Captain Jim Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Simple question here. While standing rigging of this time was usually deadeye tackle, the tensioning devices used to set them up and to hoist cargo were block and tackle pulley combinations. The question is whether they were iron bound or rope bound in the late GAoP ca. 1720, or if both were being employed at that time. And yes, I know they are called blocks on a ship. Used pulley to help avoid confusion and interest the non-nautical. Planning to work some up for pyrate camp. Thanks in advance for your help and feedback, O Knowledgeable Ones. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 I've not seen iron eyed blocks as early as the GAoP, but I ain't seen all of them. Rope is definitely period safe, and much prettier anyway. The difference between "block" and "pulley" is not just a matter of being on a ship or not: Pulley: 1. A simple machine consisting essentially of a wheel with a grooved rim in which a pulled rope or chain can run to change the direction of the pull and thereby lift a load. Block: 5. a. A pulley or a system of pulleys set in a casing. (thefreedictionary.com) Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 I like the rope-bound ones as well, I just couldn't exclude iron bound. I'll go with rope also because my 'smith skills are still developing. Meanwhile, in all my years at sea I have never heard a pulley called anything other than a block, including an individual single sheave variety. That of course is the sea lexicon which has been known to conflict with the lubber version. You know, port (larboard in our period) and starboard instead of left and right, stern not rear, below instead of downstairs, head and not bathroom, deck and not floor, cabin sole and not floor etc. Although the "casing" part of the difinition would seem to indicate the sides (cheeks), not always present in openwork all-iron pulleys. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 If the gods be willin' I'll bring these to PIP next year, and to any other event I remember to bring them to... Sorry for the image size, but I wanted to show the detail... the line on them is 3/4" or so... something I had layin' about.... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 What is a rope bound block? I am tring to learn as much as I can, this question stumped me as to what you were even talking about. So here is a chance to learn even more. Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 This is a rope bound or rope stropped block: Illustration found here. You should also take a look here. The ones Dorian posted are iron stropped or bound. In both cases other ropes/blocks are attached by the stropping. On the rope ones the rope also serves to keep the axle from backing out. Often there is a plate of brass over the ends of the axle openings to prevent this as well, often times decorative (I have no pictures of that though.) With the rope ones the weight of the axle is borne by the wooden cheeks. With the iron ones the axle rests internally on the iron stropping and the wooden outer cheeks help to prevent chafe and snagging on sails. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Although the "casing" part of the difinition would seem to indicate the sides (cheeks), not always present in openwork all-iron pulleys. You've hit the nail on the head there: A sheave is the round wheel with a groove on the outside. Stick an axle through the hole in the middle of a sheave and you have created a simple machine, the pulley, which can be attached to all sorts of things. If you put the pulley (or more than one pulley) in its own casing you have created a block. A pulley used as an integral part of a different machine would remain a pulley, and not a block. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 And since pulleys on early ships would almost certainly have been universally enclosed within wooden cheeks, they would universally have been called blocks. Works for me. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganTyre Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 This may not extend to traditional rigging but in the modern vernacular sheaves that aren't in a block but do serve as a pulley are just called sheaves - such as the masthead sheaves a halyard runs through. In traditional terminology (nevermind about as far back as GAoP) would one refer to this sort of arrangement as a pulley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 In the GAoP, they didn't put haliards through the masts (at least in no examples I've seen or heard of). The haliard would go to a block tied on to the mast, and then down one side of it. I'd imagine that cutting a slot for a pully (if that's what we'll call it) would weaken a wooden mast too much, or be too much work on the bigger masts. I know on later period vessels (such as CGC Eagle) that have hollow steel spars, a chain is attached to the yard that then goes through the mast on a pully and is shackled to a length of rope that continues the haliard to the belaying pin. However, I'm pretty certain that type of arrangement is out of period. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Before hollow masts any hoisting was done by blocks attached to the mast, crosstrees, etc. sheaves are the actual "wheel" that is the heart of the pulley. Built into the mast there are no other parts but the sheave and the axle or pin. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganTyre Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yes I know that a sheave in a spar is WAY out of period - that's why I specified "nevermind GAoP" I was just curious about the term pulley in traditional rigging (and a slot cut into a spar - especially a dumb sheave in a small boat masthead goes way back) as it's more or less absent from modern rigging terminology. As a side note about dumb sheaves (for those who don't know) - this is a hollow groove cut into the end of a solid spar. The line bears directly on the wood and there are no moving parts, hence LOTS of friction so it's effective only for small rigs such as a shoulder-of-mutton on a Jolly-boat in which case it would be appropriate for it's simplicity, ease of stowage and maintenance and bulletproof reliability. Though I have no direct evidence of this extending back into the GAoP it's simplicity (far more so than a block) leads me to believe the idea is probably pre-biblical. Incidentally, thanks for the links on the rope stropped blocks. Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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