Mercury Flag

[William Brand]

Hurricane brings up a point that has been brought up on this thread, and it is a good question. Would careening pirates fly a flag ashore?

To be quite frank, I am making a design solely as part of the background and personification of the sloop and the crew. I actually never intended it to be for a flag at the camp per se, nor did I intend us not to have one. I just started throwing out designs as a natural evolution of creating a crew. If we choose not to have an actual flag, I do still plan to make the design as part of our history as a crew. It might only appear in the Mercury's draughts or in literature we give out to the public. We can decide now or later if we want one to fly over the encampment. I'm sure the discussion might go wither way on the matter, as discussions often do.

And thank you kindly for the compliments.

[Captain Jim-sib]

Historical valid point of no flag at an encampment. In situations were public viewing is involved, that choice woulld be yours. Yet where spectators are welcomed, a unique flag is always an attention grabber and a source for visitor questions. It also lets ya know the wind direction.

[Captain Jim]

A ship careened is going to be noticed and investigated, especially by any authorities that come sailing by, provided that you haven’t picked a secluded enough site. This is back in the day when ships passing at sea would back sails and stop in mid-ocean for a "gam", exchange letters, open a bottle of rum, have a "captain's" dinner. Any ship aground is going to be offered aid. Also, remember that the world was smaller then, with fewer people, and while communication was not what it is today, folks generally knew who was in the neighborhood. You are going to be investigated. And if you’re trading with the locals at cut-rate prices they already know who and what you are. Might as well make the introductions formal and fly your flag.

And as a warning that we are not to be trifled with.

[hurricane]

So I'm a bit confused. Are you careening or ashore trading? Most careening parties I've seen involve all work and very little play. The idea was to get the ship in top shape as soon as one could, since it was most venerable at the time it is on its side. So the barnacles and weeds need to be removed, leaks calked, rigging fixed, etc. Stuff would just be stacked up on shore, that which needed to be removed. If I recall the cannon and heavier things were left on board and used to shift the ballast of the ship so she could be more easily tipped then righted. I would imagine that most pirates careened in a remote place, so as not to be discovered by a passing Navy or merchant ship and be reported.

But that's just what I know of careening. A lot of unpleasant hard work in as short of time as possible.

Where's GAoF, Blackjohn and Foxe on this one?

-- Hurricane

[Captain Jim]

We're all still playing with this scenario. Right now we are imagining that we are careened near a sympathetic town and so both trade and work can occur. Our sympathisers would also warn of any official activity.

Imagine that we arrived before the optimal tide to set up defenses, did some trade. Worked like hell on the boat in the days before the spring tide and, after refloating, we "unwound" a bit with the local female entertainers.

[blackjohn]

If I may...

My own flag is a skull with wings. About five or six years ago my wife and I spent quite some time in New England studying designs on headstones, looking for something historically suitable. The skull/wings we chose looked very much like this:

Part of the reason for doing this was, I wanted to get an appropriate looking skull. And there is more I can say on the subject, but I will refrain.

One final word, on the matter of careening camps and flags. I would never raise a jollyroger onshore unless the camp was under attack. However, this is one thing that we did with ours while in camp...

Worked on it! Sitting around in camp is a great time for idle hands to man a needle and thread!

[Cascabel]

Aye, Blackjohn....

I agree with you on this. A much more realistic way to do it. It would be displayed nicely for the public if partially spread out, and could be easily hidden if the "authorities" put in an appearance.

As a matter of fact, it might be kinda neat to have a couple of the British soldiers come by once in a while, and have some doxies distract them while the flag under construction is hastily hidden away. Gives several people something to do.....

>>>> Cascabel

[Captain Jim]

I do prefer the "primitive" nature of Blackjohn's graveyard skull. I was looking for something like this to suggest the change. Thanks, Blackjohn. The skull on mine is lifted from the Emmanuel Wynne flag, but I like this one, or something similar, better.

On the subject of flying the flag in camp: I suppose it would depend on the situation and the audacity of the captain in question. If you're trying to go unnoticed, don't fly it.

Under attack, no question. Hoist away and let fly from the shore mounted cannon you set up in advance of grounding the ship, or from that line of cannon facing inland and loaded with grape.

In a secluded anchorage in the middle of nowhere, why bother? There's no one there to see it.

But in a situation where anyone visiting a pub in town already knows what and who you are, it would serve as a welcome mat (let's trade) and a warning (-but as at sea, muck about with us and you won't live long enough to regret it.)

[Patrick Hand]

I haven't posted anything about the flag, because I have kinda mixed emotions about flying one in camp.... on one hand, the public expects pyrate flags.... But would it be historicaly accurate....?

But Blackjohn's and Cascabe'sl Idea sounds really do-able....

A much more realistic way to do it. It would be displayed nicely for the public if partially spread out, and could be easily hidden if the "authorities" put in an appearance.

It's not "over the top Hollywood", but it lets us have a Pyrate flag.....

I also like the cruder version of the skull with wings from the headstone... Sorry William, but your designs look way too nice.... I don't think Pyrates would make a skull that is so anitomicly correct.

[Silkie McDonough]

Well, my two cents.

Agree on Blackjohns suggestion for the skull and wings.

Agree on the "display" of the work in progress.

As much as many of us may want to be re-enactors we still need to give the public something of interest. Small things like hiding things from the authorities, trying to spring Reed and Bonny, moving equipment, provisions and such, cooking meals, dealing with locals etc ...all mundane to us but entertaining and perhaps educational to the public. Without the public we don't get to play.

[Captain Jim]

Actually, I do like the idea of having the flag "in camp" but not flying. At PiP last year, my flag was used to cover non-period stuff in my tent, which was open to the public. That is until the last night:

[hurricane]

That's a very cool use of them, Captain Jim! Last year we had our large one flying above our booth but would likely make a smaller one for situations like this. Obviously, we'll be flying an appropriate British flag in Port Royal this year. But perhaps each crewe or gathering can have their flag flying along the walls, sort of like we tried to do. That would really dress up the area and recognize those in attendance!

-- Hurricane

[Jack Roberts]

Version 10 or 14.

I know that the designs look nice and crisp on the computers but when you sew it or paint it gets nice and gritty. That what happened to my designs anyways.

Here's a thought. Maybe we can get a bunch mass produced and be able to sell them to the public as keepsakes? I don't know might be a way to raise a little cash for PiP.

[Tartan Jack]

I am JUST reading this thread.

I like the concept (and am already playing with one based on the tombstones on:

http://www.capecodgravestones.com/styles.html

The only issue from an artistic standpoint is the red hourglass on black looks very "black widow" to me, which could either be a good or bad thing. However, I think most visitors may think "blackwidow pirate" more than hourglass.

Great artwork!!! (by the way)

[William Brand]

Sorry for the absence on this thread. It was a busy few days and I'm suffering from not a little artistic burnout. Shall I attempt a more period look? I can borrow on the headstones.

[Salty]

William....the death's head is not a bad idea since folk would have been familar with it from tombstones.

Was it here that someone asked if the skull and wings were and intergal part of each other?...... if not there are many variations on teh deaths head i can post some examples if any one is interested from a study on tombstones i did.

By the way everyone who worked on designes they all have their merits

[Tartan Jack]

William....the death's head is not a bad idea since folk would have been familar with it from tombstones.

Was it here that someone asked if the skull and wings were and intergal part of each other?...... if not there are many variations on teh deaths head i can post some examples if any one is interested from a study on tombstones i did.

By the way everyone who worked on designes they all have their merits

Well, I'd be interested, even if it is JUST by PM.

I am trying to make some of my OWN flags, just for the fun and challenge of it. I want to try as many technique variations and designs as possible.

I am JUST learning of PIP and have to see how this year goes. If it happens in the right way, I would be VERY interested in taking part (even if I cannot make it there in person).

[Salty]

Wages,

sent em to ye via pm, if anyone else is interested, i can post them in twill or beyong pyracy?

Salty

[Tartan Jack]

Wages,

sent em to ye via pm, if anyone else is interested, i can post them in twill or beyong pyracy?

Salty

Got em.

Thanks!!!

VERY interesting!!!

[Stynky Tudor]

On 2/2/2007 at 10:34 PM, William Brand said:

I do still plan to make the design as part of our history as a crew. It might only appear in the Mercury's draughts or in literature we give out to the public.

Granted, I'm reviving this thread from 2007...

But I've seen the Mercury flag fly several times now, are there any pictures of the Mercury flag being designed, sewn, constructed?