Eye Glasses during the GAoP

[Mission]

I believe that particular part was written in the early 1650s.

Here's the Wiki bio on Jean de Thevenot.

While it affirms the use of sunglasses, there are a couple of things to take into consideration: 1) It refers specifically to Malta, which may mean it was not geographically widespread. 2) He also attributes the behavior to "Commanders and Knights" and not common folk, and 3) He casts aspersions on the behavior, believing it may do the opposite of what's intended.

Say, does someone have a reference for this Syphilis/tinted glasses thing? I have read at least twenty period books on medicine and a dozen or more period sailors accounts and never yet come across a reference to this.

[jendobyns]

Thanks for the info on Thevenot.

I can't tell you the original sources regarding the colored lenses and different diseases, but iirc that research, which is OOP for this forum, was "published" on the Revlist (yahoo group) over a decade ago (between 10 and 13 years?). I have, since then, seen accounts that back up the "sunglasses" part, but since the disease part beyond migraines didn't interest me, I didn't take notes. Sorry. There are newspaper advertisements for glasses of various types in the newspapers of the time, too. If you have access to the PA Gazette, it could be a starting point. As would the Revlist group.

There was a wonderful pair of tortoise shell spectacles with dark green lenses on display at the Smithsonian years ago. They (the Smithsonian) might also have information for you.

Good luck!

Jen

I believe that particular part was written in the early 1650s.

Here's the Wiki bio on Jean de Thevenot.

While it affirms the use of sunglasses, there are a couple of things to take into consideration: 1) It refers specifically to Malta, which may mean it was not geographically widespread. 2) He also attributes the behavior to "Commanders and Knights" and not common folk, and 3) He casts aspersions on the behavior, believing it may do the opposite of what's intended.

Say, does someone have a reference for this Syphilis/tinted glasses thing? I have read at least twenty period books on medicine and a dozen or more period sailors accounts and never yet come across a reference to this.

[Grymm]

http://www.museumofvision.org/exhibitions/?key=44&subkey=4&relkey=35

There's a wee clicky link on the LH side to take you to the 18thC collection, This one pair is tagged as being 1700

http://www.antiquespectacles.com/ Has some pretties too.

The nose bridge specs can have cords or threads looped over the ears to keep them on, also means that they are much less likely fall off when looking down or when you turn violently.

From the Optometrists College website in the musEYEum section http://www.college-optometrists.org/en/knowledge-centre/museyeum/index.cfm

The writings of de Valdes

In 1623 the Spanish writer B. Daza de Valdes produced a semi-fictional pamphlet with the somewhat lengthy title: Vso de los antojos para todo genero de vistas: en que se ensena a conocer los grados que a cada vno le faltan de su vista, y los que tienen qualesquier antojos. Y assi mismo a que tiempo se an de vsar, y como se pediran en ausencia, con otros auisos importantes, a la vtilidad y conseruacion de la vista. In this work he describes a user of spectacles in Seville, whom he names Marcel, complaining that his leather spectacles were of clumsy manufacture and kept falling off. As a result Marcel aspired to upgrade to a silver pair though, in fact, a well-made leather pair would have stayed on the nose better due to its greater flexibility and lighter weight. A spectacle maker informed Marcel of this; the set-piece conversation, if it can be believed, is interesting evidence of a dialogue between manufacturer and customer. A passing reference is made to looping the spectacles over the ears. This Marcel rejects on account of it looking less smart and being associated with older people. It seems he would rather break more pairs than benefit from the convenience of ear loops; perhaps the spectacle makers were happy to acquiesce in this if it meant a higher demand for new pairs?

From the same site re green tinted specs

Samuel Pepys

The great diarist Samuel Pepys (1633-1703) purchased a pair of spectacles with green lenses from the respected and 'great' spectacle maker John Turlington in December 1666 in the hope that the tint might relieve the soreness of his eyes caused, so he believed, by labouring under candlelight. They may have looked a little like this pair with a leather frame. Turlington was Master of the Spectacle Makers Company at the time. Dating these spectacles is problematic. Whilst they are perhaps most likely to be from the second half of the century, stylistically they could date from as early as 1600 which would make them the oldest pair in the museum collection.

Pepys was a regular drinking partner of Sir Isaac Newton, who discovered the colour spectrum and may possibly have discussed optics with him. Aids to vision had many uses as one entry from his diary of May 1667 will show: I did entertain myself with my perspective glass up and down the church, by which I had the great pleasure of seeing and gazing a great many very fine women; and what with that and sleeping, I passed away the time till sermon was done.

There is also a section on specs with arms which throws a few early possibles into the mix.

[Mission]

I found this in Elizabeth Bennion's, Antique Medical Instruments:

This suggests that eyeglasses with some way to attach them to the wearer's head existed in 1700. (Quick, someone over there go check the British Optical Ass'n Library for verification.) I do wish we knew the dates of each of those.

Also, according to Bennion, eye glasses and pince nez glasses were very popular and common and could be fairly cheaply purchased.

My link to the above photo got broken somehow, so I fixed it. Image 359, with sidepieces is dated to 1700 like Grymm's pair. So unless both sources are wrong, they clearly existed at that time.

[Mission]

My thought on whether or not to wear glasses is that most common citizens would not be able to afford them so I don't wear them (my long range glasses).

This is just on of several comments about this question of who would have spectacles during period. I happened to be skimming through the link to the fascinating Museum of Vision provided by Grymm and I noticed this statement:

"By 1700, the middle and lower classes were wearing spectacles mounted in various simple materials, while the upper classes favored more genteel hand held spectacles with frames of gold and silver."

[Capt. Sterling]

Wow Mission, if ye could find a primary source for the sidebars that would be grand and very helpful to a lot of folks.

[Mission]

All I've seen is those glasses from Bennion's book which reference the British Optical Association Library. I've only seen passing references in period sources to glasses and spectacles; nothing that describes the glasses themselves.

[Capt. Sterling]

Hmmm Grymm are ye sure about that brass set with the case? I'm reading C. 1830

http://www.museumofvision.org/collection/artifacts?accession=1986.000.00880

[Captain Jim]

El Greco, 1600. Metal frames, ribbons around ears. From here, did it really take 120 years to put temples on?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Captain Jim

[IvanHenry]

Nice find!

[Jib]

I was just reading something about Newton and it suggested that he constructed a set of glasses with colored lens to see light break into the spectrum. I believe it was gold colored lens and the wearer saw everything with a blue haze.

[landlubbersanonymous]

Have not done business here but the product looks interesting for a late impression.

http://www.nehelenia...sunglasses.html

and at bottom of page...

http://home.comcast....ge/MainMisc.htm

Was thinking of converting a cheap modern mfg reading set to appear like older pair. I suppose these could be converted as well. (To replicate 17th century round frames sans the arms.) We'll post pics if that comes to fruition.

Edited March 22, 2012 by landlubbersanonymous

[Grymm]

Hmmm Grymm are ye sure about that brass set with the case? I'm reading C. 1830

http://www.museumofv...=1986.000.00880

Yeah, serves me right for believing one set of blurb and not double checking. I've been doing a bit more swotting up on period specs and the sliding arm is v late 18thC and the oval lenses put them into the 19thC....bugger!

More sites more info

http://www.college-optometrists.org/ go to knowledge centre then musEYEum in the drop down.

http://​www.antiquespectacles.com/

Edited March 24, 2012 by Grymm

[Grymm]

It really doesn't want to make antiquespecs' a link, tried 3 times to fix it so here goes again

http://www.antiquespectacles.com/

[Grymm]

Reasonable repros by'ere http://www.periodglasses.com/order%20form.html

Styles 2,4 & 5, all need thread loops to hold them on if you need them for general wear rather than peering sagely at books =o)

Trevor is a nice chap and knows his stuff, he also has a stock of original frames for reglazing mostly 19thC and early 20thC but the occasional 18thC pair as well.

Give him a call but remember the +4(east coast)-+8(west coast)hr time differences if phoning from Stateside.

[landlubbersanonymous]

Grymm - Glad to see someone out there is making an attempt at accurate, period glasses. Although the prices are making me Scottish nose hairs curl.

[IvanHenry]

Here is a painting of Francisco Gómez de Quevedo y Santibáñez Villegas

14 September 1580

Madrid, Spain

To add to the collection...

[Swashbuckler 1700]

interesting stuff from from Johnson's book:

" I had an Account given me of one of these merry Tryals, and as it appeared diverting, I shall give the Readers a short Account of it.

The Court and Criminals being both appointed, as also Council to plead, the Judge got up in a Tree, and had a dirty Taurpaulin hung over his Shoulders; this was done by Way of Robe, with a Thrum Cap on his Head, and a large Pair of Spectacles upon his Nose: Thus equipp'd, he settled himself in his Place, and abundance of Officers attending him below, with Crows, Handspikes, &c. instead of Wands, Tipstaves, and such like. "

that will make me think were glasses so expensive...

This is picture from late 17th century: man selling glasses

Edited April 8, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Dirigoboy]

Located in Waterville, Maine, you could always peruse the wares of Ed Welch's Antique Vintage Eyeglasses. He carries original 18th century specs. You could email him with your wants here; information@eyeglasseswarehouse.com

[Mission]

These posts are from the thread "But I stole 'em from a...", starting with this post. I was going to comment on them there, but I think it makes more sense to answer it here.

Er.... ain't them blue tinted glasses s'posed ta be a treatment fer Syphalis?

I do believe so... as I believe it causes sensitivity to light...

Know anyone who does 18th C. Physician?

I have never seen proof for any such thing for GAoP thus far. (If I do, I will be sure to post it.) I did find something about a commanders and knights wearing green tints for sun glasses in Malta (and no where else yet); the original quote for that can be found here. Of course, I am reading medical texts and this may well be an individual response. Still, you would think with all the various texts on syphilis/lues venerea that someone would have mentioned this if it were common.

Keep in mind that we haven't conclusively proven there were glasses with arms around during period at this point. The only thing suggesting there were any glasses with arms was that bit I pulled from Elisabeth Bennion's book and I can't back it up.

[William Brand]

I just found another eyeglass provider. Sorry if it was mentioned before now.

http://www.reenactors-shop.de/product_info.php?info=p2157_Medieval-Spectacle-Frame.html

[Grymm]

http://www.bikkelenbeen.com/nl/producten/Categorie/Brilmonturen+I/Veerbril+blond+hoorn/?artikelnummer=011&pagina=1

Makers of horn spec frames, technically they's muddyevil but.......

Edited April 23, 2012 by Grymm

[Capt. Sterling]

Er.... ain't them blue tinted glasses s'posed ta be a treatment fer Syphalis?

I have never seen proof for any such thing for GAoP thus far. (If I do, I will be sure to post it.) I did find something about a commanders and knights wearing green tints for sun glasses in Malta (and no where else yet); the original quote for that can be found here. Of course, I am reading medical texts and this may well be an individual response. Still, you would think with all the various texts on syphilis/lues venerea that someone would have mentioned this if it were common.

Hmmm the idea of blue tinted lenses as a treatment for STDs seems to have been something that comes up during the Victorian era... IF I had more time I could get ye some info from a grand debate on another board that took place several years back...but... any how, fwiw didn't have anything from our time frame posted there....

[Capt. Sterling]

Hope this isn't a double posting, but found this and wanted to get it down before I lost it...at work so time is limited...

"A brief aside - The Wormleighton Evidence

However, latest research by the BOA Museum suggests that sides may have existed before the traditionally accepted date...indeed possibly as early as the 1680s.

It all depends on how you interpret a figurative sculpture of a man wearing spectacles (apparently with sides!) from the carved oak screen now to be found at St Peter's Church, Wormleighton, on the Warwickshire/Oxfordshire border.

The earliest parts of the church date from 1150 but when staff of the BOA Museum first paid attention to this carving back in the 1950s the screen was thought to have been taken from the Spencer Mansion in the village of Wormleighton, built in the reign of Henry VIII (1509-1547) which would make it early 16th century, some two hundred years before sides were believed to have been invented. It seemed an unlikely scenario. For various reasons we now think that the screen was originally in Southam Parish Church but was removed for safe-keeping during the Civil War. After the war the screen was included for a short period in the decorative scheme of the Star Chamber in the Manor House. We think that the be-spectacled man is a later addition to this screen, added circa 1685 when the screen was reassembled at Wormleighton Church and reduced in size. This seems much more credible and would still make it the earliest representation of spectacle sides.

The 'sides' appear to pass at a rigid right angle from the lugs of the spectacle front. Unfortunately their terminals are concealed by the flowing locks of hair. We may never be sure if this is what we think it might be. The carving's Tudor-style hat is probably a red herring. One assumes that the artist had added spectacles with sides anachronistically, but the possibility of folk memory playing some part cannot be dismissed altogether. At least the available evidence entitles us to suggest, cautiously, that the first development of spectacle sides is possibly English and possibly from the last quarter of the seventeenth century."

Found here: http://www.college-optometrists.org/en/knowledge-centre/museyeum/online_exhibitions/spectacles/side.cfm

Scroll down to see the photos, sorry no time to transfer them here yet...

[landlubbersanonymous]

Hope this isn't a double posting, but found this and wanted to get it down before I lost it...at work so time is limited...

Found here: http://www.college-o...tacles/side.cfm

Scroll down to see the photos, sorry no time to transfer them here yet...

Thanks Capt. Good timing too. We were just having some dialog about this.