COFFEE

[Hawkyns]

Ed, can you suggest some research material for 18th century brothels?

I've got a lot about 16th c, but little or none for the 18th c.

It's a much under appreciated part of period life, one that is cast as evil by the overly PC and puritan minds of the current age.

Hawkyns

[blackjohn]

I'd be curious to see Ed's suggestions as well. Here's mine:

Wits, Wenchers and Wantons: London's Low Life: Convent Garden in the Eighteenth Century by E.J. Burford.

[StrangeBayPirate]

Perhaps "The Floating Brothel" by Sian Rees

1789 aboard the good ship Lady Julian is 237 women convicts.

I have not read this book as yet but it just made it on my list.

[Fox]

Ahem, I haven't read it myself you understand, but "Sex in Georgian England: Attitudes and Prejudices from the 1720s to the 1820s" by A.D. Harvey has been recommended to me.

For a general overview of prostitution through history you might find a copy of "The History of Prostitution" (sometimes called "Ladies of Vice") by George Ryley Scott.

For a contemporary take on 18thC prostitution you should, of course, read Fanny Hill, written by John Cleland in 1749. It's pornography (and damn good pornography too!), but it is period and large chunks of it are set in a London brothel. Just tell the missus it's research...

[Capt. Sterling]

What about The Fortunes and Misfortunes of the famous Moll Flanders by Defoe? I haven't read this one yet, only seen it done on the tube. And Fanny Hill is a brilliant book for that sort of "research" .

Hector

[Patrick Hand]

Aaaargh.... coffee an tarts...... ain't history fun.....

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Hey... I've got my coffee this mornin'... let's see them "TARTS"!

Haw Haw!

Good mornin'! .... Capt. Bo

[Rumba Rue]

Does this work for you?

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Those are BUNS... I asked for TARTS!!!

Capt. Bo

[Rumba Rue]

Ok, here's a tart for you.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

MEEEOOOWW! Think she'd wanna go tomcattin' around?

Good mornin' Rumba! Have a great day!

Capt. bo

[capnwilliam]

Jas. Townsend used to offer a small brass cofee grinder, but I haven't seen it in the recent catalogues. Anyone know where I might find one? I think it would be a damn good period demo to use in camp, showing the public how much work was involved to make a pot of coffee in an early 18th century camp.

Capt. Bo

Capt. Bo,

You might try an e-bay search: I got one for my wife (an old one; no, not my wife, the coffee grinder! ) on e-bay.

I remember when I was with the SCA the issue came up whether coffee was period for THEM (pre-1601) and someone offered info that it was; at least, in Arab lands.

Capt. William

[Fox]

You learn something new every day! I always thought coffee was a South American plant, so I was a bit confused about Arabs having it pre-1601 (they never made it across the pond). Imagine my surprise to discover that it originated in East Africa. It was banned in Mecca and Cairo during the 16thC, and the first coffee house was opened in Istambul in 1554.

For those of you who aren't heathens the use of tea by Europeans can be dated to the early 17thC when it became popular in Russia, and to the mid-17thC in England - at around the same time as coffee became popular in fact.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Yes, that was an "eye opener" for me as well. Ethiopian goats get high and we all get coffee! What a deal!

So the UK got tea and coffee together? An "overdose"! No wonder you guys are so busy!

Have a good one Foxe! (I know... the jokes were very lame.)

Capt. Bo

[Tall Paul]

Aaaargh.... coffee an tarts...... ain't history fun..... 

Dont forget the Womens pettition agaisy Coffee of 1674

or to use its full title,

THE WOMEN'S PETITION AGAINST COFFEE

REPRESENTING TO PUBLICK CONSIDERATION

THE Grand INCONVENIENCIES accruing to their SEX from the Excessive Use of that Drying, Enfeebling LIQUOR.

"the Excessive use of that Newfangled, Abominable, Heathenish Liquor called COFFEE, which Riffling Nature of her Choicest Treasures, and Drying up the Radical Moisture, has so Eunucht our Husbands, and Crippled our more kind Gallants, that they are become as Impotent, as Age, and as unfruitful as those Desarts whence that unhappy Berry is said to be brought."

The main thrust of the complaint was that men were unable to fulfill their obligations in the bedroom due to the effects of the excessive time spent in the coffee house.

They come from it with nothing moist but their snotty Noses, nothing stiffe but their Joints, nor standing but their Ears:

You can find the full text of the pettition here

Womens pettition against coffee 1674

and you can find the mens reply here

The Mens Answer to the Womens Petition against Coffee (London 1674)

"Tall Paul" Adams

[Tall Paul]

Oh... fwiw, Neumann's Rev War encyclopedia leads me to believe those brass grinders are a little later than our period. He says in the 17th century beans were ground with a mortar and pestle.

The Brass, "Turkish" Coffee grinder was popular in America by the time of the War of Indipendence, and it was certanly in use in its country of origin considerably erlier than this, but when it made its way across the Atlantic is unclear.

Whilst looking for a picture of a wooden 17th Century Coffee mill, I came across tis source for brass, coffee grinders. bothe the quality and the price is ithe best that I have see, and it includes shipping

Coffee grinder from Turkey

There are quite a few 17th Century Coffee mills surviving, (There is one on display in my local museum here in Colchester)

They were made from turned hardwood, Lignem Vitae, and were constructed in three interlocking parts.

I was unable to find any photographs to post, and the structure of these things is not easy to describe, but I shall do my best.

Part one.

The grinder.

The top part of the mill has a domed handle and was used to grind the beans. the lower half was a conical shape, usually carved with a series of ridges to provide a grinding surface.

this fitted snugly into.

Part Two

The moarter

The second part has a conical recess, the reverse of the top piece, into which the beans were placed. at the bottom of the cup, was a hole, approximately one inch diameter over which a metal plate was attached.

The plate was drilled through with a series of holes through which the particles of ground coffee fell.

part three.

the base,

The bottom section of the mill was a recepticle into which the ground coffee fell.

once the beans were ground, the base could be removed, and the fresh coffe could be transfered to the pot.

As A side note.

BLACKJOHN. The picture of Rowin Atkinson as Edmund Blackadder that you use as an avatar picture was taken at Colchester Barraks. the buildings in the background are less than a mile from my house.

[Rumba Rue]

Regarding the coffee grinders from Turkey---well now one knows where the look of the water pipe came from. Or is it the other way around?

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

What' a water pipe? And what's it used for? I've never heard of such a thing in my life.

I think hangin out with you pyrate types is a bad influence on my person.

Capt. Bo

[Dorian Lasseter]

Here's a couple....

[blackjohn]

The Brass, "Turkish" Coffee grinder was popular in America by the time of the War of Indipendence, and it was certanly in use in its country of origin considerably erlier than this, but when it made its way across the Atlantic is unclear.

Certainly in use? Or likely?

There are quite a few 17th Century Coffee mills surviving, (There is one on display in my local museum here in Colchester)

They were made from turned hardwood, Lignem Vitae, and were constructed in three interlocking parts.

I was unable to find any photographs to post, and the structure of these things is not easy to describe, but I shall do my best.

Part one.

The grinder.

The top part of the mill has a domed handle and was used to grind the beans. the lower half was a conical shape, usually carved with a series of ridges to provide a grinding surface.

this fitted snugly into.

Part Two

The moarter

The second part has a conical recess, the reverse of the top piece, into which the beans were placed. at the bottom of the cup, was a hole, approximately one inch diameter over which a metal plate was attached.

The plate was drilled through with a series of holes through which the particles of ground coffee fell.

part three.

the base,

The bottom section of the mill was a recepticle into which the ground coffee fell.

once the beans were ground, the base could be removed, and the fresh coffe could be transfered to the pot.

The image I'm getting is similar to a "traditional" coffee grinder... just slightly different. Can you go snap a pic of it? Is this modern one close?

As A side note.

BLACKJOHN. The picture of Rowin Atkinson as Edmund Blackadder that you use as an avatar picture was taken at Colchester Barraks. the buildings in the background are less than a mile from my house.

Cool! Love Blackadder!

[Rumba Rue]

I had to do this, it's from a great bumpersticker I have pasted in my kitchen where I keep my coffee stuff (btw- I'm at least a 3 to five drink coffee person in the mornings- only!):

You know you drink too much coffee when....

1. You don't sweat, you percolate

2. Your life's goal is to amount to a hill of beans.

3. Your birthday is a national holiday in Brazil.

4. You'd be willing to spend time in a Turkish prison.

5. Your coffee mug is insured by Lloyds of London.

6. Jaun Valdez named his donkey after you.

7. You ski uphill

8. You get a speeding ticket even when you're parked

9. You answer the door before people knock

10. You haven't blinked since the last lunar eclipse.

11. You grind your coffee beans in your mouth.

12. You sleep with your eyes open.

13. You can take a picture of yourself from ten fee away without using the timer.

14. You lick your coffeepot clean.

15. You spend every vacation visiting "Maxwell House"

16. You're the employee of the month at the local coffeehouses and you don't even work there.

17. You've worn out your third pair of tennis shoes this week.

18. Your eyes stay open when you sneeze.

19. The nurse needs a scientific calculator to take your pulse.

20. Your T-shirt says, "Decaffeinated coffee is the devil's coffee.

21. All your kids are named "Joe."

22. Your only source of nutrition comes from "Sweet & Low."

23. You've worn out the handle on your favority mug.

24. You forget to unwrap candy bars before eating them.

25. You've built a niniature city out of little plastic stirrers.

26. The Taster's Choice couple wants to adopt you.

27. Instant coffee takes too long.

28. You go to sleelp just so you can wak up and smell the coffee.

29. You name your cats "Cream" and "Sugar".

30. You have a picture of your coffee mug on your coffee mug.

31. You don't even wait for the water to boil anymore.

32. You help your dog chase its tail.

[Tall Paul]

The image I'm getting is similar to a "traditional" coffee grinder... just slightly different. Can you go snap a pic of it? Is this modern one close?

Nope, Not even close.

The closest thing I can think of is a short fat wooden peppermill.

A turned wooden cylander about 3 or 4 inches in diameter by about 9 inches high with a mushroom shaped top.

I have searched the internet for a picture i could post, but so far without luck.

Ok, I have just found a picture. it is from an auction site, so it may not be there for long, so save it while you can

[Tall Paul]

I had to do this, it's from a great bumpersticker I have pasted in my kitchen where I keep my coffee stuff (btw- I'm at least a 3 to five drink coffee person in the mornings- only!):

You know you drink too much coffee when....

1. You don't sweat, you percolate

2. Your life's goal is to amount to a hill of beans.

3. Your birthday is a national holiday in Brazil.

4. You'd be willing to spend time in a Turkish prison.

5. Your coffee mug is insured by Lloyds of London.

6. Jaun Valdez named his donkey after you.

7. You ski uphill

8. You get a speeding ticket even when you're parked

9. You answer the door before people knock

10. You haven't blinked since the last lunar eclipse.

11. You grind your coffee beans in your mouth.

12. You sleep with your eyes open.

13. You can take a picture of yourself from ten fee away without using the timer.

14. You lick your coffeepot clean.

15. You spend every vacation visiting "Maxwell House"

16. You're the employee of the month at the local coffeehouses and you don't even work there.

17. You've worn out your third pair of tennis shoes this week.

18. Your eyes stay open when you sneeze.

19. The nurse needs a scientific calculator to take your pulse.

20. Your T-shirt says, "Decaffeinated coffee is the devil's coffee.

21. All your kids are named "Joe."

22. Your only source of nutrition comes from "Sweet & Low."

23. You've worn out the handle on your favority mug.

24. You forget to unwrap candy bars before eating them.

25. You've built a niniature city out of little plastic stirrers.

26. The Taster's Choice couple wants to adopt you.

27. Instant coffee takes too long.

28. You go to sleelp just so you can wak up and smell the coffee.

29. You name your cats "Cream" and "Sugar".

30. You have a picture of your coffee mug on your coffee mug.

31. You don't even wait for the water to boil anymore.

32. You help your dog chase its tail.

er.......

Let me see............

1,2,11,12,14,18,20,23,27,28 and 31 !!!!!

11 out of 32 isn't too bad

is it ????

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

HEY! What about them there Turkish Boots! Are they GAoP? Sombody get Petee in here quick!

(sorry... couldn't resist!)

Capt Bo

[Fox]

That coffee grinder reminds me a lot of this pepper mill recovered from the Mary Rose.

Replicas available from their shop or by mail order, £39.95.