Torture and Punishment

[Mission]

Ah, the ballast. I have never heard of such a punishment, but here's some stuff about the ballast. The first is from Stephen Bown's book Scurvy: How a Surgeon, a Mariner, and a Gentleman Solved the Greatest Medieval Mystery of the Age of Sail. The second two are from W.R. Thrower's book Life at Sea in the Age of Sail (which I admit is not very well documented, but which is extraordinarily tempting to use because it's so graphic)...

“The ships always leaked, and pumps could never keep the water out entirely, so the ballast of gravel or sand became incredibly putrid. Ventilation was poor and the bilge gases so noxious that is was extremely hazardous for carpenters to go below to work in the hold. The stench was unbearable and occasionally men suffocated from inhaling the fumes.” (Bown, p. 15)

"The normal place for voiding in a ship was called the heads; this was in the bows where ‘seats of convenience’, consisting of spaced planks, were provided. The seats on one side were used by the officers and those on the other side by the crew. But it was only possible to use them in fine weather; when the weather was bad – well, you can judge. The effect of this was that the bilges of those sailing ships always contained plenty of human excrement, which was just one more thing that made them, and the whole ship too, foul and smelly. The foul bilge water was to some extent soaked up by any ballast, such as gravel, that the ship was carrying, thus spoiling all attempts to sweeten the hold.” (Thrower, Sea, p. 82)

“In an attempt to concentrate and localize the sea water which was always getting in, most ships had a place called a ‘well.’ This as its name suggests, was a sump in the lowest part of the hold kept clear of ballast or cargo and where the pumps were connected. The wells had dangers of their own due to the accumulation of noxious gases (methane and sulphuretted hydrogen) which sometimes asphyxiated men working in them to clear pump inlets or on some similar job. In naval vessels there was a standing warning about going down a well without first lowering a lighted lanthorns. Another cause of persistent dampness was the constant washing down especially in naval ships, where there was more over-crowding and dirt than in merchantmen.” (Thrower, Sea, p. 36)

[captscurvy_nc]

a cat o' nine tails. this is a whip-like weapon that had nine slashed wihipps on it.

The best part of this is the condemed had to make the whip himself by unwinding the rope into the nine pieces and knotting the ends. So not only are you beaten but you had to make the weapon that did the damage

[Tartan Jack]

Let's start a round of "What do you do with a drunken sailor?"

Mark

"Drunken Sailor"

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus:]

Way hay and up she rises

Way hay and up she rises

Way hay and up she rises

Earl-eye in the morning

Shave his belly with a rusty razor,

Shave his belly with a rusty razor,

Shave his belly with a rusty razor,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter,

Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter,

Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

Put him the back of the paddy wagon,

Put him the back of the paddy wagon,

Put him the back of the paddy wagon,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober,

Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober,

Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

What do you do with a drunken sailor,

Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

(From http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/greatbigsea/drunkensailor.html )

Plus:

1. Put him in the long boat till he's sober,

2. Keep him there and make 'im bale 'er.

3. Shave his belly with a rusty razor.

4. Put him in bed with the captain's daughter.

http://www.thebards.net/music/lyrics/What_Do_With_Drunken_Sailor.shtml

Edited April 6, 2010 by Tartan Jack

[captscurvy_nc]

wasn't there a line about "have you ever seen the captains daughter?

Edited April 6, 2010 by captscurvy_nc

[Tartan Jack]

Probably.

There are many, many verses and variations of them.

[Mission]

We're getting off topic...Oh, wait, I see! The punishment is imagining you guys singing! Very clever.

[Tartan Jack]

No.

Relevant in how the various details of that song reflect punishments used by/on sailors aboard nautical craft, inc. "pranks" played by sailors on one another.

[Mission]

I don't think you could actually use that as evidence that such things actually happened. The lyrics could have just been something that amused the sailors which happened to fit the tempo of that song. Think about the lovely camp/folk song "Great Green Gobs of Greasy Grimy Gopher Guts." I don't know about any of the camps you guys attended, but those things were never on the menu of the places I went. (The song was, just not the contents.)

[Admiral Kilo]

I confess, I only glanced over the previous posts, but I thought I would share that I read somewhere that pirates rarely used torture as punishments. When punishments were used it was a bit more reasonable, but many pirate crews became pirate crews having mutinied against a navy fleet. The reasons being the low pay, unfair treatment, torture methods/punishments used, etc. All-in-all, life was somewhat crappy. So, they mutiny and become a democracy, making things fair and everything divided evenly so no man is making practically no profit while the higher-ups get rich.

[Daniel]

I confess, I only glanced over the previous posts, but I thought I would share that I read somewhere that pirates rarely used torture as punishments. When punishments were used it was a bit more reasonable,

Depends on who was the victim. You're right that pirates very rarely punished their own crew with flogging or other tortures. But they tortured prisoners all the time. The Port Royal and Tortugfa buccaneers were particularly notorious for torturing prisoners. It wasn't even that remarkable by the standards of the time; Thirty Years' War mercenaries had routinely done the same nasty stuff to anyone unlucky enough to fall into their hands.

but many pirate crews became pirate crews having mutinied against a navy fleet.

There's where you're mistaken. Not a single pirate crew is known to have got its start by mutinying against a naval captain (much less a whole fleet). Several pirates did start out as mutineers - notably Every, Lowther, Culliford, Fly, and Gow - but all these mutinies occurred on merchant or privateer vessels, not navy ships. The reason is pretty clear: private ship owners kept crews small, so you only needed to recruit a few followers to organize a successful mutiny. Nut navy ships had huge crews, which required a large force to overcome, and every man you brought into the plot was one more potential informer. Plus, navy ships were patrolled by large forces of rigidly disciplined marines, a major impediment to mutiny. On the rare occasions that Royal Navy ships did mutiny, it was often a bloodless affair, with the crew essentially going on strike rather than physically attacking their officers, and they were usually just demanding back pay or better rations rather than seizing the ship for piratical purposes.

Of course, some navy sailors did become pirates, but only after deserting or simply being paid off and discharged, not because of a mutiny.

[Captain Frankie]

How about Running the Gauntlet (notably used in the Royal Navy as a punishment for minor theft)...

The condemned was prevented from rushing by the master-at-arms with a cutlass and pushed forward by a corporal, while being beaten with rope yarns that were plaited into so-called "knittles" (a word for a string; possibly sound-associated with nettles), which looked like smaller, improvised versions of the cat o' nine tails . The condemned could also receive a dozen lashes from the cat o' nine tails beforehand, so that blows received while running the gauntlet would aggravate the lacerations on his back.

An example (alas, not from the right period):

Edited June 20, 2010 by Captain Frankie

[Gumbatz]

wasn't there a line about "have you ever seen the captains daughter?

That would be a Thighbiter lyric, I do believe? Captain?

[Capt Thighbiter]

wasn't there a line about "have you ever seen the captains daughter?

That would be a Thighbiter lyric, I do believe? Captain?

Ah, Guvnah, good to hear from ye again. Alas, while we use the lyric, tis not of our own creation. I believe this is a 'rennfaire' added lyric, not part of the traditional lyrics for the tune. But who knows. "Drunken Sailor" has been around a long time, being at the height of it's popularity around 1710 or so. In the interim period, there is room for almost anything to have been sung to it.

[Fox]

...But who knows. "Drunken Sailor" has been around a long time, being at the height of it's popularity around 1710 or so...

This being Twill, I feel justified in asking whether there's any evidence of the song that early?

[Admiral Kilo]

Ok, I was misinformed about mutinies, but I double checked what I'm about to say this time.

What Do You Do With A Drunken Sailor was first reproduced in printed form in 1824-25, according to Wikipedia, Songfacts, and a few other sites, but I can't find anything online about the book called "Cole's Selection of Favourite Cotillions" which is what the sites say it was published in. Various sites agree that it is much older than it's printed form and according to song facts it was the only song the Royal Navy allowed it's crewmembers to sing while on board. The line "Wey, hey, up she rises" comes from raising the sail and/or hoisting the anchor.

[Capt Thighbiter]

Foxe, I will take a look see, can't remember just where I read that. This being Twill, you are justified in asking the question.