ROYALISTE IS UNDERWATER

[blackjohn]

I was going to remain quiet on this, and I will remain so on this particular incident, not having been there, other than to say I am very happy everyone is safe as well as the ship. However, on the general subject of nautical charts, I would add the following.

As I like to remind every nautical cartographer, the chart is just a model of reality. As a model, it is limited in many respects. Things such as scale, quality of data, and age of data all combine to make a chart either a useful tool or a dangerous one. Every good mariner knows that. And every good cartographer keeps that in mind while updating a chart. My own personal standard was this - update the chart with the thought that a friend or a loved one might be sailing those very waters someday.

Coastie is right, with respect to age of survey data. I've investigated chart inquiries where the most recent survey was from the 1870s.

[Captain Jim-sib]

One principle that I would drive home to my geology students is the "Law of Holes" which simply states that "all holes will eventually be filled...no matter how large or small."

I have seen the dredgers working on the ICW, as many of you have, & seen much of the surry mixture placed on the bank that flowed back into the waterway. Given rain erosion, current & tidal transport of the sediment, I am surprised that more vessels are not grounded.

[BadMcCrack]

Sorry, all ye pirates. Was only approaching this from a point of view of discovery of how an accident like this may have occurred, which is how your coast guard would investigate if they did so,, police officers look at these things as well in cases of highway incidents involving lories and other motor transport,, and certainly insurance companies in the event any passengers aboard may have been injured.

I do not know these people involved, how they conduct themselves or what their history is in the sealanes or roadways, or life in general for that matter, as it is none of my business. I do think these are important things to consider prior to emptying one's purse or encouraging others to follow suit on behalf of the party in question. These questions should not be taboo and one need not feel threatened by them. This is why I felt inclined to inquire BEFORE I engaged my PayPal account.

Cheers mates. You have all answered my inquiries most effectively.

[Red Maria]

IT came upon THEM quickly?

Crikey. I thought that only happened on winding lanes where the old stately oak trees are wont to leap forth just when one races down the home stretch.

Was alcohol involved in this accident?

I guess your unfamiliar with what happened to the Irving Johnson a little while ago.

http://ladywashington.org/archivemarch2005.html

maritime topography can change rapidly and even the best of crews can run afoul of it. Hacing made your apoolgies I just wanted to point out that s*&t happens not matter how much you try not to.

[BadMcCrack]

s*&t happens not matter how much you try not to.

Oh, indeed it does, Red Maria. See my reference to the stately oak trees leaping forth in my earlier post. Alas, I fear this irony was lost on most of you here.

[Red Maria]

Sorry hon were all a bit cranky seeing friends loose about everything they have. I wll say your an honest bloke. :)

[Capt Grey]

BadMcCrack, the Royalist and her crew have long been "mascots" of the Pub so as a new member, you were not aware of their history with this group.

It's good to be cautious about sending money to someone or an organization you don't know, but you would have seen from their web site that theirs is a legal, non-profit organization.

The members of the pub, me included, are emotionally bound up in the fate of the Royalist so anything that smacked of scorn or ridicule makes us pirates step up to fight.

Now that you know the truth of the matter and have heard from our resident experts on navigation, if you still desire to make a contribution that would be grand.

A rather rough welcome t'the pub. I hope ye don't hold it agin' us.

And I likes yer 3PO avatar.

[LongTom]

Sorry, all ye pirates. Was only approaching this from a point of view of discovery of how an accident like this may have occurred, which is how your coast guard would investigate if they did so,, police officers look at these things as well in cases of highway incidents involving lories and other motor transport,, and certainly insurance companies in the event any passengers aboard may have been injured.

I do not know these people involved, how they conduct themselves or what their history is in the sealanes or roadways, or life in general for that matter, as it is none of my business. I do think these are important things to consider prior to emptying one's purse or encouraging others to follow suit on behalf of the party in question. These questions should not be taboo and one need not feel threatened by them. This is why I felt inclined to inquire BEFORE I engaged my PayPal account.

Your concerns are legitimate -- you certainly are right in exercising care in your disbursements, on general principles -- and I apologize if I jumped down your throat.

However, I will say that one should beware of asking questions in a way that plants the seeds of an unfavorable answer in the mind of the casual reader. Stains are more easily applied than erased, and a man's good name is a material that ranks among the hardest to clean.

Also, one who asks such questions in all innocence and earnestness should refrain from interspersing them with smart remarks, lest his intentions be misconstrued. (Witness the above exchange. As for applying those principles to myself, I can only say, "Guilty as charged." I thought it was, well, that kind of argument. My apologies.)

Regarding encouraging others to donate: having done so myself, I should offer my perspectives on Gary and Kathy. I had the opportunity to sail with them for four days about a year ago. Everything that I saw during that time indicated to me that they were not only well-versed and competent in the handling of their craft, but also knowledgeable about hazards and extremely averse to risk-taking. I deem them entirely worthy of support in this unfortunate circumstance, and recommend them to you likewise.

[Salty]

as a newbie as well and not to stick my nose in...... yes questions are valid , smart arse comments do as well , having them explained is also valid. Granted unless members know each other in real life there is a great amount of trust that goes into helping someone you do not know. After looking at website and learning a bit about thier background even if they had not had trouble i still would have donated to thier cause.

Folk here are very sensitive to what is said at times and since it is done via computer and loses much of humanity tempers and misunderstandings happen very easily.

NOW that said and said by a few more then me.....lets pull to help the Royaliste as we can

[Silver Steele]

With all this aside now, anything new about the condition of the Royaliste?

[Desert Pyrate]

Not really. They're drying her, cleaning her, trying to pick up the mess. Apparently the engine isn't responsive right now, but that was almost expected.

[Rumba Rue]

BadMcCrack, I'd like to add that several of us know Gary personally and have been on the Royalist (myself included). I understand your wariness, but also understand ours.

Thanks,

Rumba Rue

[JohnnyTarr]

Not really. They're drying her, cleaning her, trying to pick up the mess. Apparently the engine isn't responsive right now, but that was almost expected.

You need an engine? I thought you had sweeps?

[Rusty Barrels]

I have not attempted to email them yet, is the Privateer 3600 Harbor Blvd #135 Oxnard, Ca. 93035 the correct address to send a donation.

[Red Maria]

That's an old address too. They haven't been there since May last year. I'm not sure the address I sent a holiday card is OK at this point. Sorry.

[Red-Handed Jill]

They just found bullet holes in her hull. Some yahoos decided to use her as target practice while she was on her side.

I'm speechless.

[Captain Jim]

There never seems to be an end to the stupidity of some people. Astonishing.

[Captain Jim-sib]

Get her jury-rigged & up to Beaufort fast!

[Coastie04]

They just found bullet holes in her hull. Some yahoos decided to use her as target practice while she was on her side.

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. We've had incidents up here in Alaska of shooting buoys, lights, and other navigational aids. I guess it's just something to shoot at, akin to shooting road signs, etc. It's really too bad that it happened to Royaliste, though. Are they below the waterline? Will they be hard to patch up?

I guess the one silver lining to this is that she now has officially been ransacked by scum-sucking pirates and shot up in battle.

Coastie

[Dorian Lasseter]

Not to digress from the thread, but...

Idiots will find anything to shoot at.... back when the Hubble Space Telescope was being built, the main mirrior had to be shipped from where it was produced. They had to build a special railway car for it. in process a decision was made offhandedly to bullit-proof the car.... good thing they did... when it arrived at its destination over One Thousand bullets were lodged in the sides of the car...

It would be grande if the fools who did this to the Royaliste were caught... make them pay for the repairs...

[Red-Handed Jill]

Pirates take their chances that their prey might be able to fight back.

These were cowardly thieves and morons.

[William Brand]

It really is too bad that the Royalist couldn't shoot back. Ahhh, the good old days.

[BadMcCrack]

Oh dear! I cannot believe this turn of events. How absolutely astonished I am that someone could sink so low.

This takes on a whole new dimenson and I, for one, am going to give until it hurts and I advise all of you who have not yet made a donation to do so, as you have been urged by the senior members of this fine forum.

This is an incredibly sad day for The Royaliste. My deepest, most sincere thoughts go out to ship and crew.

[Iron Bess]

These were cowardly thieves and morons.

Yeah... there seems to be no short supply of those.

[BadMcCrack]

These were cowardly thieves and morons.

Yeah... there seems to be no short supply of those.

Indeed, you are spot on, Iron Bess and Red Handed Jill. Cowardly thieves and morons to be sure. I hope they are rounded up and skinned alive, the bloody rotten lot of them.