Archers in the Golden Age

[Cap'n Coyote]

I've run across several references to archers on ships adding to the general mayhem, but how common was it really?

What kind of bows were in use? Longbows? Shortbows? Recurves? Even crossbows were available at that time.

[Daniel]

I don't know of any use of archery in the Golden Age.

I do recall that Francis Drake's men used longbows during their raids in the area of Nombre de Dios and Puerto Bello. The longbow had apparently passed out of use in the English army by that time (the last battlefield won by the longbow was Flodden in 1513), but still saw some use amongst sea-rovers like Drake's. The longbow was a devastating weapon, but was hampered somewhat by the heavy tropical rains; wet bowstrings do not function well.

I believe that the Barbary corsairs used some archery in the 16th and 17th centuries, as did their Christian opponents the Knights of Malta. I don't recall what kind of bows these were, though.

Bows would have been logical weapons for pirates to use: they're cheaper and easier to make than guns, they require no exhaustible gunpowder or fuse, and their ammunition, unlike that of guns, is often recoverable, and at the time they had a much faster rate of fire. Their major drawbacks were that they were less effective against armor than muskets were (not usually an issue at sea), and they required much more strength and training than muskets. But perhaps the most important fact is that a weapon that goes whissss-thock is not as psychologically intimidating as a weapon that goes BOOOMMMMM! Pirates often lived by intimidation as much as by combat; most of their victims did not resist because they were cowed by the fear the pirates generated.

[capnwilliam]

Archery pretty much passed from the European scene by about 1600. It was year right about that point that the English Parliament ordered the militia units to turn their long and cross bows in for muskets and calivers.

As Daniel said, the early firearms' advantage over bows was largely psychological, and the shrotened training period. These early firearms also, like bows, didn't do well in heavy rain!

Capt. William

[Submarine Privateer]

I do recall that Francis Drake's men used longbows during their raids in the area of Nombre de Dios and Puerto Bello.

Hi Daniel, extremely interesting post, and very cool info. I just might do a 16th century pirate impression that includes a longbow!!!! Where did you get the info on Drake's use of the longbow? I would like to read that book!!! Thanks!!!

Eric :)

[El Pirata]

I'm not disputing the information only the source of the information. I have studied Drake's attacks on Nombre de Dios in 1572/3 extensively and no where was it mentioned in the numerous sources I have read anything about using bows of any kind. It would seem logical that when he and a band of pirates snuck into the town of Nombre de Dios to the treasure vault that they would have used some stealth weapons such as bows but again, I have not read anything about the use of bows. His attack on Panama Viejo in 1595 was mainly a flop and again nothing weas mentioned about bows.

[Daniel]

I believe I read about Drake's bowmen first in David Cordingly's Under the Black Flag, but I don't have it ready to hand.

However, my local library has a copy of John Sugden, Sir Francis Drake, New York: Henry Holt & Co., 1990, and on page 55-56 it describes the weapons handout in Drake's expedition right before the Nombre de Dios raid of 1572. "He [Drake] got his assault force to an island at Cativas, where each man was issued a principal tool or weapon. There were six shields, twelve pikes, six firepikes which could also act as torches, twenty-four arquebuses, sixteen bows, six spears, two drums, and two trumpets."

Apparently some of the "bows" referred to may have been crossbows rather than longbows, because on page 57 Sugden says that "even the strings to their crossbows were too wet to be efficient." But I am pretty sure I recall Cordingly referring specifically to longbows being carried by Drake's men.

Sugden gives his source for this as an account written about 1592 by Philip Nichols, the Rector of Mylor, who compiled it from lost eyewitness reports. This account was published in 1626 under the title Sir Francis Drake Revived.

[Daniel]

OK, I'm back home and have access to Cordingly. My memory was wrong; Cordingly talks about bows and arrows, but I see no reference specifically to longbows.

Page 27, describing the 1572 Nombre de Dios raid: "When the rain ceased, many of Drake's men found that their guns and bows were useless because powder, matches, and bowstrings were soaked."

Page 30, describing the attack on the treasure ship Cacafuego in 1579: "The first bombardment from her guns...was followed by a withering fire of arrows and musket shot."

I assume at least some of these were ordinary longbows and not crossbows, because crossbow projectiles are normally called bolts or quarrels, not arrows.

[Submarine Privateer]

Thanks for the info Daniel, I'll be picking Cordingly's book up real quick. Thanks again!!!!

Eric :)

[El Pirata]

SHitballs. I never read those accounts. Most of the stuff I read on drake was really vague but I will be lookin to borrow them from the library for a longer then normal visit to me.

[capnwilliam]

Longbows WERE of course used heavily aboard ships in the MID-16th century. The MARY ROSE, a major vessel in King Henry VIII's fleet, sank and has been excavated and is today a museum, and is also the only significant source for actual "medieval" longbows that have survived until present times.

Submarine Privateer, I love your idea for a 16th century longbow-totin' seaman impression. I just might borrow it!

Capt. William

[Daniel]

Was the Mary Rose the one that sank when she heeled over and took water through her lower gunports?

[El Pirata]

Was the Mary Rose the one that sank when she heeled over and took water through her lower gunports?

That's what sunk a great many galleons.

[capnwilliam]

The MARY ROSE was indeed the vessel that took on water through her lower gunports and sank, in 1545.

There was another English vessel by the same name that was constructed in 1556, and saw action against the Spanish Armada; another one in the 1600's; and a destroyer, launched in 1915.

Many mates confuse the original MARY ROSE with the VASA, a Swedish vessel that sank just as it was launched, in 1628. But HMS MARY ROSE had a distinguished career before she sank.

Let's drink to the MARY ROSE, and to all her mates!

Capt. William

[Thomas B.]

aye, here's to the Mary Rose

[corsair2k3]

Greetings,

The Spanish colonists, and of course their Indian allies, apparently used bows and arrows later than did their compatriots back home.

Remember that wonderful vignette when one of Morgan's men uses a musket to fires an arrow back at a Spanish fortification, and manages to sets the place ablaze.

Regards,

Corsair

[Zorg]

I finds it fascinatin....

There be a host of deadly toys aboard the Mary Rose that we never see in the literature. There were longbows, gunshields (targets with matchlocks built inta them...no idea how widely used they were), and cannon with removable breech boxes, looooooong before the 1800's breechloading cannon.

The main trouble with a longbow be, if ye be not pullin the ting by about the age o nine, you'll never get the strenghth to pull it with the accuracy and 12 shafts a minute required of archers (that be some 450 pounds of force across the shoulders, kiddies). I can train any swain in firin a handcannon in two weeks. Not pretty, but it'll go bang an hit somethin.

There were apparently some longbows used in the revolutionary war as well, on the colonials side.

root hog or die.

Zorg the horribly befuddled

[capnwilliam]

Aye, Zorq, the longbow actually had a lot of strong points, vs. the earliest firearms - significantly slower rate of fire, greater susceptibility to inclement elements - but one big advantage: ye could take a pack of knaves who'd maybe never held bow or gun in their lives, and teach 'em in a few hours how to load, aim, and fire in volley. As ye say, all that lead a-floatin' down field's bound to hit somethin'.

Archers, though, had to start in boyhood, and train every day, to have the accuracy to hit anything. Or, and far more importantly in battle, to have the muscular strength and endurance to be able to pull and release a shaft from an 80 - 120 lb. longbow, 10 - 12 times a minute.

This is why the medieval knights and the Japanese samurai so hated the introduction of the gun; made it too easy for an army of peasant rabble to make short shrift of skills with the sword, spear, and bow that took years to acquire and perfect.

AND, it made our modern democracies possible: you can't boss the peasants around if they've got thundersticks!

Capt. William

NRA Life Member

P.S. Has anyone on the list seen The Last Samurai yet?

[Deacon Frye]

... There were apparently some longbows used in the revolutionary war as well, on the colonials side.

root hog or die.

Zorg the horribly befuddled

Ben Franklin at one point suggested that longbows might be a viable option, but I don't believe longbows were ever actually used or acquired by American forces in the AWI.