Loyalist Boarding Axes

[Rats]

Just got an E-mail and sounds like they got em in stock and I might send for one.

Anyone got one? Was it worth it?

Burried the hatchet yet??

Rats!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Boarding axes are cool. There is no denying that. And its one of the kit pieces that I would really like to have.

Here is my take on them for GAoP use though.

There are very few very few honest to goodness verifiable original boarding axes in existence. The boarding axe falls into a space between a hatchet (or tomahawk) and larger tree felling axes.

There earliest one we have is a Dutch Entrebil dated 1675. There is a drawing of it in Gilkerson’s Boarders Away with Steel (BAwS). Its overall length is 28”, and from blade tip to point tip its just under 10 inches. Its marked all over the blade, including the 1675 date. By looking at it, I would say it has slim langets that go about 5 inches down the side of the blade.

We also have a “blueprint” of a Sweedish boarding axe that dates to around 1704 (again, its in BAwS). It has a large cutting surface and a short slim spike. Its handle length is stated at 38”.

About the same time, the Swedish came up with a boarding axe/pistol thing that looks pretty cool, but the axe head is not a normal looking boarding axe head.

Here is the Loyalist Boarding Axe

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/axes.jpg

My problem with the Loyalist Boarding Axe, is that it looks like the Royal Navy Boarding Tomahawk axe that dates from around 1750. Nothing is “wrong” with that I guess, since there are no earlier pattern British boarding axes to compare them with. But to me its like using the British 1742 pattern sword for Pirate.

Yeah, sure, the 1742 sword is a pattern that even Swords and Blades of the American Revolution says dates back to the 1720s. But when you see that sword, you don’t think, “wow, look, that sword is the predecessor to the later 1742 pattern sword,” you say, “wow, look, that guy has a 1742 sword.”

For me, I just haven’t found the “right” boarding axe yet. I am sure that there are custom makers that will do a proper one for you…

Since this piece of kit is more ornamentation and having something to look at than ‘practical”, I think most re-enactors are better served fleshing out other parts of their kit until a proper solution, at a decent price, is found.

I go into a little more detail and have a few more links on my site… check it out at http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/weapons.htm

Just my two cents…

Greg

[Cpt. Alva]

I have a tomahawk, it has never failed to find its mark, and until the head flies off during a braining, it suits me just fine.......

I see no real reason to buy a 'boarding axe' which is just slightly bigger, when I have a perfectly servicable tomahawk (that it would seem, only I can throw, due to the weight)....

though, I do go through quite a few handles......

also, if you get hung up on dates, then its my opinion, you're taking things WAY too seriously....some of us can't afford to kit ourselves out in matching dates right from the start.....I only JUST started the pirate thing......as you can see by the fact that I don't even have a decent set of breeches yet.......

I see a 1742 sword, I don't think "Oh, how inaccurate", I think "Wow, Nice Sword"

at least its better than some of these cheesy wallhanger fantasy swords I see people carrying.........

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Well Captain Alva...

Yours is just one of the approaches to pirate re-enacting, and for that matter re-enacting in general.

We try to have a "live and let live" approach, at least here at the pub. As has been determined in missives here on this forum, and countless of other forums. You can do what you like.

Some people re-enact many different periods of history. Some are just shackled to one particular period and that is enough for them. And still others have one period that they are infatuated with and pursue it to the minutest detail, and then have another "blow off" period that they have an "anything goes" attitude.

What gets my panties all knotted up are those that take one period seriously, and then disparage those that take their “blow off” period seriously.

Granted, the percentage of pirate re-enactors that take it seriously is miniscule compared to the throngs of Ninja Pirates, Zombie Pirates, Jack Sparrows, and Fairy Pirates, we are nonetheless dedicated to trying our best to combine our own research with wading through incongruent historical documents to get it as close as we can.

I still enjoy seeing the juggling pirates at festivals and the kiddie/crowd entertainers too, and I am not shouting at them to, “For God’s sake man, get a correct pair of shoes!”.

That being said, I thought that Rats was seeking out opinions on Loyalists Boarding axe, so I obliged and gave him my opinion.

As as most of the folks here at the pub know, I try to base my opinions on what would have been reasonable for the 1680(ish) to 1720(ish) timeframe.

Rat appears to be trying to build an authentic kit for 1690-1720, by the company he keeps, the images I have seen of him, and his line of questioning here at the pub.

More on Boarding Axes.

Captain Alva has touched on a interesting point.

That is, during the 16th-19th centuries, Hundreds of thousands of axes (hatchets, tomahawks) were being sent to the Colonies for the colonist and to use in the Indian Trade. There are hundreds of different examples, styles and shapes.

The Le Salle wreck (1686) contained barrels full of Axe heads for this purpose.

To me, it’s a no-brainer that a pirate, whose job it was to intercept shipping commerce, would avail himself of an axe if he needed one and it presented itself.

Again, the GAoP is the near the begging phase in a lot of clothing, equipment, and weapon development. I would venture that there was no standard Boarding Axe pattern for in the GAoP, and that most of the axes depicted cover a lot of ground (from Halberd types to bearded axes).

So, in reality, I think it would be better (if authenticity is your goal) to have a plausible spiked tomahawk, than it would be to have a boarding axe that matches a pattern that we know was used 30-70 years later.

But hey, do what you like Captain.

Greg aka GoF

[Cpt. Alva]

Don't get me wrong, I see no disrespect, By all means, buy what you like......if you wanna kit yourself out in patterns, and weapons from a specific, rigid dateline, by all means......

but by that same token, not all of us can afford to do that......most of us use what we get........I have a decent set of leather boots, they're not specific to any period, and I enjoy them......

I can understand that this is a period that causes much confusion, as it IS a transitional period in fashion.......not to mention, the aforementioned "Costume Pirates", and those who want to be Jack Sparrow, instead of inventing their own Living History Persona........

But, a tomahawk is a good boarding axe, I don't need something that was specifically CALLED A Boarding axe, I just need a good throwing hatchet, which mine serves........it's a small, round-eyed hatchet, that weighs next to nothing.......and serves well.........the handles are quite hard to find, but that's my only complaint.......though, few others would be able to throw it, if I gave it to them, because it IS so light.......

If I came off as one who was trying to be disparaging to others, then I apologize, never was that my intent........

as for the Loyalist Boarding Axes, I'm not a Loyalist to Loyalist arms, as such, I have no real opinion, an axe is an axe.........if it cuts, and throws well, that's all the use I have for it........I don't get hung up on styles......

if anybody's interested, my Tomahawk is was made by a smith in Pennsylvania called "Fedderman", it has a "F" Stamp on the back, and apparently they're rare and somewhat collectible......the man who sold it to me told me I was getting a great deal on it......I bought it around the age of 14, for about $20

[Rats]

To be honest, this is exactly the kind of input I was looking for.

My crew is infact working toward a period correct persona and the last thing I would hope is to spend $$$ where it is not needed.

Capt. also have two very good and serviceable hawks, yet after seeing various movies (remember the cut away scene in Master and Commander?) I did see similiar axes, but that was a much later timeline.

Though my persona would generally avoid such a chopper, I am thinking about alternative personas and also for living history displays, props and such.

Perhaps the Godwin model will work then?

I thank you all for your advice!

Here's to us all!

Rats!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I think what I would do would be to get the Godwin boarding axe, and then put it on a bench grinder to thin out the spike a bit...

But I am kinda anal about stuff, sometimes for no aparent reason.

Maybe this is one of those times.

Good luck!

Greg

[Rats]

A great idea!

Plus they're here in the states, so less shipping??

Thanks again!

Rats