kass Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Indigo is a pretty substantive dye. It wears with age, but it takes a lot of abuse. So naturally black wool overdyed with indigo would be pretty black. Not "true" black, but pretty dark with a bluish tinge. I buy the wool for my Monmouth caps and stockings from a woman who raises Black Welsh Mountain Sheep. They're a period breed. They're pretty obviously black. But they live outside. So their fleece gets little red tips to it from exposure to the sun. She coats many of her top fleece producers, though, so this only happens on the ends that get dirty and cut off anyway. Again, not what you'd call "jet black", but very, very close. Undyed wool also comes in a bunch of other colours -- grey, brown, even red! When we say "undyed wool", we mean off-white, but there are as many colours of sheep as there are of dogs or horses or cows. So "undyed wool" doesn't really tell us anything about the colour of the wool. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessie k. Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 How red? "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessie k. Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 So a black wool would be relatively inexpensive, while a black linen, on the other hand, would not be worn by just anyone, correct? "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Ever seen a red cow? Like that red. Black was an expensive colour. No doubt about that. Undyed black wool would have been quite different (and obviously not a fine cloth) from wool dyed with iron and tannins (the expensive way). Making the leap you're making is too simplistic and a bit dangerous, Jessie. I'd be cautious. If you want to justify wearing black, there was an extensive trade in second-hand clothing in this period. Your black clothing wouldn't have been new-looking (and therefore the black faded), but it is possible for a commoner to have black. Just top to toes black -- leave it for the Duke of Burgundy... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Just top to toes black -- leave it for the Duke of Burgundy... Wouldn't he be in a dark red colour? Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Wouldn't he be in a dark red colour Only if some Pyrates left him stranded on a deserted island...... then he'd be........ wait for it......... Marrooned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 kass before you do all your rinses to get the saffron to run clear do you set the dye first ....my gran always went from the dye pots to a vinegar bath to set the dyes ... it kept the colours from washing back out of the fibers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 {ignoring the boys and their pun-ishment} Yup. I did that, Hugh. The orange colour sits on top of the fabric -- you can literally wipe it off with your fingers. It doesn't penetrate the fibres at all. That's why it rinses away. Nothing will set it -- outside of a good spray coating of shellac. On silk or wool, this could be entirely different. Vegetable fibres react very differently than animal fibres. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 What about printed or patterned fabrics? Were they in existence. I have seen a few women in garb with prints and strips but don't know how accurate they were. Any links that someone could provide? Or should we start a new thread here to keep things organized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 What about printed or patterned fabrics? Checkes and stripes are period.... they just dyed the threads befor they wove it into cloth...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I found an interesting section of the craft store the other day: fabrics called "Homespuns". Found a lot of nifty, woven, patterns just perfect for sashes, scarves, bandananas, etc. Now, if I can only figure out just how to sew a hem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 What about printed or patterned fabrics?Checkes and stripes are period.... they just dyed the threads befor they wove it into cloth...... That's easy enough but I was referring to things like calico and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Both woven and painted/printed patterns are appropriate for this period, Murin, as Pat says. Nothing moreso than calico which was a very expensive cotton late imported from Calcutta, India (Captain Rackham was nicknamed "Calico Jack" for his love of the costly fabric). The problem is, of course, that not every pattern, stripe, plaid, et cetera that is available today was available back then. Many of the calicoes in modern fabric stores are based on more Victorian-period patterns, not Colonial or GAoP. So you have to be very careful. After years of studying period patterns, you develop an eye for what would be appropriate and what wouldn't. For now, if you don't see the pattern in a picture of an extant garment or you don't find it in the artwork, I'd avoid it. Solid colours were always much MUCH more popular than patterns and you can't go wrong with solids. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessie k. Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Ever seen a red cow? Like that red.Black was an expensive colour. No doubt about that. Undyed black wool would have been quite different (and obviously not a fine cloth) from wool dyed with iron and tannins (the expensive way). Making the leap you're making is too simplistic and a bit dangerous, Jessie. I'd be cautious. If you want to justify wearing black, there was an extensive trade in second-hand clothing in this period. Your black clothing wouldn't have been new-looking (and therefore the black faded), but it is possible for a commoner to have black. I've seen a LOT of red cows. Thanks, I've been trying to sort that out for awhile, that helps a lot! "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Somehow I figured red cows and you may have come into contact at some point... A bit of trivia -- there's a colour of a particular breed of sheep that's called "lavendar". The sheep aren't actually purple, but they have two coats -- a coarse wiry white overcoat that's fairly waterproof and a black soft, downy undercoat. This combo of coats makes them look grey, but the technical name for the colour for this breed is "lavendar". Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessie k. Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 What breed is that? "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ever seen a red cow? I've never seen a purple cow................ Drat.... off topic again......... Sorry........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 It's some Icelandic breed, Jessie. Sorry if I can't be assed to look it up. But I'm certain it was Icelandic... The funny thing, Pat, is that my friend and I went to a sheep and wool show the weekend before she got married. Her soon-to-be husband gave her one directive: "You may only buy a sheep if you find a purple one." She was really, really temped to get one of these Icelandic sheep, but they lived in an apartment. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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