An earring for your perusal...

[madPete]

Hey - he's wearing me petticoat trousers!

My link

Edited October 3, 2010 by madPete

[Jack Roberts]

Dang that's cool. Couples of things that jump out to me.

The Slashed sleeves of the coat. I can't seem to recall seeing them anywhere else in this period.

(Sterling, Foxe any ideas?) Everything else is looking about right to me. I like the sash and 2 pipes also.

Now let me preface this with I wear earrings and really wish I could keep them in at events.

I'm going to play devils advocate. Perhaps the earring that we are seeing is a wart or skin tag

if some sort? Just a thought.

[PoD]

Oh there's so much good stuff in that picture! Nice one PoD.

Theres actually another in that series of a drunken dutch Sailor

I like the knife he is carrying and the fact he uses ribbons to tie up his stockings. I think its also interesting that Dutch alcohol seems to come in small square bottles. His hat also seems to be a customised wide brimmed peter the great cap.

Edited October 3, 2010 by PoD

[Dorian Lasseter]

Grand images!

other little items of note...

Does he have slash pockets in his wesket? just above the butt of his knife, it looks like a straight line like a pocket opening. Look at the print of his Slops! Not stripes or solid, but a print!

And he's got britches on under the slops too.

PoD, the little square bottles would be Gin bottles. Gin was a very cheap to make spirit in period... Tell that to Tanguray!

Edited October 3, 2010 by Dorian Lasseter

[Fox]

Well, here's my thoughts:

Slashed sleeves are uncommon, but not unknown from this period - as these pictures show.

The petticoat breeches are indeed awesome, but can we be certain those are breeches and not drawers underneath?

The knife is (to me) even more fantastic.

The small case bottle possibly contain gin, or other spiritous liquor.

The hat in the second picture does look very much like what we now call a "Peter the Great". The story, for those who don't know it, is that Tsar Peter the Great visited England in the 1690s and spent quite a bit of time admiring the Royal Navy. He rather liked the hats that he saw the English sailors wearing, so on his way home, during a visit to the Netherlands, he bought one, which now resides in the Hermitage Museum, St. Petersberg.

[Fox]

I don't know how many times I've looked at this Picart image, but I've only just notice that he too has an earring.

[Jack Roberts]

Ahh yes now that is definitely an earring and they are petticote breeches. Look at that coat to. the Sleeves button all the way up. Very cool.

Foxe isn't that another Dutch sailor also? mmmmm

Edited October 4, 2010 by Jack Roberts

[Jack Roberts]

Yes I would think the clothing underneath the Petticote breeches are drawers (underwear!)

[Bos'n Cross]

I concur with mr.foxe and quartermaster roberts(i didnt vote for 'em). Im quite sure those are drawers under his petticoat breeches, owing to the fact that im many many period images sailors are shown wearing their drawers in this manor....untied and easily seen...lol.... as for ribbons on the stockings, i believe what we are seeing is that he has garters on only one leg (our left his right) so on that side his stocking go all the way up to his drawers..but not so on the other side. Also we can now more clearly see that indeed he is wearing earings....but could this possibly be a fashion trend only with the dutch? ..........the slashed sleeves....i find those quite interesting..... iv see images of sleeves that button up to the elbow(as well as the earlier trend of slashed sleeves)....but his whole bleedin arm can unbutton.....makes me want to sew.......

Edited October 4, 2010 by Bos'n Cross

[Mission]

I think it's

.

[Capt. Sterling]

Nice find indeed!

Nice to see the case bottles going back that far, as I was told emphatically no,

and must agree with Foxe, hard to tell if it is breeches or drawers under the petticoat breeches.

As to ribbon garters, they were still being worn, one of the coffee house prints, circa 1700 shows them being worn.

so Jack, does this mean you are now Dutch?

[Capt. Sterling]

as to the slash pocket above the knife butt...is it the one closer to the neck opening than the waist? I am thinking it is just part of the wrinkle...

also can post the portrait of Peter the Great in the sailor's kit, but have to wait to get home to do so, unless Foxe has it to post sooner.

I have two other Dutch images, will post them again for easy comparison

Edited October 4, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[Cuisto Mako]

Regarding the slashes sleeves, maybe this drawing done in 1695 is actually portraying 1650s-60s fashion? I ve seen many art work from that era (50s-60s) with such jacket. Or maybe the dutch were notoriously out of fashion? Either way, very interesting

[Fox]

Nice find indeed!

Nice to see the case bottles going back that far, as I was told emphatically no,

and must agree with Foxe, hard to tell if it is breeches or drawers under the petticoat breeches.

Case bottles go back at least as far as the first half of the seventeenth century. One was found at the Martin's Hundred site, c. 1620-45.

And yes, the Picart picture is of a Dutch/Flemish sailor. (Brabant actually straddles the Belgian-Dutch border)

[jendobyns]

What a cool look! Great prints!

I did a quick check of my Cut of Men's Clothes and found a couple of casaques that were designed with sleeves that buttoned up the length of the inside seam, allowing for a hanging sleeve or cape-like sleeve if unbuttoned. They dated mid-century. There's an example from 1654 (diagram XIII) which has a similar sleeve as the first sailor's.

There is also a version of this second sleeve, on what is called a doublet, in Fashion in Detail. It also dates to the earlier half of the 17 century. The sleeves button the length of the seam, edges are finished.

These are high-end examples, so the sailor's clothing could possibly be second hand, or demonstrate a filtering down of the fashion over time, or are part of the artist's props, or we just don't have any surviving examples from later in the century. It would be so useful to know more about the artist and date of the engravings.

Love the slops, they kind of look like a block print of some kind. The weskit in the first sailor's picture is the same print. And the woman's sleeve also appears to be a print. Interesting.

The earrings are great, pearl drops instead of hoops! I think I've seen this before, in some portrait, but darn if I can find it now! Will do some digging for extant examples. I have seen something similar worn by someone at Jamestown (I think it was an ECW reenactor), it is a very cool look.

Wool tape makes great garters. Slightly stretchy, but grips enough to hold the stockings up. I've abandoned my leather ones in favor of the wool. I think silk ribbon might also have been used, but those show up in later period paintings.

Mistress Dobyns

[Jack Roberts]

so Jack, does this mean you are now Dutch?

Lol I don't think so, but we can discuss it this weekend. I do like my earrings.

[PoD]

The painting is actually one of a set that shows dutch people celebrating the Siege of Namur which happened in 1695 (the same year as the prints were made). The Print was made by Cornelis Dusart and published by Jacob Gole.

I like the knife in the 2nd print a lot too. It's my next project to make one. Looks like a standard rounded end rigging knife if you take into account that most people would wear a knife with the sharp part of the blade pointing down rather than up. The scabbard goes up onto the handle to hold the knife more securely and the bottom of it has a metal chape (brass probably judging by the fact it was popular with the Dutch at the time).

I also just noticed that the sailors have their earrings in opposite ears which may suggest that they had both ears pierced.

Edited October 4, 2010 by PoD

[jendobyns]

Nice find indeed!

Nice to see the case bottles going back that far, as I was told emphatically no,

and must agree with Foxe, hard to tell if it is breeches or drawers under the petticoat breeches.

Case bottles go back at least as far as the first half of the seventeenth century. One was found at the Martin's Hundred site, c. 1620-45.

And yes, the Picart picture is of a Dutch/Flemish sailor. (Brabant actually straddles the Belgian-Dutch border)

This pretty much goes with what I was reading in Hume's "A Guide to Artifacts in Colonial America", it says "Prior to the appearance of the globular-bodied dark green glass bottles of the mid-seventeenth century, the common large bottle was blown into a square-sided mold and had a nearly flat base and a short neck with an everted lip, the latter feature frequently concealed beneath a threaded pewter collar and cap. The bottles varied considerably in size, but because of their vulnerable flat surfaces they were sold, carried, and housed in cases or "cellars", each generally holding a dozen bottles. These case bottles have frequently been described as "Dutch gin bottles," probably because they were so used in the latter part of the eighteenth century. The Dutch bottles for "Hollands" or "Geneva," were certainly square-sectioned (though tapering toward the base), but that does not infer that all square-bodied bottles were of Dutch origin. On the contrary, they undoubtedly represented a very large part of the English bottle output of the first half of the seventeenth century."

There is more, it is really worth checking out a copy of this book if you can get it. Lots of diagrams of various artifacts with their dates and descriptions.

Mistress D.

[PoD]

I was looking at the knife last night and I suddenly realised what the shape reminded me of. I had seen a 17th Century trade knife on my travels around the net and as it turned out it was Dutch too:

[Capt. Sterling]

Thanks Ed and Mistress Dobyns!

[Fox]

Wait...in normal life, Professor Foxe has an earring?! A momento from your mis-spent youth?

Two (in the same ear). And yes.

[PoD]

Wait...in normal life, Professor Foxe has an earring?! A momento from your mis-spent youth?

Two (in the same ear). And yes.

i must have mis-spent my youth in the same way as I have 2 in one ear also (although it was originally 3 but after bending a cheap metal ring together in my ear it went a bit funny and healed up)

There is actually another dutch sketch of a man wearing an earring dating from between 1636-1674. He is aparently wearing oriental costume though so he could be a merchant of some sort. He certainly doesnt look oriental:

http://www.britishmu...&currentPage=12

Description

Portrait of an unidentified man with a beard and short hair, bust seen in profile to left but staring at the viewer, in oriental costume with jewels on his shoulder, an earring in his left ear

There is also an italian picture of a Turkish man from 1648 - 1651 wearing an earring:

http://www.britishmu...&currentPage=16

Description

Turk with a moustache and beard; bust portrait, turned towards right, wearing an earring and a turban decorated with five small feathers at front; an oval composition. 1649-1650

Then theres this 1683 British drawing of a young boy with an earring very similar to the ones in the Dutch pictures:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectid=1513556&partid=1&searchText=earring&fromDate=1650&fromADBC=ad&toDate=1730&toADBC=ad&numpages=10&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&currentPage=24

Description

Head of a young black boy, looking to left, wearing a broad square white collar and an earring; a copy in reverse after Hollar. c.1683

Edited January 15, 2011 by PoD

[PoD]

Heres a load more (just for reference of what male earrings looked like around the GAOP period if nothing else)

Description

1585-1656 French Portrait of an unknown man; head and shoulders turned slightly to left, looking to front, small beard and moustache, wearing shirt with large collar and earring

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectid=721818&partid=1&searchText=earring&fromDate=1650&fromADBC=ad&toDate=1730&toADBC=ad&numpages=10&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&currentPage=28

Description

1642-1665 British Portrait of William Herbert, third Earl of Pembroke, half length in an oval, beard and moustache, wearing earring, ruff, ribbon and George, and holding wand.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectid=3049329&partid=1&searchText=earring&fromDate=1650&fromADBC=ad&toDate=1730&toADBC=ad&numpages=10&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&currentPage=35

Description

1685-1740 Italian/Dutch Portrait of a tousled-haired soldier with earring on left earlobe, seen three-quarter length, standing before a low bas-relief, his right hand on his sword handle, the other hand pointing to the distance, where three soldiers can be seen in a landscape dominated by a fortress

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectid=3252337&partid=1&searchText=earring&fromDate=1650&fromADBC=ad&toDate=1730&toADBC=ad&numpages=10&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&currentPage=45

[PoD]

Description

1667 French Portrait of Henri de Lorraine, Count of Harcourt, traditionally known as 'le Cadet à la Perle'; the sitter is seen three-quarter length, in a richly embroidered costume with insignia of the Order of the Saint-Esprit and a pearl on his left ear, standing near gauntlets and a helmet, and holding a command baton, with nocturnal landscape and fortress on fire in the background and his coat of arms in the lower margin.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectid=1351047&partid=1&searchText=earring&fromDate=1650&fromADBC=ad&toDate=1730&toADBC=ad&numpages=10&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&currentPage=49

Description

1680-1720 British Portrait of John Hardman the Famous Corncutter (as in chiropodist), half length in an oval, long hair and moustache, wearing hat, earring, neckcloth, coat, and two badges with royal coat of arms.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_image.aspx?objectId=1668642&partId=1&searchText=earring&fromDate=1650&fromADBC=ad&toDate=1730&toADBC=ad&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&numPages=10&currentPage=52&asset_id=225820

Just goes to show that there was people all around the world wearing earrings in that time period and people from different walks of life and social standing too. Still no other pictures of sailors though up to yet. I'll keep looking.

[Mission]

Wait...in normal life, Professor Foxe has an earring?! A momento from your mis-spent youth?

Two (in the same ear). And yes.

Man, I have GOT to get over there and meet you - preferably at an event where you have some time to chat. You, dt and PoD are definitely on my list of UK folks to meet...

I think Ginger might already be claimed, isn't there already a tall redhead 'round here?

There's Red Jessi, although she's been absent lately. OTOH, I wouldn't put her in either the Ginger or Mary Anne category.

Say, what's with all this OT banter?