Whips and such...

[Lady Alyx]

Just wondering if Pirates kept whips as a part of their armament along with pistolas and swords/knives.

[The Doctor]

Sorry, I just had one of those "Gomez Addams" moments...

[Lady Alyx]

....hmmmm is that a blowing up a train fetish?

(toy train that is)

[The Doctor]

No... the bullwhip and the rose thing. Never mind.

[michaelsbagley]

Hmmm....

I would guess yes to pirates having some kind of whip... Flogging seems to be mentioned often with regards to punishment on board a ship.... I don't think a modern cowboy style bullwhip (like an Indiana Jones style whip) would be appropriate, but some kind of short leather whip would probably be around...

BUT, I highly doubt a whip would be a first, second or even third choice of weapon under any circumstances (it takes a lot of space to effectively use even a short whip. Rigging etc. would get in the way), so it would probably be used almost exclusively for punishment, or possibly for herding livestock onto or off of the ship....

That would be my best guess based on my pretty limited reading so far....

[Lady Alyx]

Thanks Michael, yes I did not think a long bullwhip type either, but a short whip or cat.

Mad Jack...uh huh

[Red-Handed Jill]

A bullwhip would get caught in the rigging or some other part of the ship - to long and ungainly. Cat 'o nine tails were used to start the crew on many a ship, though.

[Lady Alyx]

for those interested:

SnakepitLeatherworks

[PirateSSe]

for those interested:

SnakepitLeatherworks

Nice stuff!

[Capn_Enigma]

I highly doubt that historic (as opposed to hollywoodized) pirates (and not even their bosuns or quartermasters) sported whips of any sort. After all, whips were the very symbol of the hated oppression by "god- given" authorities; the very reason why a sailor would turn pirate.

[Lady Alyx]

...BUT.....if you look under yer own siggy...it says....the floggins will continue until moral improves...LOL LOL LOL

[Capn_Enigma]

LOL, true!

[Red-Handed Jill]

According to a lot of accounts, there was punishment, but it did have to be voted on. So no whipping for being insolent to an officer (no officers), but probably if they did something to jeopardize their fellow pirates and those other pirates agreed that a good thrashing was in order.

[Capn_Enigma]

I know that, but I doubt that a whip or a cane was as omnipresent on a pirate ship as it was aboard a man- o- war.

[The Doctor]

Jill's absolutely right. All one needs to do is read any of the extant ship's articles. Reckless behavior or theft could get you on the wrong end of Moses' Law - "40 lashes less one". And a cat-o'-nine-tails (usually stored in a sack) was the typical tool of choice. And as you guessed that's where we presumably get the phrase "let the cat out of the bag".

[Capn_Enigma]

Like i said, I know the articles.

So s'pose you tell me, Jack: How often does a theft occur on a pirate ship? Often enough to have a man carry a whip all the time?

I don't think so.

Especially not when the perpetrator knows very well that he is finished in the pirate community if he is discovered, whipping or no whipping.

[Lady Alyx]

Perhaps not everyman had a whip or a cat. Those who laid out punishment probably had a few. I was thinking along the lines of his or her private collections...perhaps if he/she went ashore the whip could come in handy...."Hey mate git yer bloody hands offn me tankard" kkkkrraacckkkk!

[The Doctor]

Like i said, I know the articles.

So s'pose you tell me, Jack: How often does a theft occur on a pirate ship? Often enough to have a man carry a whip all the time?

I don't think so.

Especially not when the perpetrator knows very well that he is finished in the pirate community if he is discovered, whipping or no whipping.

I did not say that every man carried a whip, nor that any particular man carried a whip at all times. Only that at whip was available for delivering punishment. And one can reasonably deduce that theft was prevalent enough that it warranted specific mention in the ship's articles, as were gambling and drinking. And the historical accounts support it. Draw what conclusion you will.

[Capn_Enigma]

[..] a cat-o'-nine-tails (usually stored in a sack) was the typical tool of choice.

None of the cat - o - nines that we know today was ever used on a man. They are "decorative" examples of fancywork.

Each real cat was made right before the punishment from an ordinary piece of rope. Each rope consists of three strands, and each strand consists of three more strands, hence the "nine tails". It makes no sense storing the cat in a bag, as each was discarded after use.

Had a cat been used on two or more occasions, the result would infallibly have been the death of each man after the first one, due to gangrene- inducing bacteria on the cat feeding on the blood and tissue of the victims.

[JohnnyTarr]

I personaly have to doubt that theft was written into articals because it was often. I would say that before the articals as well as after there was theft. Here is an excerpt from "The Pirate Dictionary" by Terry Breverton. "Cat o' Nine Tails- a short stick with nine knotted ropes to flog seamen. In the Royal Navy the prisioner was forced to make the cat and tie knots in each of the nine tails. For theft in the army and navy, a special thieves cat was used, which had three knots in each of the nine tails. Originally made by the viction they were later standard ready-made issue at military stores. If this is found to be incorrect please state your refference material.

[Capn_Enigma]

Whipping was a less frequent punishment on pirate vessels. The powers of pirate captains always were limited, and officers were elected from the 1680s or earlier.The entire crew tried serious crimes and usually marooned the guilty, Only the quartermaster could flog a man, and only with the crew's approval.

Jan Rogozinski, "Pirates!"

[Lady Alyx]

wow this has been an interesting thread....also in POTC2 what was used on Will from good ole daddy?

I just found this link...was interested to read about the bombs and stinkpots (in POTC1 one of Barbosa's pirates in town was always dropping them- small round ones)

ThePiratesRealm

[JohnnyTarr]

Whipping was a less frequent punishment on pirate vessels. The powers of pirate captains always were limited, and officers were elected from the 1680s or earlier.The entire crew tried serious crimes and usually marooned the guilty, Only the quartermaster could flog a man, and only with the crew's approval.

Jan Rogozinski, "Pirates!"

Ok so the difference between the Naval vessels and the Pirates ones. I guess the Pirate captain would have to walk a fine line because the one he ordered whipped today could be the captain next week. Thank you for the reference that way I can work on my libaray.

[PirateKing]

Ahoy Lady Alyx -

If you are looking for some good info on Pirate weaponry, you should check out http://www.thepirateking.com/historical/weapons.htm

Tons of good info and lots of nifty pictures.

Hope this helps!

[Lady Alyx]

checked it out..thanks great info for details!!!