech (because Captain Sterling and I were talking about it and I got to thinking as I often do...). I just got it all in the mail yesterday and haven't had a chance to read more than the titles. But when I'm done, I'll be happy to report what I've learned! Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganTyre Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Whenever a customer comes in to the shop, generally to inquire about masthead work though sometimes just blocks, one word is pronounced in either of two ways. The word is sheave or in plain english the round thing inside a pulley that the rope rolls over. The two pronunciations are either sheev (like it's currently spelled) or shiv. For some reason the pronunciation of shiv has ALWAYS driven me completely insane. That word alone would immediately convince me you were nothing but a lowly stinkpotter masquerading as a sailor even if you'd grown up aboard a schooner and your mastery of the two-stroke is limited to a weed-eater. I know this is wrong of me. It's prejudicial and unwarranted and I'm not proud of it. However, minor annoyances are minor annoyances and I can't help disliking that anymore than I can help disliking lima beans. Well, all of those poor souls who have quietly earned my contempt should now feel vindicated. From Ashley's book of knots: 3155. Blocks are of two kinds: "made" blocks , of several pieces, and "morticed" blocks, which are chiseled out of a single piece of wood. The early name for a grooved wheel in a block was shiver which, after 1627, was contracted to shiv, the name that is used at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitz Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 The early name for a grooved wheel in a block was shiver which, after 1627, was contracted to shiv, the name that is used at present. SO I am guessing that the phrase "Shiver Me Timbers" was drawn from the act of using a "Shiver" to tension the timbers while bending them. This would be difficult & dangerous work, thus the exclamation of suprise... No source for this I am just speculating. Rabz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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