Looking for Fabrics?

[Gentleman of Fortune]

This was burried in another post... So I thought I would liberate it and add more as I see em'

Capn' Pete

Fancy can be tricky... as fancier materials generally would call for fancier buttons and trims, which can be harder to pull of well than a justaucorps made out of plainer materials..

Really nice textiles are tricky as "print" patterns are hard to find in a reasonalbly authentic pattern. That being said, I have found some folks that reproduce our textiles and are quite nice....

Check out some of them on my resources page here http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/Links.htm

Take a look at the E-Luxus site, I drool over that Bizarre pattern (that was only around during the GAoP!), I think it is meager $400 or so a meter.

That being said... Here is some interesting wool

http://tinyurl.com/hva49

(It sold for $41 or $10 a yard with shipping... good grab!)

I bought some of this a while back... same vendor

http://tinyurl.com/okvtv

Wow... that 100% wool grosgrain! A hard weave to find in silk or wool. I may be using it for this project, but I haven't made up my mind yet...

(Sold at $20... with shipping its less than $8 per yard)

4 Yards of a nice royal blue

http://tinyurl.com/nt3vh

(Sold for $21 including shipping... that is a little more than $4 a yard)

6 1/2 Yards of Navy Blue... That is enough for a justaucorps and breeches... $10!

http://tinyurl.com/mt9nk

(its 22.50... that is just a little more than $3 a yard... + shipping)

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Hey... if any of you are bidding on these, let us know so others can "back off"

Greg

aka

GoF

[Rats]

Just noticed this post!

Great idea GoF!

Maybe we should keep this updated and also add any sales or good deals anyone might find.

Especially for passing the word so we don't poach each other!

Here's to you!

Rats

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

Hey... I just noticed this thread, too. I never thought of looking for fabrics in ebay.

[Cheeky Actress]

Gee, perhaps we ladies should have said something about this venue sooner.

I know that I've been searching eBay for fabric stuff for some time now.

[Red Maria]

I'm trying to find some fustian and linsey-woolsey that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Does anyone have a sugestion or two?

Thanks

[CrazyCholeBlack]

Maria, I owe this link to Rats but so far it's the best prices I've found for what you're looking for.

http://www.periodfabric.com/default.htm

Indeed E-bay is the great repository of everything. The only problem is not getting to touch the fabrics ahead of time.

[Rats]

I actually got the link from me Captain and Mistress McKinney.

They have good stuff at a great price. They'll even send swatches and have much more than what's featured on their wensite. So call em and see what they have.

Rats!

[Red Maria]

Maria, I owe this link to Rats but so far it's the best prices I've found for what you're looking for.

http://www.periodfabric.com/default.htm

Indeed E-bay is the great repository of everything. The only problem is not getting to touch the fabrics ahead of time.

Thank you CrazyCholeBlack and Rats! This is perfect!

[roytheodd]

Maria, I owe this link to Rats but so far it's the best prices I've found for what you're looking for.

http://www.periodfabric.com/default.htm

Any idea which of these fabrics are period? I am leaning towards some of the striped cottons for bandanas, but I'd rather stay period than fashionable.

[CrazyCholeBlack]

when in doubt stick with linen & wool (& silk if you can afford it). cotton was around but labor intensive and there for expensive until the invention of the cotton gin in 1794 (right?).

Plus good medium weight wool & linen will work for just about every extreme of weather.

[Capt. Sterling]

The term cotton can be tricky regarding the GAoP period...

According to Florence Montogomery's Textiles in America 1650-1870, Cotton can mean the following:

"A term used to designate certain woolen cloths from at least the fifteenth century, so one must be cautious in reading the term. Wadsworth and Mann suggested that "the explanation of the use of the word cotton may lie in the fact that it had also the sense of nap or down, and the process of raising the nap of woollen cloths was called 'cottoning' or 'frizing" (p.g16) At the end of the sixteenth century, Manchester was "eminent for its woollen cloth or Manchester cottons" (Daniels, p. 71) An act of 1609 concerned "kendals and other coarse things of the like nature and made of the like coarse wool and differing in name only, called cogware, coarse cottons and carptmeals," and in 1620, exports to Europe "included woollen goods like Manchester, Welsh and 'northern' cottons, 'linsey wolseys and kerseys...." (Wadsworth and Mann pp. 16n, 21).

Page 206

[Capt. Sterling]

Also according to Montgomery (pages 263-264):

"Indian Goods

Anglo-Indian commerce in textiles began with the founding of the East India Company in 1600. This trade has been comprehensively discussed by John Irwin in Irwin and Schwartz, Studies in Indo-European Textile History. Of the trade in Indian goods Macpherson says:

It was about this time (1670) that the wear of the flimsy muslins from India was first introduced into England: before which time our more natural and usual wear was cambrics, Silesia lawns, and such kind of fine flaxen linens, from Flanders and Germany, in return for our woollen manufactures of various kinds, exported to these countries in very considerable quantities. [2:540]

During the last quarter of the seventeenth century, English weavers protested the stream of imported Indian goods which they considered detrimental to their own manufactures. Typical of the complaints is one published in 1678:

Instead of Green Sey that was wont to be used for Childrens Frocks, is now used Painted, and Indian-stained, and Striped Calico; and instead of a Perpetuana or a Shalloon to Lyne Mens Coats with, is used sometimes a Glazened Calico, which in the whole is not above tweleve pence cheaper, and abundantly worse. For either Perpetuana or Shalloon will wear out two Coats, or when it hath worn out one Coat, it will serve for one use or other afterwards for children. [Ancient Trades Decayed, Repaired Again, p.16]

Long lists of Indian imports were published in pamphlets, among them "A Particular of the Silks... which came from the East-India.... with the Rates at which they were sold at the late Sale at the East-India House" (Kress, S2180); "An Extract from the Dutch Printed Cargoes of the several Sorts of Goods Following, By them Imported from the East-Indies between the Years 1686 and 1696 Inclusive, Viz. Silks, or goods mixed therewith, Callicoes and other Goods Painted, Stained, Printed or Coloured There" Sorts of Silks and Callicoes usually imported from the East-Indies, Persia and China, Prohibited to be used in England, by the Bill Entituled, An Act for Restraining the Wearing of all Wrought Silks, Bengals, Dyed, Printed or Stained Callicoes" (Kress, S2200)...

Despite legislation prohibiting the sale, use, and wear of printed calicoes, they could be brought to England for reexport, and many other kinds of Indian textiles were manufactured on order for markets in North Africa, and the slave plantations fo the West Indies. This trade, including to the American plantations is described in Trade Goods by Alice B. Beer.

[Capt. Sterling]

"Calico: Cotton cloth of many grades and varieties first made in India and later in the West.

Seventeenth-century American references probably pertain to Indian calicoes: Edward Wharton's Salem inventory, 1677/78, lists "2 calico painted table cloathes" along with shirts and plain tablecloths (Dow, Every Day Life, p.265). An unusual 1684 use of white calico in Boston for bed curtains and chair covers reads: "2 pr. white Calico Curtianes, Valients, tester Clothes and 6 covers for Chaires."

Numerous entries for garments made of calico are found in the 1695/96 inventory of Margrita van Varick- nightgowns, neckcloths, aprons, quilted waistcoats, both white and flowered petticoats, handkerchiefs, and "clouts."

Montgomery. pge. 184-5

[Capt. Sterling]

As for several woollen sources try Hamilton Dry Goods, William Booth Draper, and B. Black & Sons...

[CrazyCholeBlack]

The term cotton can be tricky regarding the GAoP period...

According to Florence Montogomery's Textiles in America 1650-1870, Cotton can mean the following:

"A term used to designate certain woolen cloths from at least the fifteenth century, so one must be cautious in reading the term. Wadsworth and Mann suggested that "the explanation of the use of the word cotton may lie in the fact that it had also the sense of nap or down, and the process of raising the nap of woollen cloths was called 'cottoning' or 'frizing" (p.g16) At the end of the sixteenth century, Manchester was "eminent for its woollen cloth or Manchester cottons" (Daniels, p. 71) An act of 1609 concerned "kendals and other coarse things of the like nature and made of the like coarse wool and differing in name only, called cogware, coarse cottons and carptmeals," and in 1620, exports to Europe "included woollen goods like Manchester, Welsh and 'northern' cottons, 'linsey wolseys and kerseys...." (Wadsworth and Mann pp. 16n, 21).

Page 206

ok, now I'm confused.

"cotton" meaning the weave/nap of a wool fabric vs. "cotton" from the genus gossypium.

The "cottons" refered to in ASC are the former. The "cottons" sold at Period Fabrics are the later, as are the "calicos" mentioned during GAoP.

right?

[Mad Matt]

Oh, jeeze! It is just me, or is the room spinning?

Exactly who will be writing "Pyrat Fabric for Dummies"? And can I get a signed first edition copy, please?

[Capt. Sterling]

The term cotton can be tricky regarding the GAoP period...

According to Florence Montogomery's Textiles in America 1650-1870, Cotton can mean the following:

"A term used to designate certain woolen cloths from at least the fifteenth century, so one must be cautious in reading the term.  Wadsworth and Mann suggested that "the explanation of the use of the word cotton may lie in the fact that it had also the sense of nap or down, and the process of raising the nap of woollen cloths was called 'cottoning' or 'frizing" (p.g16) At the end of the sixteenth century, Manchester was "eminent for its woollen cloth or Manchester cottons" (Daniels, p. 71) An act of 1609 concerned "kendals and other coarse things of the like nature and made of the like coarse wool and differing in name only, called cogware, coarse cottons and carptmeals," and in 1620, exports to Europe "included woollen goods like Manchester, Welsh and 'northern' cottons, 'linsey wolseys and kerseys...." (Wadsworth and Mann pp. 16n, 21).

Page 206

ok, now I'm confused.

"cotton" meaning the weave/nap of a wool fabric vs. "cotton" from the genus gossypium.

The "cottons" refered to in ASC are the former. The "cottons" sold at Period Fabrics are the later, as are the "calicos" mentioned during GAoP.

right?

the term cotton can be meant to read woollens where as Calicoes seems to be more in line with fabric made from the plant...

[Capt. Sterling]

Maria, I owe this link to Rats but so far it's the best prices I've found for what you're looking for.

http://www.periodfabric.com/default.htm

Any idea which of these fabrics are period? I am leaning towards some of the striped cottons for bandanas, but I'd rather stay period than fashionable.

Go check out the neckscarf thread over in Captain Twill that should help you out a lot!

[kass]

Matt, don't let all these definitions confuse you. There are a lot of terms for textiles in use in the Golden Age of Piracy, but we can distill it down to a few very simple prouncements:

- plain and twill wools (like modern wool flannel and gabardine)

- plain and twill linens

To be on the safe side, go for solid colours. Patterns were in use, but which patterns are period and which aren't is a question that will sprain your brain. Err on the side of simplicity. Everyone wore solid colours most of the time. So go for solid coloured wools and linens. Nothing fancy.

As for the cotton vs linen debate, stick with linen. It's was more readily available in the period and modern linen still looks like period linen, which is more than we can say for cottons.

A great (and inexpensive) source for linen is Fabrics-store.com Tell them Kass sent you.

[Mad Matt]

Damn, Kass! I had you up until you said "distill". Then, suddenly, I got VERY thirsty!

Thanks for the help, though.

[kass]

ok, now I'm confused.

"cotton" meaning the weave/nap of a wool fabric vs. "cotton" from the genus gossypium.

The "cottons" refered to in ASC are the former. The "cottons" sold at Period Fabrics are the later, as are the "calicos" mentioned during GAoP.

right?

Right, Chole. You've hit the nail on the head.

There was no reason to bring up the 18th century term "cotton" (meaning a weave of wool) in this discussion. It's not pertinent to the question posed and it just muddies the issue and confuses people.

Kass

[kass]

Matt! What kind of trouble do you think I'm brewing up?

[Mad Matt]

I'm not sure, but count me in. We'll sort it all out tomorrow!

[Fox]

In addition to Kass's comments on plain and twill linen and wool I would also add that for sailors (including pirates) you might look at canvas and fustian.

The difficulty with canvas is that modern canvas tends to be made of cotton, which is not quite right. Period canvas should ideally be hemp based (there is a theory that suggests that the word "canvas" is a corruption of "cannabis" - the genus name of the hemp plant), but linen canvas sometimes comes up too, which would also be fine for GAoP.

Fustian has had various definitions over time, but in terms of GAoP era Anglo-American seamen the term probably refers to a wool/linen mix.

Short answer: go for wool and linen.

To answer the question about neck-cloths - linen. Patterned might be right (depending on the pattern) but plain will be right.

Now... when are we going to get into colours?