Historical v's interpretive

[Silkie McDonough]

Well said Blackjohn!

Thank you William.

Hurricain/Morgan,

I do apologize for assuming the worst from pirates. I consider emptying a room of anything that was not nailed down stripping a room. You had not mentioned putting anything back in your original post. What was I to think? Please include all the information in your future posts, it will save the trouble dancing around while trying not to offend a fellow pub member.

Now, If I understand you correctly, a true pirate is one because of his/her attitude towards life. That Gates, Jobs, etc are pirates and the remainder of their crews are not. In my humble opinion, There is a major flaw in that statement. There would have been far too many captains for the ships available and far too few crew to man them. Not all pirates were captains. I would venture an uneducated guess that the majority were not. Now, captains of industry are called that for a reason but what is a captain without a crew? He is an overworked individual on the verge of a breakdown or a heart attack ...or both!

It also seems to me that a "true pirate", one who exemplifies the mind set, would not be concerned with trying to see the world see his as the only correct view. In fact I would think a true pirate would tend to the opposite. Who cares what the others think. "I am who I am and that's all that I am."

Yea, I know, Popeye was a sailor not a pirate!

To all,

I have a very high regard for the stitch counters. I think they perform a great service for the remainder of us. It is their research and attention to detail that makes it possible for me to dress 'closs enough for stage' and still not appear a fool in polyester. My first garb is mostly linen (well poly cotton blend linen look ...I had it in the house), and the style is correct only because of the efforts of others and the information provided in Captain Twill.

Now, with any luck at restraining myself, you will not hear from me on this subject again ....LOTS of luck!

[hurricane]

Who cares what the others think.  "I am who I am and that's all that I am."

Well said, well said! I think that about sums it up here.

And who would want it any other way?

-- Hurricane

[HarborMaster]

I am sure I would be considered in the "Looney bin " myself. However like Hurricane I am proud to say I did it my way. See Hurricane got up and left his home and made his life in an enviroment that accomodates his piratical desires. That takes gusto. Its alot easier to BS people or finess them with poop., as opposed to gettin of yer duff and actually makin yer world happen the way you want it too. This in fact is hard..., If it was easy everyone would be do'in it..., thats what makes it so great.

If the pirate re-enactment is so important to you all., then whats stopping you from taking it to the next level?

Whats wrong with moving right up to the water., lining it with cannon., and having a view of your ship when your eye opens in the morn?

Sound a bit too much...., maybe?., but we can try. I have not accomplished all I have set in goals., but I am working on it. We are not rich., but if we really try it will happen..., for those who dont....., nothing.

Actually anyone can do it. We live in America., if you cant make your dreams come true here with the tools you have as an American., you couldnt make them happen anywhere.

I refuse to lay down and accept an average life. If you really want to live a life like this..., then you HAVE to get up and go for it.

[Cire]

Actually anyone can do it. We live in America., if you cant make your dreams come true here with the tools you have as an American., you couldnt make them happen anywhere.

I'm not an American! I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose, I'm kosher mum, I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it! Oh wait, that's Monty Python's Brian.

I'm British, and I may or may not be proud of it.

[HarborMaster]

Just the same mate., Brits got it pretty good too.

Talk is cheap., if someone claims to want to do these things., let them do it., otherwise they may be missing out. Imagine a "Biker" with no bike., how many of these do we know?.,how about a cowboy with no horse? A drag racer with the., "Well back in my day I had a 68 camaro., and a 68 vette" Right., how many of these losers do you know?

All I am sayin., is if you want to claim it., then do it., otherwise it makes a person a "wanna-be".

Theres no fun in that., for me. I have to try to make my dreams come true. If not why dream them to begin with ?

Playin pirate is cool., but if you want to play it...,play it right.

[Sir Beachem Quick]

This has been very educational for me personally and hopefully no one got hurt over it but truthfully while I knew I would get a reaction out of the crowd I really had no idea what that would be.

I am willing to concede that pirating may be a thought process, life view or what have you , , , I see nothing wrong with that at all. Ultimately no mater where you fall in the spectrum we all have a varying degree of Pirate in us. Our inner pirate if you will.

I guess some of us are very in tune to it and others of us try not to let it run (that's RUN) our lives. For those of you that do let it run your lives I give you a big thumbs up Just quit trying to impress the rest of us with how more authentic and genuine you are because of it. It's not helpful and serves no valuable purpose that I have been able to see.

If you want to go out in the world and do it YOUR way have at it.

Somebody really needs to write a book about all the aspects of the inner pirate I know it would be a best seller.

That is all

[Rumba Rue]

[Monterey Jack]

Just the same mate., Brits got it pretty good too.

Talk is cheap., if someone claims to want to do these things., let them do it., otherwise they may be missing out. Imagine a "Biker" with no bike., how many of these do we know?.,how about a cowboy with no horse? A drag racer with the., "Well back in my day I had a 68 camaro., and a 68 vette" Right., how many of these losers do you know?

All I am sayin., is if you want to claim it., then do it., otherwise it makes a person a "wanna-be".

Theres no fun in that., for me. I have to try to make my dreams come true. If not why dream them to begin with ?

Playin pirate is cool., but if you want to play it...,play it right.

Harbormaster

This whole post is exactly the kind of thing that has people up in arms as it were.

First, you ask us to imagine a biker without a bike, cowboy with no horse, etc., alluding to the fact that if they don't have the right accoutrements, it makes them less of what they are . History is full of cowboys without horses, fighter pilots without planes...and seamen who for a time have no ship. The articles aren't what make you a pirate. This just feeds into the whole "if you don't have the right toys, you can't play", which is BS.

Then you say if you can't try and make your dreams come true, why dream them? Because that's what makes them dreams. For many its the escape, albeit temporarily, from every day crap.The hope for something different (not always better). If, like you, a person has the ability to try, that's fantastic, but here again, your statement implies that if they can't try to be a real pirate, they should give up. Personally, I don't want parts of me blown off, have Guinea worms living under my skin, or suffer from the bloody flux or die of alcohol abuse. Does that mean I should quit?

Lastly, you say if you're going to play, fine, but play it right.

This is the real capper, because we've proven here that there isn't a right way. There are varieties of interpretations based on a central theme depending upon the individuals desired outcome. You can play a comic pirate, a serious pirate, a Hollywood pirate, an historically correct pirate...but each of them are played a different way. There is a right way for you, but its your way, and to imply anything else is not only cruel, but a waste of what you're capable of in educating those who are interested. Your statements, read the way you've posted, will nip in the bud any desire to play pirate if they don't start out perfectly authentic; and that my friend is wrong.

I've said far more than my peice here, so I'll away to more temperate climes.

[Sheila]

I am sure I would be considered in the "Looney bin " myself. However like Hurricane I am proud to say I did it my way. See Hurricane got up and left his home and made his life in an enviroment that accomodates his piratical desires. That takes gusto. Its alot easier to BS people or finess them with poop., as opposed to gettin of yer duff and actually makin yer world happen the way you want it too. This in fact is hard..., If it was easy everyone would be do'in it..., thats what makes it so great.

I very much agree with you and I must belong to the same loony bin because I just followed Hurricaine's lead and picked up and moved from Kansas City to Florida to live more of the life I want.

I am more of a performer but I try to dabble in a little of everything, costuming, education, and most of all fun!!! Some outing with our group is all business, and then some we just sit back and sing sea shanties and drink a tankard or two. I like the mix I have.

[Lady Seahawke]

Well I picked up ...leaving all family back in Ohio and moved to California on my own. I was told I was crazy, I would never find a job, the expenses were to high, nor would I ever make it out here. In fact, I recently found out that certain members of my family had a bet on how long it would take before I would be calling and begging for help to get back to Ohio. The longest they thought would be 4 months. They all lost. It has been 6 years ago.

Well it was true, I didn't have a job lined up...I prayed entire way that my old car wouldn't break down on the road. In fact I had to have the heater on to keep the car from over heating while I drove through the Arizona desert. I didn't have any connections out here ...when I got here and I had only $256.00 to my name with a roof over my head for exactly one month. BUT, I made it... I did it my way. Within one week I got a job and am still at the same place. I have been promoted since then. I have my own place...small but very nice. It isn't the first time I had to start from nothing. I am a survivor...I can survive anything.

Ok, whether you think of me having a pirate mindset...don't care..If not...that's ok...I'll take the title Amazon...I will fight for what I need...when I need it. I will take care of myself and overcome any and all obstacles.

Pirate...or ...Amazon, either way...it is ...ME!!!!

Many have found out, the moment you tell me something is impossible is the moment I will prove it can be done.

A little bit of my personal philosophy...

A dream without a plan is nothing more then a fantasy....

A plan without action is nothing more then a dream...

[HarborMaster]

Thats Your way Monterey Jack ., your post vents your way.

Mine vents mine. For me I will do the best I can do at a certain interest. If I cant give something my all......, then I will focus it on something I can. This biker does putt down the road on his bike.,and this pirate collects his cannons.

I do not play cowboy., I am not good at that one., so I did not get the horse...., I will not play half ass .., its not worth it to me and it doesnt look good.

I cant fly fighter jets so I just drink as much as I can on 747's.

Lastly, you say if you're going to play, fine, but play it right.

This is the real capper, because we've proven here that there isn't a right way.

Ahhh but there is a right way.., and that is DO YOUR BEST.

" play it right" Yes that is the capper...., this is it., life. This is not some dress rehersal and after we get it figured out then "Its show time".., no man this is it ! So infact we do the best we can ..., that is playing it right.., doing the best we can.., always trying a bit harder., keeping our focus., and making it happen the best that it can be.,for whatever your thing is. ! Pick one thing and strive to be really great at it......, whats wrong with that? Yes that is thee capper giving your all

That is all.

Sheila and Lady Seahawke., I do believe YOUVE GOT IT. cheers to you both

Lady Seahawke take your dream .,then turn it into a plan..., then stick to the plan......, I like you.

[Zephaniah W Nash]

Just a tiny little quibble. That's all. I promise...

I know lots of cowboys. You know, the real kind, that make their living off of... um, what was it...? Oh yeah, cows. I even make a small bit of my own income from beef.

At least half of 'em don't even own a horse (we happen to have two - one of which is a movie star - and I do still have to saddle up now and then, for which my derrierre ain't usually happy). Cowboyin' is done 99% from a pickup these days. Just sayin'...

[HarborMaster]

I think you get my meaning Mr. Nash. So your saying someone owns some beef and a place to grow it....., yea that certainly qualifys. That person is doing something., thats really the point .

[Zephaniah W Nash]

That's pretty much what I'm getting at, HarborMaster.

Plus, it's along the lines of folks doing things their own way. There's them that like to put on pointy-toed boots and a $200 Stetson, and there's them that make a living at cowboyin'.

I'm not saying either is better than the other - well, okay, that $200 Stetson doesn't mean you can brand a steer, but you get my point...

[Phillip Black]

This has been a really interesting topic for me. I'm new to the whole pirate garb/ren-actment/faire..etc. whatever you want to call it. I'm still putting my costume together...and yes I call it a costume because for me, that's exactly what it is, not a kit. A kit suggests that I might use it for some purpose...but I'm not a pirate, never was, never will be, in the true sense of the word. My family asks me why I spend money on clothes and stuff that will sit in my closet for 362 days out of the year, and the only answer I have is because I want it!

I guess my point is like that of many others already posted on this board. I want to do this because it's fun. I enjoy the fantasy of it. I appreciate historic re-enactors, as they help to keep us bonded with history, but I know it's not for me. Some people enjoy the discipline and effort that is required to be 100% authentic. But me? I just want to party, pirate-style!

Pirates are cool, way cool. I seriously doubt that in 2306 people will be making khakis and polo shirts to re-enact my life at the office...I guess that means that pretending to be a pirate, if only for a little while, helps me escape the humdrum of our modern life.

Although, incidentally, there are a lot of people who are pretending to be bikers in my area...perhaps that's no different than pretending to be a pirate? They may have the soft tail Harley and the leather vest, dew rag, etc. but they are no more a biker than I'm a pirate.

[Rumba Rue]

<sigh>

There will always be conflict over this issue. It's like 'give it up already guys'.

[LongTom]

{edit} You're right. Never mind.

[The Doctor]

Well said, Rumba.

[Hawkyns]

My family asks me why I spend money on clothes and stuff that will sit in my closet for 362 days out of the year,

That may be part of the answer. I want my kit(s) to be correct because I will spend probably 40-45 weekends in them, plus weekday evenings, plus some longer encampments. I don't change out of them at 5 as the faire closes, I live in them for days at a time. I work cannons, in them, cook over a fire in them, stand watches on ships in them. All in all, I will probably spend nearly one third of the year in kit, so it has to be able to act as real clothing.

Since I am performing the same tasks that were originally performed, it makes sense to me that the clothing that was originally designed and developed for the job is the best thing to wear.

Hawkyns

[Sir Beachem Quick]

Perhaps now that the horse has been so effectively beaten the moderators would consider giving it a proper funeral . . . at Sea even.

[CheChe]

Perhaps now that the horse has been so effectively beaten the moderators would consider giving it a proper funeral  . . . at Sea even.

Not so fast, Sir.

I thought the debate was fascinating. I read valid points from all camps. Sure, it's been discussed before and this won't be the last time. I read every post and enjoyed them all. I learned a few things, too.

I learned it's time for me to sell my Queen Anne pistol. *LOL*

I see no reason why this thread should be deleted. It was a great discussion.

[Sir Beachem Quick]

Perhaps now that the horse has been so effectively beaten the moderators would consider giving it a proper funeral  . . . at Sea even.

Not so fast, Sir.

I thought the debate was fascinating. I read valid points from all camps. Sure, it's been discussed before and this won't be the last time. I read every post and enjoyed them all. I learned a few things, too.

I learned it's time for me to sell my Queen Anne pistol. *LOL*

I see no reason why this thread should be deleted. It was a great discussion.

Actually though not everyone will admit it, I think discussions such as these are extremely important and very beneficial to all of us. the thing is we just have to remember to be civil and not take things personally.

Yes there really are a million different ways to be play or act a pirate and as I said in the very first post we just need to find a happy place were all can co-exist in harmony.

that is all

[Rumba Rue]

AMEN!

[Zephaniah W Nash]

I'm with some others here - this has not been a bad thread. Some knowledge gained, and few fights.

I've always been pretty firmly convinced that quite a few arguments on message boards are as much - or more - a fault of the medium than those arguing. When you're reading dry text, it seems that it's often easy to take something in not at all the spirit it was intended.

I always try to do my best to give anyone posting the benefit of the doubt in reading their post in the most agreeable light. I think I've ended up being right more often than wrong, particularly here...

[Hrothgar Addams]

Given the fact that this topic is one of those that will cause a war--like religion and politics-- the discussion has been remarkably civil.

And I salute you all.

We were not there when Maynard fought Teach. We were not there when Kidd did the hempen jig. We did not sail with Morgan or Drake. We didn't man the guns with Lefitte at New Orleans.

We didn't try to outsmart Jackie Cooper. We never slid down a mainsail hanging from a dagger with Doug Fairbanks. We weren't even extras standing behind Flynn.

We all hold the Idea of Piracy in our hearts. It is the attitude--Pyratitude (mind the pun!) that means something to us.

In the real world I'm not much. . .a 50ish, overweight, underpaid, working schmuck, not even putting all his education to good use. By the standards of many I'm pretty much a loser. I'm not even much of a Reenactor --not hardcore or farby. I don't dress up to perform at renfaires. I hardly have any stuff (kit or costume) worth mentioning.

What I do have is an admiration of things Pyratical. Despite the historical negatives--yes, they were murdering robbing thugs-- pirates were something else.

They formed some of the first democracies in the Western Hemisphere. Leaders ruled by consent of the crews, and through their abilities. The crews themselves were castoffs from a society that treated them like scum. Under the black flag lay opportunity to rise above your station in life--and failing that --a chance to live in your feet and not on your knees. A chance I like to think I would have taken back then.

These days when we dress up--we all know it is just pretend.

But ain't it nice to be someone we really aren't, even for a day.

I, I will be king

And you, you will be queen

Though nothing will drive them away

We can beat them, just for one day

We can be Heroes, just for one day

And you, you can be mean

And I, I'll drink all the time

'Cause we're lovers, and that is a fact

Yes we're lovers, and that is that

Though nothing, will keep us together

We could steal time,

just for one day

We can be Heroes, for ever and ever

What d'you say?

I, I wish you could swim

Like the dolphins, like dolphins can swim

Though nothing,

nothing will keep us together

We can beat them, for ever and ever

Oh we can be Heroes,

just for one day

I, I will be king

And you, you will be queen

Though nothing will drive them away

We can be Heroes, just for one day

We can be us, just for one day

I, I can remember (I remember)

Standing, by the wall (by the wall)

And the guns shot above our heads

(over our heads)

And we kissed,

as though nothing could fall

(nothing could fall)

And the shame was on the other side

Oh we can beat them, for ever and ever

Then we could be Heroes,

just for one day

We can be Heroes

We can be Heroes

We can be Heroes

Just for one day

We can be Heroes

We're nothing, and nothing will help us

Maybe we're lying,

then you better not stay

But we could be safer,

just for one day

David Bowie