Questions that need answers !

[Pirate Petee]

Gunners Jacket

First, how period is this jacket, real period or questionably period?

Second, so all of the long coats from the GoAP, that we would call pirate coats are actually called, "Justaucorp"? If so, I have some questions about my justaucorp that is made and almost done with fine details. Especially on the back. On some pictures, drawings and etchings, on the "slits"? Some have buttons all the way down, some have buttons and holes all the way down, some have holes all the way down and some just have two buttons on the top, are all styles correct?

[Gentleman of Fortune]

One question per day you sassy devil...

The "gunners" jacket.

Man I don't know what the hell that thing is based off of. If you check out the post above (hurricane's Morgan pic post) I have posted some other mid 17th century pictures that show a really short bolero style jacket that is specific to that period.

It wasn't a sailor's thing but more or less a fashionable thing at the time.

Again from the Salacious Historian....

The coat shrank towards a tiny, open doublet, with sleeves reaching only to the elbows, and extremely short, ending high above the waist, very similar to the modern "Bolero" jacket or the Spanish Matador's jacket.

Which seems to be describing the jacket that could be the basis for the "Gunners Jacket" you link too.

Sailors had a short jacket of the time too, as it was the most practical thing for aboard ship. It could have the mariners style cuff and could be pretty short as well. Most contemporary sailor pictures we have (even those of pirates) they seem to be wearing this short jacket (not the "gunner jacket" though)

Kass may have more to add on the back of the coat details... but as you say, there are several different styles.

I guess it might depend on what time frame you are shooting for. I know that there are a lot of folks that believe that fashions hardly changed, but they really did (especially on the upper class end of the scale).

So if you are doing a "regular" sailors justaucorps for going ashore. You might follow a bit of an earlier style... like buttons on the left (looking at it) and "holes" on the right with no button "anchoring" the top of the slit.

I will also add that for the justaucorps, on the front you can leave the last 8 buttons or so un "cut" that is they are fake buttons (the stitching is around the hole but they don't open to allow a button to fasten). This is also true of the back slit. Just so the button holes as to parallel stithing lines but don't cut them open.

Some details

http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/Justaucorps.htm

Pleas post what you come up with as we would love to see it!

GoF

[Dorian Lasseter]

Petee....

I think ye'd be better off wi' this from Jas Townsend.....

http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?c...&products_id=29

Cheaper too... an more "period".....

I plan on one o' these soon.... an' mayhaps a greatcoat, or civilian coat...

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I wish they would give us some better pictures of the Townsend short jacket....

GoF

[greenighs]

The Townsend short jacket is what I'm planning on sewing, but in coarse linen (or hemp/linen more correct?). It just seems that the Justaucorps is too fancy for a simple deckhand: so much cloth and so much detail, I wouldn't think an "entry level" seaman could afford such a coat. However, it is my understanding that pirate crews loved to flout sumptuary laws, and wore fabrics and colors "above their station." Would that tendency express itself in the attire of all the crew, or just the most powerful and prosperous? Or is it a misconception entirely? (And yes, I'm asking, so no, I'll not be sensitive about the answer. )

[Gentleman of Fortune]

This is the "other" hot debate topic among pirate enthusiast. If we look at the historical evidence, it seems that the majority of pirates wore regular sailor's clothing.

Or at least, that is what I gather when i read eye witness accounts of pirate attacks (from the victims), look at trial records and other contemporary descriptions, and look at pictures of pirates that are specific to the GAoP.

We do know however, that they would try to wear their best when going ashore, and I believe they would also try to dress for the occasion when attacking another ships.

I don't believe that this could be stretched to believing that all pirate wore flashy clothing... A lot of our modern prejudice about the free wheeling pirate spirit muddies the historical waters so much that we can't see the bottom anymore.

The majority of acts of piracy during the GAoP seem to have been aimed at commerce raiding in the Caribbean and along the eastern seaboard. More often than not, cargo (or spoils of piracy) would be lumber, foodstuffs, textiles, or ships provisions.

There seems to be a notion that every ship on the seas was laden with the latest fashions, just waiting to be stolen by the sailors turned fashion critic pirates.

Obviously, if the fantasy aspects of piracy are what appeals to you, the door is open and wide to whatever your heart tells you is appropriate for a pirate to wear.

I heard a disclaimer about the SCA's interpretation of the medieval period as "the Middle Ages as they should have been".

I think that should be the motto of the bulk of the Piracy community as well…. The Golden Age, as it should have been.

Good luck… and keep us updated with your progress!

[Fox]

Somewhere recently (danged if I can remember where) I heard something bad about Townsend clothing (danged if I can remember what!), but I do know several people with his stuff and they're all satisfied, so maybe I'm wrong.

The gunner's jacket just doesn't look quite right to me, but even if it is historically accurate it's for a much earlier period than GAoP, and has absolutely nothing to do with gunnery.

I've often wondered about the idea of pirates going out of their way to look fashionable ashore. First off, there are a few incidents (like the very famous Cocklyn/Davis/LaBouse badly fitting coat incident), but does that mean that all pirates got togged up? Maybe.

Second, our idea of what was fashionable and what pirates considered fashionable might well be different. We tend to think that aping the aristo's would make a man fashionable, but there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that seamen followed their own fashion, even when ashore - smart short jackets and clean white trousers, rather than long coats and brocquade breeches. The captains might have dressed up, but did the grunts? Maybe not.

Either way, I think you're on the right track Greenighs. A pirate might have worn a long coat on land, if he could get one, but he would have been very unlikely to wear it at sea.

[Coastie04]

This can go back to that debate on whether human nature has changed in the last couple hundred years. I know many people on ships nowaday that do 'dress up' when the ship hits port. In other words, they have a shore-going rig and get out of their usually rather dirty working clothes. Pirates were essentially just sailors of a particular trade, piracy. If they could go on land and woo the prettier women with stylish, or at least clean clothes (if they owned them), then they probably would. Who really likes wearing what they wear to work when they're going out on the town? From this perspective, I think it's quite reasonable that pirates would at least put their nicest, whether trendy or not, clothes on while in port. Unless they wanted to blend in, of course, then they might strive to look like other more legitimate sailors, who probably put their best clothes on to go out on the town as well.

Just my two cents worth.

Coastie

[Pirate Petee]

Beggars can't be choosers.