Pockets and Cuffs??

[kass]

That's how I do the cuffs too, Pat. I just use more buttons.

I never saw the pics of you wearing it before. It looks great!

[Rateye]

Perfect jack my friend!

Length is about what I was planning also

Was that one of the grey blankets from sportsman's warehouse?

That's one of the pieces I'm cutting right now!!

So basically leave some extra on the seam and turn it into a cuff?

How many buttons would you suggest dear Kass?

Now what are the chances a short jacket like Patty is wearing might have a folded back cuff? Or that a frock might have been cut short?

Just wondering

Rats

BTW: What kind of shoes are you sporting in those pics???

[Patrick Hand]

The first coat that I made had tight turned back cuffs, I just made the sleeves longer.... but after some discussions in one of the other threads here, I decided to make the mariner cuffs. There isn't realy any extra cloth at the cuff, they just fold over the other side....

BTW: What kind of shoes are you sporting in those pics???

Welllll..... they are an old worn out pair of Civil War Brogans that I cut down.......

But I ordered a new pair of shoes (and buckles) today from Fugawee....

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Here is another question for ya Kass (or anyone else).

When do we start seeing fold down collars as a common item?

It seems that 95% of pirate re-enactors are wearing a "poet" style shirt with a fold down collar.

Greg

[Capt Thighbiter]

Did you not read my first post, Captain Thighbiter? I was telling Rats about how many different and varied cuff and pocket treatments there were in this period. There certainly were great variations in fashionable(and non-fashionable) clothing. But it is a definable quantity. For example, we know that curved fronts on the Frock Coat (that we see on F&I and Rev War coats) didn't come around until the 1720s. And we almost never see a collar on a frock coat in the GAoP. Collars come around early mid-century and then get larger and larger until they stand up on their own at the end of the 18th century. There are definitely things we can track and their uses have distinct beginnings and endings.

We have a great deal of information from this period -- extant garments, detailed paintings, tailors' pattern books -- so we have more than just a few crude woodcuts to go on. Just because Foxe only posted three here doesn't mean that's all there is. To assume so would be rather naive.

Kass, aye naive and un-learned I be. Thats why I posted.

[kass]

When do we start seeing fold down collars as a common item?

It seems that 95% of pirate re-enactors are wearing a "poet" style shirt with a fold down collar. 

Greg

Captain Thighbiter,

We all start out naive. No one springs full-formed from the head of Zeus, after all (except perhaps for Mr. Foxe!).

I hope I helped clear up some thoughts you were having about the GAoP sources.

Greg,

We don't see fold down collars in the GAoP. But there's a reason for that. In this time period, collars were usually pulled tall, folded in half, and held high with a cravat of some sort. From the best-dressed captains and noblemen to the lowest half-clothed sea dogs, we rarely see a man without some kind of neck cloth tied around his throat.

So it's not that shirts didn't have collars. It's that you can't see them. Band-collar shirts may have persisted from the 16th and early 17th century (when they were short, a mere base for the attachment of a ruff or falling band). But by the end of the 17th century, we're seeing collars peeping out from above neck cloths. Some even show their foldovers.

There are undoubtedly some pictures of lower class seamen where you can't even see a shirt. And it is certainly possible that they skipped this layer. But that wouldn't have been common.

What we don't see is seamen (or any men) wearing their shirts open in front with the collar pulled wide. The only incidence of a shirt worn open that I can think of, in fact, is the pictures of Bonny and Read. And the reason Bonny and Read are depicted in this way was to show their breasts, a bit of titilation for the purchasers of the book or print in which they were featured. There's no reason to think Bonny and Read went around with their shirts undone. Matter of fact, we have read over and over again that Bonny and Read were indistinguishable from men (which would imply they weren't showing their breasts for all the world to see).

So do up those collars, lads!

Now, the shoulder yokes we see on the so called "poet shirts" are right out. They're an invention of the Ren Faires.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Do we know what the name of the 1709 DUtch picture and who the artist is? I would love to see it in color.

Greg

Now after 5 years of waiting that possible

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Matthijs-Naiveu/The-Cloth-Shop-1709.html

I have seen the better picture in one book and the coat is dark blue and it has a cloth faced buttons....