Captain Midnight Posted September 24, 2006 Posted September 24, 2006 Does anyone know where I might find a knitted Montero cap, and whether or not they were worn in the GAoP? They were a knitted or crocheted wool cap similar in construction and appearance to a Monmouth cap, with the exception that they had a short brim or visor similar to a modern baseball cap. They were worn by English troops (and I'm sure others as well) during the English Civil War, so I'm wondering if they would have been appropriate for a sailor of the GAoP. If anyone knows where I can buy one, I would sure appreciate any help you could provide. Thank you mates! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Captain Midnight Posted October 5, 2006 Author Posted October 5, 2006 Well mates, I was wrong, I don't think they were knitted, it seems they were just made of wool. Here are a couple of pictures of soldiers from the English Civil War wearing them. They were contemporary with the Monmouth cap, so I am wondering if they could have been worn by a sailor during the same period, or in the later part of the 17th century. Anyone know where I could find one of these in the U.S.A., or at least a pattern for one? "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Fox Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 There were lots or different designs for monteroes, but they were all pretty much based on the idea of a peaked cap with a folding neck piece. I'm pretty sure that Butler - who was a Navy and privateer officer - said it was his preferred headgear in battle. I'll check later. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Captain Midnight Posted October 5, 2006 Author Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks Foxe! What would be the date of that particular documentation? I would like to wear one of these caps too, but only if it is period-correct for the GAoP. Of course I have the usual tricorn hat, but a cap would be more comfortable and practical on board a ship... "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
kass Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 The ones you're looking at in those photos, Captain Midnight, are from a company called Skyes Sutlery. Have a google search to find their website. You have to order via phone though. The ones on those men are ECW era -- 1642-1649. That's all I know about Montero caps. Perhaps Foxe can turn up a later date for you. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Fox Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 Butler was sailing and writing in the 1620s-30s I'm sure I have seen later references to montero caps, but I'm jiggered if I can think where for the minute. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Captain Midnight Posted October 5, 2006 Author Posted October 5, 2006 So, if I wore one, would it be incorrect for me, Foxe? My pirate's persona is between 1680-1700... Kass, do you know of any place I could find a pattern for one? I'm positive I could make one myself if I had a few details... Thank you both for helping me with this, I am indebted to you. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
kass Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 Captain, I don't have a pattern for one on hand, nor do I know where to get one. But somewhere around here, I have a sketch of one that I may be able to extrapolate something from. Give me a couple of days and if I don't post to this thread again, PM me and remind me. K? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Gentleman of Fortune Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 If that doesn't work... I will take my digital camera with me to TORM. There will probably be several there. Or I could just buy you one and send it to you.... Whatever ? Greg Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
Captain Midnight Posted October 6, 2006 Author Posted October 6, 2006 If that doesn't work... I will take my digital camera with me to TORM. There will probably be several there.Or I could just buy you one and send it to you.... Whatever ? Greg Greg, That would be great! I have looked at Syke's Sutlery web site as Kass suggested, but I can't find Montero caps listed anywhere on the site. I see other types of caps and hats, but no Monteroes. I wouldn't necessarily need a sewing pattern proper to make one of these hats, just to be able to examine one closely. If I could see close up photos of the inside and outside of one, I could probably see all the seams and tell how to make my own pattern for it. I have a pretty good idea already, just from looking at these photos, but some close up ones would be awesome. If you do indeed have the opportunity to do that, Greg, I would be deeply grateful and indebted to you! Thanks so much! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Captain Midnight Posted October 9, 2006 Author Posted October 9, 2006 Here is one more pic of a montero cap: This is the style I actually like better than all of them...but notice out of all the pics of the hat I've posted, none are exactly alike, so I guess the styles were dependent upon the individual craftsman who made them? Note the man wearing a Monmouth cap in the background...both hats were popular and in fashion at the same period in history... I was browsing around online last night and found historical references to this cap being used by sailors, the reference was a man's personal diary from the period. However, I foolishly didn't save the link to the website, and lost it. But all you have to do to find it is to Google "Montero Cap Pattern", and look through the links...you can find it there. Now if I can just find a sewing pattern for it, or either draft one myself...(which is probably what I will end up having to do). "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Fox Posted October 9, 2006 Posted October 9, 2006 That's no man in the Monmouth cap! That's my mate Rich. I made the coat he's wearing... Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Captain Midnight Posted October 9, 2006 Author Posted October 9, 2006 Nice job on the coat, Foxe! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
Captain Midnight Posted October 9, 2006 Author Posted October 9, 2006 I found it. Here is the link to the reference site that I had lost and mentioned above: Pepys Diary Pretty interesting reading, if you like this period. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
kass Posted October 9, 2006 Posted October 9, 2006 Pepys' Diary is so cool! A little early for our period, but loaded with great information. Found the pic I was talking about: I don't know if it's much help to you, Midnight, but it's got some good detail... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Captain Midnight Posted October 10, 2006 Author Posted October 10, 2006 Kass, it is a GREAT help to me, thank you so much! Between this drawing and all the photos, I think I can make the hat now. And notice the date on the drawing...perfect for the GAoP... :) "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945)
kass Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 So it is! Glad to be of help, Midnight! Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
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