Real Cannon Information??

[Rats]

Ok, since we have folks in the know....

I'm wondering where a person would look to buying a working replica cannon??

What would one look for a correct GAoP model?

What kind of $$$ are we talking?

I'm sure there's some good pics out there!~!!

Thanks in advance!

Rats!

[HarborMaster]

A barrel can run any where from 200 bones to upwards of 15,000.00 bones., How big of a cannon do you want?., exaclty what size of a bore?., are you wanting a sub-scale firing replica.,or are you into more of a scale unit? are you o.k. with cast iron poured over a liner or solid steel machined out., or are you thinking more like an 800 to 5,000 lb pour of bronze into a mold?.,

Could you perhaps narrow it down a bit for us., this is a pretty broad field guessing game to figure out what you want.

I guess the real answer is how much money do you have?

Thats pretty much going to dictate your options.

[Rats]

I would hope the old girl would be full scale. However the rest is really up for grabs.

I know not what the difference is between the liners and such. However she would be used for demos and reenactments and such.

I can muster about 2 grand by the end of the year,(Still building the rest of me kit) and then if needed look to saving or investing a heafty tax return. I'm really in no rush. But let's face it, a crew should have their own gun to run out!

I'm sure it's like any firearm, you get what you pay for and then always kick yer self for not saving for an upgrade or better model!!

I'm just looking for a starting point or advice for what one should look for.

Without going into too much, what are the different variations one could find for a good ships cannon??

Thanks again

Rats!

[Captain Jim]

We had a cannon links page earlier on the forum here: Cannon links

Since you asked for opinions and such, my two pence: Full scale still covers a lot of ground, from rail guns (two to three feet long, weight about 60 to 75 punds) to 24 pounders and up (barrel only, 6 feet long, weight about 2000 pounds) so you need to consider what you will need for support. You will need a trailer for a big gun, but the smaller can be stowed in a trunk. The size of the accoutrements also goes up (far easier to store a two-foot rammer than a five footer.) So too does the appetite of the cannon. A one-inch cannon takes about 425 grains (about 1 oz) while a 3-inch cannon takes about 1750 (about 4 oz) One pound of powder supplies 16 shots for the small cannon and four shots for the large. (The examples above are for maximum blank loads, cut in half for projectile fire.)

For easy transport and small support in terms of crew, supply and stowage, I would get a rail gun, and then build an L-shaped section of rail/deck to mount it on. Full authenticity in a small package. If you become addicted to cannons (and you will) upgrading to a larger can be done later as cannon don't seem to lose a lot of value in resale. But for full authenticity in a deck gun, you will need to build a gun deck and a garage to store it in...and you might as well build it as a two-gun section...with an upper deck...and three rail guns...and recruit and train 18 people to run them all...

[HarborMaster]

Most of the links I have book-marked are companies that cover Civil War tubes., then less manufactors work their way thru history getting in the Rev war., for Queen Anne Era cannons., say light British 6 pounders about your only avenue for a full scale of that era would be South Bend replicas.,this will be much more than the 2k. What you could do is substitute it with say an 1841 6pounder.,at a 1/2 scale.,this gun can be had for 400-600 dollars and weigh out at 250 pounds less carriage. this would probably be your best bet. I think when you see this tube., you will agree that the lines.,re-enforcement rings (only 1 as opposed to 5) the muzzle and breech are pretty much a trimmed down version of the era your looking for., its not such a dramatic change as say from a queen anne to a Mountain Howitzer., those are a very straight tube., no bell shaped muzzle ect., spend a little time on this and a replica 1/2 scale 6 pounder will start looking pretty good., also a 1/2 6 pounder is quite a bit bigger than a swivel., its about as big asyou may want to handle., and it is bigger than some smaller full scale units ,. and with a 2.25" bore will ROAR like the lion on Winsors coat of arms no problem.

If you want a South Bend Replicas., British 6 pounder.,and really get accurate to the golden Age., and go in bronze., get ready for 10k ., no carriage.

Try Hern Iron Works or Grey Star for a 1/2 scale 6 pounder in a cast iron. If your feelin froggy you may want to jump up a bit to 6,000 for a Wild Imports

Remember If you want a Full Scale Queen Ann pattern.,South Bend is about it., Personally I have alot of Custom made barrels ., due to Cost., shipping and specific purpose for our property. I cant do a garrison of full scale Queen ann from South Bend., sounds pretty cool tho dont it? If you were allotted 250,000.00 for yard ornaments., South bend would be the place to start.

[Pegleg Pete]

I've been trying to access Hern's site for the better part of 2 months. My browser sits there for the longest time, and then finally errors out. The site was usually slow to load in the first place, but I never had it abort in the past.

Maybe it's just my slow modem connection. Anyone know if they are still in business?

They had a nice little English barrel I had my eye on. It's been so long since I've gotten to the site, I can't even recall what model it was.

HarborMaster, didn't you get your barrels from Hern? Or was that GreyStar?

Brad aka Pegleg Pete

[MorganTyre]

I just went to the hern site. Very fast loading, no problems. Saw they now sell a full scale english swivel gun 1750-1815 . Very cool looking gun. At only $426 it looks like a great first buy. Anyone else have any opinion on the matter?

[HarborMaster]

Pegleg Pete ., Hern is up and running I was just there.,Whaammm! instant., I am on comcast cable tho.,anyway their site is functioning as normal. I have both sir.,I have 2 - 1/3 6pounders from Grey Star., they are fun during Bar B Ques., then I have 2 - 3" ordinance rifles from Hern Iron Works., these are for bigger Bar B Ques .,Then I have a few Bronze mortars and signal cannons from other makers as well as an old english swivel from a local castor many years ago in Stainless .,as well as a fellow cannoneer/machinist in idaho custom building 4 little cannons for me from stainless at approx 4" x 26" for our Scuba vessel.

I do wish I had those 2/3 scale 6 pounders and I dont I have too much to get any more., I cant justify it to the family and shipping is killing me., however with what I have learned in all of this.,that choice could really be the most bang for the least buck in something pretty big that you can be proud of.., yea I wish I had a pair., and by the way ., think in pairs., pairs are always better in cannons.., A port and starboard gun if you will lets them know your havin a cannon aint just a fluke but you actually went out of your way to show'em a good time !!

[Pegleg Pete]

Hmm, thanks for the feedback guys. Still no luck. I thought maybe my old link was out of date, so I follewed the one you posted here. Nope. Ok, so maybe it's my browser...so I tried anther...nope. Nada. If I let it sit long enough I get "“http://www.hernironworks.com/” could not be opened because the server stopped responding."

Guess I'll have to wait 'til I get to work and sneak on there. Dang. Now that I know I can't check it out, I REAAALLLLYYYYY want to.

HarborMaster, I've seen pics of your line 'o guns on the muzzleloading forum. Very nice collection, sir!

Cheers!

Brad aka Pegleg Pete

[Rats]

So after looking at the websits, it seems most everything is past out timeperiod???

Also, don't some of the naval guns look..... Small??

Rats

[Story]

For those having trouble accessing the Hern catalog pages, try copying this address directly into your browser

http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html

NOTE: The price for the swivel gun drops from $426 to $380 if you order two or more. The 1700s Howitzer (looks like a copy of the RevWar King howitzer) drops from $631 to $548.

So, for all you folk that live within a day's drive of each other might want to consider a 'group buy'.

As a template for early period ordnance, check out this article on a BREECHLOADING iron swivel gun

http://www.melfisher.org/swivelgun.htm

Or this Spanish example

17th CENTURY SPANISH DECK-GUN/SWIVEL GUN, ca. 1620: In overall very fine untouched condition. Heavy Bronze barrel with with rear sighting plane, a raised rectangular touch-hole and numerous turnings at the muzzle, breech and mid-section. Two trunions pins with large swivel yolk, for attachment to a boat's side-rail. The breech with a hollow extended cabascle for a wooden handle. The muzzle with a flared decorative mouth and large bore 100+ caliber. In overall very fine condition with a pleasing untouched age patina throughout. Overall length 42". Approximate weight 75 lbs. An orginal Spanish Deck gun from the Early to mid Seventeenth century.

http://www.ambroseantiques.com/cannons/swivelgun.htm

[Captain Jim]

Yes most are past our time period. Wild Imports has that bronze swivel reputed to be a copy from Roberts' Royal Fortune (ex. Onslow.) After checking their provenance on that claim, it would be in period. It's a dandy looking cannon anyway, but the price has just gone up about $300 since the last time I looked.

[Pegleg Pete]

For those having trouble accessing the Hern catalog pages, try copying this address directly into your browser

http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html

Nope, no luck. Thanks for trying, though. When I got to work, it loaded in a flash. No luck at home on the ol' dial-up, though.

I didn't have much time to look at work, but that English swivel gun looks like a nice little barrel to mount on a naval carriage. Glad to see the site is still around. One of these days, I may just have to give in to the bug.

Brad aka Pegleg Pete

[Story]

Yes most are past our time period. Wild Imports has that bronze swivel reputed to be a copy from Roberts' Royal Fortune (ex. Onslow.) After checking their provenance on that claim, it would be in period. It's a dandy looking cannon anyway, but the price has just gone up about $300 since the last time I looked.

Try $450 since last summer

http://www.wildimports.com/1720_swivel_cannon.htm

The deck gun looks ok, but it's $5k

http://www.wildimports.com/3_british_naval_cannon.htm

Only #575 for a bronze swivel and $950 for a bronze howitzer

http://www.cannon-mania.com/barrels-bronze.htm

Incidentally, this is what the howitzer looks like when mounted on a field carraige

http://www.fortedwards.org/braddock/july16...17/howitzer.jpg

And the navy's cheat sheet for cannon terminology

http://www.history.navy.mil/cannons/cannons55.html

[HarborMaster]

I would very much recommend you do not deal with Cannon-Mania. His communication skills are lacking and many have not recieved their goods., and yes I can back this claim. There has been extensive discussion on this one at Greybeard Outdoors Cannon and Mortar forums.

Better to keep yer money and save it for a cannon you will receive.

Here ..., fine., go ahead take my hard earned research and collection of links and black powder friends.

Grey Star

Jefferson Armory

Kansas Cannon Works

Hern Iron Works

Wild Imports

Cannons Online

The Canadian Cannon Company

Brooks USA

Cannon Mikes

Steen Cannons

Cannon LTD

South Bend Replicas

Paulson Brothers Ordinance Corporation

Beaufort Naval Armorers

Fire and Iron

Missouri Cannon Works

Neff Cannons

G. Gedney Godwin

Clover Machine

Then of course there is the many un advertised and countless machinists who enjoy a new project or challenge. I hope you enjoy these links as much as I do., if your serious about a cannon.,one of these vendors is sure to provide you with years of enjoyment.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Wow...

Thanks for the List Harbormaster. I can only imagine how long you had to wade through the net to gleen those gems.

I took a cursory look through them, and will will go back through them at my leisure...

It seems that most of the cannon makers target the Civil War market (makes sense really) first, and the Rev War market second.

For ships main guns for GAoP period (we will say 1670-1730)

I found

http://www.cannonltd.com/ordering.htm

But which ones I wonder?

and

http://www.specialtymile.com/southbendrepl...licas/page2.htm

This seems right up our alley!

Others say they can make anything... just ask.

Greg aka GoF

[HarborMaster]

Your Welcome sir ! There is definitely alot to drum thru ., pretty neat stuff. For any one interested in Cannon-Mania., here is the link to the forum topic at Greybeard Outdoor Concerning David Ross of Cannon Mania and the business practice of his their in. You may really want to read it before any of you buy frm him., truly Buyer beware. Cheers to all and Good Luck in your Black-Powder endeavors ....., Its truly a BLAST

[kerrystagmer]

Cannons LTD used to be right here in town a few years back. They were certainly making quite a few guns and I've never heard a complaint. I also knew the guys at the machine shop where they were bored out, they had nothing negative to say so I imagine they are ok to deal with.

[Rateye]

This does seem right up our alley!

http://www.specialtymile.com/southbendrepl...licas/page2.htm

However, I just called and they're asking $7,830.00 for a shooter barrel without the carriage.

Let the Fred and Barney schemes begin!!

Rats

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I hear they are cheaper by the dozen....

Greg

[Rats]

Wonder how much I can get for a slightly used spleen?

Rats

BTW: I'm not talking bout me own, mind you!

[HarborMaster]

Full Scale is alot more expensive ., and ALOT harder to move.,just plain impractical. The sub scale cannons are really great., after all most tall ships nowadays arent using 6800 pound constitution cannons on board ., they are using something like the HERN IRON WORKS English swivel in a naval carriage or 1/2 scale 1841 6 pounders. or perhaps full scale HERN IRON WORKS carronades.

Here look at these numbers on HERNS 1841 6 pounder :

Scale -- Full ; Bore -- 3 1/2 ; Length -- 65 1/2 ; Weight -- 850 ; Trunnion Diameter -- 3 5/8

Scale -- 2/3 ; Bore -- 2 1/4 ; Length -- 43 1/2 ; Weight -- 250 ; Trunnion Diameter -- 2 3/4

on a 43 inch barrel you lose 600 pounds !!! and can now afford a dozen !

Not too many ships require fortress garrison guns. One of you fellows planning on building your rendition of Spains 1rst rate ship of the line ..., 94 gun El Philipe ? with those spanish guns?

[MorganTyre]

The Hern site specifies (somewhere) that these guns are for looks only and shouldn't be fired. Of course this is a liability disclaimer and I would expect as much. However, has anyone heard any stories of problems firing the hern guns?

[HarborMaster]

Yes this is a liability issue and I have signed papers for 4 differant makers in 3 years time. You cant blame them., I wouldnt., No I have never heard anything but good about Hern., and I am very happy with my twins they built for me.

[Rusty Barrels]

I'm still workin on my 2/3 scale 1841 6 pounder from Hern so I have not fired it yet, after a thorough inspection of the barrel I'm pretty sure I won't blow myself up. Harbormaster is right about the disclaimers, If you look deeper you'll find they all have them. The only drawback to my gun is it's projected weight in naval truck form, is over 300 hundred pounds! I sometimes wish I got a swivel gun instead.