A functional cutlass

[Benjamin Hornigold]

I'm looking to acquire one.One that is functional,workable,durable.I've heard good things about the Dutch cutlass from MRL,which is coming back onto the market next Spring.

Can anybody tell me if it's more that just a wall decoration?

What about the other cutlasses from MRL/Atlanta Cutlery?I'm afraid of getting something that will shatter in use?

I talked to a knifemaker in Elyria,Ohio,who would make me a copy of the Dutch cutlass,and wanted $3,000.

What about the Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass?Is it useable and viable?I was thinking of customizing one.

[Fox]

If you want something period and combat-safe you might contact Phil Fraser. He had a couple of functional swords copied from the Exquemelin engravings. £200, but very good swords.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Welcome aboard!

Finding a sword to use for pirate living history/re-enacting is the $64 dollar question of the day.

I see you took pains to explain what you were looking for, but I am going to ask a little more information.

You say

One that is functional,workable,durable

What is your intended purpose with the sword?

1) There are swords for show, which would be highly accurate reproductions and originals that would not be use for blade on blade contact (though you could at a risk of your lost investment)

2) Swords that are made with the intention of using for blade on blade contact (which I will refer to as theatrical)

and lastly

3) Swords that are made of inferior steel, not meant for contact or replicate any known GAoP pattern sword.

There are very few good authentic GAoP era repros on the market. There are a few hangers from Godwin or Townsand (Black John has one). And a few smallswords out there... but not a lot.

Most repros are of F&I and later era swords.

Custom jobs can be had for $500 and more... $3000 seems pretty steep.

I was at the Kassel Miltaria and Arms fair last weekend, and clam shell and other original period swords were going for around $1200-$1500.

Greg

[CaptainJackRussell]

I made quite good experiences with the swords by museum replicas/Windlass Steelcrafts. They're made in India, like many ugly and useless other weapons, but those are pretty nice and a completely different quality at a reasonable price.

http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCa...nion_sword.aspx

Tally Ho,

Jack

[Fox]

Really?

I've not found Windlass blades to be great quality, not good enough for prolonged combat use. Neither do they do a sword with a period correct appearance as far as I know (if authenticity bothers you - if it doesn't then they do some very pretty looking cutlasses).

[CaptainJackRussell]

I agree.

Not for prolonged fighting use, but to be a rather good copy of originals in weight and measurements incl. thickness of the blade etc.

I forgot one to add, my favourite one:

For prolonged fighting use there is a very cheap swordsmaker in Bohemia/ Chech Republik named Jiri Krondak ( http://www.fabri-armorum.cz )

He produces everything you like for reenactment and fight training. Choose his deluxe-line. I have four swords by him, the oldest (german "Langes Schwert") since 12 years, using it for training twice a week. I guess he will ship to almost everywhere. Durable, nearly unbreakable weapons with a quite good finish.

Jiri also offers special prices for groups and resellers!

The yours,

Jack

[Kenneth]

How come"fighting" swords all look so crude? Soft steel thats bulky and have no cling sound when they hit? Did pirates carry mushy swords so they would't get a ding in em'?

Also, you know how your sword gets all knurled and chewed up along the edge? Wouldn't that be like an added bonus when your striking with the blade edge? You think it would be like getting hit with a chainsaw!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Well, GAoP is my first "sword" period. While I dabbled in 15th century for a while, I didn't own any swords.

The ones I have owned have mostly been stainless, or crude indian copies of swords.

I have been going to some arms fairs and militaria shows in Europe over the last few years and have had some opportunity to handle some real 17th/18th century swords and I am amazed at the contrast.

The "real swords" are light (now I am talking period hangers/smallswords) and the blades and hilts are smaller and thinner than I would have thought.

I am on Old Dominion Forges waiting list, and will try to find an original if I can find one at a reasonable price.

Greg

[shadoes]

swords vary in thier 'ring' quality. CAS Iberia tend to thunk but whack two starfire blades together and you get a lovely ringing tone for example. So it all depends on the blade.

[CaptainJackRussell]

In a sword has a good sound it is a bad sword after all. Vibrations of the blade go up during fight, it's only a matter of time.

In historical fighting arts there is no parry as seen in the movies. This would ruin a sword fast. First in gets the shape of a saw, then also a great sword of a quite fine smith will break. Metal gets compressed, the steel looses it's crystal structure...that was it.

The real fighting style let's energy never end, just changes direction of it.

Cheers,

Jack

[Benjamin Hornigold]

Thanks,gentlemen,for the feedback that you've provided so far.

Right now,based on what Gentleman of Fortune has mentioned,I'm looking for something that he would have described as "theatrical," at the very least.By that,I mean something that would stand up to "blade on blade "contact.

Further,I'd really like to get something that would be good for long term wear.

I wrote to the guy at Old Dominion Forge,and was informed that there would be a waiting list of at least 2 years.

I'm investigaating the chaps at Reliks.com,with their brass pirate cutlass.They state that it's "battle ready"and the steel has a high carbon content.

I'd appreciate further feedback in this area.

[Kenneth]

I buy all my new swords (Fighting and "Useless") From Tony Swatton at www.swordandstone.com He's in Burbank. Very nice custom work if you can afford it. Might give him a call..

[Patrick Hand]

Just a silly thought.....

Why not buy two swords..... one that is good..... but you don't ding it up fighting with it.... then buy another cheap (one of those $40.00 stainless ones....) that you can trash.....

[CaptainJackRussell]

Because splinters or parts of the trashed one can harm the audiance or your opponent...:)

Jack

[Fox]

If you're looking for hard wearing then the best swords in the world bar none are made by Armour Class in Scotland. I've had my AC falchion for the better part of 10 years hard fighting and I've never filed it or taken burrs off the blade - I've never needed to. :)

They come in at around £100-150 ($200-300), but you'll never need to buy another sword. Custom work does have a waiting list though.

[Mick MacAnselan]

If you're looking for hard wearing then the best swords in the world bar none are made by Armour Class in Scotland.

Foxe,

Which Armour Class pieces (if any) would you say are appropriate for GAoP? TIA!

[kerrystagmer]

In a sword has a good sound it is a bad sword after all. Vibrations of the blade go up during fight, it's only a matter of time.

In historical fighting arts there is no parry as seen in the movies. This would ruin a sword fast. First in gets the shape of a saw, then also a great sword of a quite fine smith will break. Metal gets compressed, the steel looses it's crystal structure...that was it.

The real fighting style let's energy never end, just changes direction of it.

Cheers,

Jack

This is simply not true. Fatigue and work hardening are directly affected by alloy and carbon content of the blade.

The ring is simply caused by proper fit and in a lesser way by internal stress of the material.

I make hundreds of cutlass each year and every one rings like a bell. Almost every sword we make sees steel on steel abuse. The ability of the blade to handle regular abuse over a long period of time is completely the responsibility of the smith to chose correct alloys and hardening/tempering based on the expected use.

[Kenneth]

If you do damage your sword, the smith will tell you, "You were fighting with it wrong" or "You weren't fighting in the fighting guidlines."

Someone else will tell you, "You should have bought your sword at super duper swords and that wouldn't have happened"

Whatever super special sword you wait 10 years for, it's gonna get damaged and/or break somehow or another if your fighting with it on a regular basis.

[Fox]

Whatever super special sword you wait 10 years for, it's gonna get damaged and/or break somehow or another if your fighting with it on a regular basis.

Hmmm, I dunno. Like I said I've had my Armour Class falchion for 10 years now and it's seen a lot of combat - much of it full contact. I've never ever filed it or done any work to the blade and I can still run it down the fleshy bit of my hand between the thumb and forefinger with confidence that it won't even scratch. It shows no sign of giving up any time soon.

In terms of which AC swords are appropriate for GAoP, the closest thing they do to a period "pirate" sword is their 17thC hanger:

If you want to move away from cutlasses then the early basket hilt and the mortuary sword are a bit early, but were common enough for a few to have been still kicking around in the GAoP

A note on basket hilts: basket hilt swords were by no means excusively Scottish. The first example here is a copy of a very common English sword from the early-mid 17thC. Almost identical examples have also been found in early colonial sites such as Martin's Hundred and others. The bottom sword is also of English design and was common in the mid-late 17th century.

And then of course there's the rapiers. 17thC rapiers are not wrong for the GAoP, but they're not really quite right either.

A note on rapiers: the Armour Class rapiers have the same very excellent blade quality as all the other swords they produce, but IMHO they just don't feel like rapiers. I think the trouble is that because of the extra weight carried by a blunt sword the blade is too heavy. To counter that AC's fighting rapiers (they also do sharp versions) have shortened blades. This goes some way to repairing the balance problem, but to me they feel like longish hangers with fancy hilts - not rapiers. Having said all that they are still a joy to fight with.

But, as I said, don't forget that Armour Class will make custom swords. Send them a picture and ask for a quote.

[kass]

Hmmmm... Those first two look awfully familiar...

Hey Jim! That first one is the one that broke your mortuary hilt on Saturday. (And the one you kept stealing for the rest of the day!)

[Kenneth]

nice looking hanger!!

[Benjamin Hornigold]

I spoke to Chris at Reliks.com this afternoon,and he informed me that their Brass-Hilted pirate cutlass has a high carbon content ,is battle ready,and can be sharpened at my convenience and/or request.

Now,Reliks.com is the Ontario,Canada distirbuter for Windlass Steelcrafts.He stated that thier merchandise has improved in quality over the last 15 years.

can any of you folk out there provide me with some advice?

[shadoes]

I spoke to Chris at Reliks.com this afternoon,and he informed me that their Brass-Hilted pirate cutlass has a high carbon content ,is battle ready,and can be sharpened at my convenience and/or request.

  Now,Reliks.com is the Ontario,Canada distirbuter for Windlass Steelcrafts.He stated that thier merchandise has improved in quality over the last 15 years.

can any of you folk out there provide me with some advice? 

edit: Nevermind answered my own question

[Fox]

I spoke to Chris at Reliks.com this afternoon,and he informed me that their Brass-Hilted pirate cutlass has a high carbon content ,is battle ready,and can be sharpened at my convenience and/or request.

Now,Reliks.com is the Ontario,Canada distirbuter for Windlass Steelcrafts.He stated that thier merchandise has improved in quality over the last 15 years.

can any of you folk out there provide me with some advice?

Only that my own practical experience of Windlass blades (fairly recent ones) would not lead me to recommend them for combat use. :)

[CaptainJackRussell]

Hi, Kevin,

sorry for having a different opinion.

I have seen so many broken blades, all of the same reason. If you take a look on the break, you see the crystal structure of the blade's steel very good. It's matte, but 2-4 mm are like mirror polished. That's where the steel has been compressed and inflicted breaking.

The break is almost straight with a tooth on the opposite end. The typical way a blade breakes.

Foxe's adress looks quite great. Alternatively I still recommend Jiri's blades.

But, certainly, I've never seen one of yours. Just crying people with indian cheap replicas or united cutlery swords, freshly broken and spent a lot of money for nothing.

Cheers,

Jack

Marcus Berns

Fechthalle Hamburg

European Traditional Martial Arts

Mistere a' serm schola MERLET

Master Of Defence (HEMAC)

(sorry for that )