Boots

[Captain_MacNamara]

*sits on a nearby couch and munches popcorn*

Hey, this is better than what's on TV...

For myself... I wear leather combat boots. No one has ever even noticed my shoes... though I want a pair of buckets. Because *I* like the look. I couldn't give a damn about authenticity when it comes to footwear. I play this game to have fun, and if you're not having fun, then what's the point?

To the authenticity nuts... I mean... Historically motivated pirates, huzzah for your efforts. It take alot of work to put together a *few* period items, much less a whole kit.

To those of you who are in it for pure fun and fantasy, huzzah! You enjoy having fun, and most of you get the whole point of the "game".

I float somewhere in between. So I catch it from both angles, as it were. I based my persona loosely on my family's actual history... and some of my stuff is accurate. Alot of the rest is there because it looks good.

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

Hey Foxe, the whole thing about the public and what they expect...

I agree with you whole heartedly.

I was trying to make a point to Hurricane. It was some of the "humor" that he said HE was trying to make in one of his posts.

Hurricane keeps asking me why I am so "vicious in my attacks". I don't see anything I've said as vicious or attacks ( with the unintentional exception of the way you took the wanker comment I made in another topic).

However watching Hurricane make comments to me on and on about things like medication for depression/ anxiety (which some people don't find funny I'm sure) is quite entertaining. So, as long as he feels that HE's the only right one about all this...I'll be right here to give him crap right back. Until his head explodes that is. (there Hurricane, ya happy? vicious enough? )

I've been saying all along that I agree with you Foxe, there's not one "right" way of having fun playing pirate (maybe a historically correct way) but as you said, not there's not just one way.

And Capt'n MacNamara... glad you're enjoying the sideshow.

[hurricane]

Sorry Ace, got an ex-wife. No one can be vicious enough here to match that. She's a gold medalist in the event.

--- Hurricane

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Now its seems like i got to apologize for posting these days.... I just got back to this thread, and I usually start reading from where i left off (or last posted). Then I think some, and chew my cud.... and then post my freakin opinions.

so, for those that feel that things that were said "two days ago" are off topic now and we don't need to go back, just scroll down and skip my posts.

The Harbor Mastor said

Levis have been popular since 1880 . Imagine that.,you could be a cowboy ...,you could wear them in 1920 and people might think you were Clyde Barrow or., in the same white T shirt and levis in 57 and be James Dean or in San Pueblo as Danny Partridge in 72., and I see mis guided children wearin them today., tsk.,tsk.,they just dont know fashion.,Damn!.

Whats your point? Yes, levis have been around over one hundred years. So have a lot of things.

The "rub" comes (using your levi analogy) when someone is trying to (or claiming to) portray a cowboy of circa 1875 and wears a pair of modern 501 jeans.

Now to some of you, they are the same, but to others, they are totally different jeans. Even their retro 1873 line is not like the original pair. I could list some of the discrepancies, but you probably don't care and I am tired of doing everyone elses homework.

100 years is a lot of time to change, tweak, and modify, all in the name of fashion. Its true for 1873-1973 and it was true from 1673-1773.

Capt Bo

I had thought to have found a different path than that which I'd been on. Ahh but reality strikes fast & hard once more. I see that the authenticity police have come well in advance of my arrival. Truly sad it is to think there be no place left to lighten up and enjoy the company of like minded souls.

Well you are not the only multi period, multi decade of experience re-enactor to saddle up to this bar.... so we will scoot down and make you some room.

But you can't be so naive to believe that this is the ONE re-enacting period where there aren't those that try to base their imrpession on historical facts and those that base their impression on fantasy?

Really????

Every period, if it has more than three people doing it, has different levels of acceptance and different guiding principals. Its alive and well in pre-roman re-enacting all the way up to those that do Vietnam living history.

The interesting phenomena is that different re-enacting periods seem to get the refugees from other periods. When I was doin' WW2, from time to time, we would get an influx of Civil War re-enactors who were tired of being pushed toward authenticity and for some reason they didn't think it existed in WW2 (WW1 re-enactors were known to be authenticity hard-asses so they didn't go there).

InWW2, there are lots of groups that don't push authenticity, so some found homes but they were really dissapointed that there were factual and fantasy types there too.

So don't be too discuraged mate, becuase the piracy tent is big enough for everyone. We will continue to discuss the minutia of historical representation in an open forum, and you will hear the ocasional sizzling sounds of "pirate sacred cow" myths on the Webber of authenticty, but don't take it too hard or feel unwelcome.

Besides, if we are not tying this all to some historical context, wouldn't we be better off gluing on our vulcan ears and going to the trek conventions?

GoF

[JoshuaRed]

sizzling of "pirate sacred cow" myths on the Webber of authenticty

That is classic, you made my day GOF! How hot would a Weber have to get to melt earrings?

[kass]

Besides, if we are not tying this all to some historical context, wouldn't we be better off gluing on our vulcan ears and going to the trek conventions?

Oh my God, Greg! Now who's being naive? Have you ever been to a Trek convention, darling? Those people will quote the "word of Rodenberry" to you, chapter and verse. And God forbid if you wear elf ears and pretend to be Vulcan because they're a totally different shape and not appropriate blah blah blah...

You wanna meet authenticists? Them's is some authenticists, mate. Ain't no competiting with them! W're frickin' amateurs...

[The Doctor]

OK, I hearby offer meself up to the pyre of Kass' authenticity magnifying glass.

My new kit will be based upon her patterns for breeches, shirt, waistcoat, and justacorps. But my hat will be leather (since I know how to care for leather versus tarred felt) and my boots will be suede bucket boots (because they're too bloody comfortable to eschew). Since I own horses, I'm calling special dispensation for wearing justacorps with bucket boots. If I could get away with it, I'd eschew Western garb and dress as a pyrate to show my half-Arab reiner. And believe me, I push the limits as hard as I possibly can. We'll see what unfolds from here....

[kass]

Hey, like I'm gonna complain if you base all your kit except hat and boots on my patterns? What am I, nuts?

I will pretend you just dismounted when I see you in your boots, Jack. And as a lady, what would I know about men's hats...

[Fox]

If I could get away with it, I'd eschew Western garb and dress as a pyrate to show my half-Arab reiner

A little while ago I started making myself a Barbary pirate outfit. I figured that a lot of the 17th century "Barbary" pirates were actually European anyway so it didn't matter that I'm not North African. Between the endless amount of explanation to others I was having to do, and the current political climate the idea kind of fell by the wayside. BUT, the kit is designed to be comfortable in hot weather, it's something completely different, and it looks cool. Go for it man!

Every period, if it has more than three people doing it, has different levels of acceptance and different guiding principals. Its alive and well in pre-roman re-enacting all the way up to those that do Vietnam living history.

Amen to that brother! The same is true of pretty much all of the good and bad points about re-enactment. Find me a period without the flippin politics and I'll be the most dedicated member!

and you will hear the ocasional sizzling sounds of "pirate sacred cow" myths on the Webber of authenticty

Hehe, you funny.

[Capt. Sterling]

Now here's where I disagree. This crap about "what the public expects" and "what the public recognises as being a pirate" is just a pile of steaming horse dung. The public genuinely don't "expect" anything - they are just impressed with what they get. They don't need boots or sashes or big skull earrings to recognise someone as a pirate. Hell, when I do non-pirate events as an authentic seamen, even in my 1805 gear I have to explain to people that I'm not a pirate! If the public walked into a camp full of guys in buckle shoes, petticoat breeches, short jackets, neck-cloths and long wooly hats they'd KNOW instantly that they were in a pirate camp - even if they weren't!

MOST of the public hasn't a clue! I captained a reenactment group of the 17th Light Dragoons, a rev war Brit calvary unit stationed in America. We have the famous skull and cross bones on our helmet plates... you would not believe HOW MANY PEOPLE thought we were pirates on horseback!!!!

As far as historical pirate versus hollywood... hey do as you please. I'm all for historical personally. What I find disturbing are them that are hollywood and say this is what a real pirate would have looked like! Why mislead the public? Why do so many hollwood types not state the truth that they are "hollywood" or simply state, plain and simple, that they are just out to have fun? Or even still, why not explain the myth behind your characterization? I've been part of a Wild West event that shows the difference to the public regarding Reel West versus Real West... it is wonderfully done. I think the public would love to know your kit is based on the "ideals" of fiction and film, not history. Nothing wrong with that...

Hector

[hurricane]

We just had the Neo Nazis parade through Orlando and it gave me an idea. No one questions their authenticity - the color of their brown shirts, the swastika armbands. I think I'm going to go Neo Pirate - then I can do my own interpretation and hold others to my standards.

Oh, guess those guys off Somalia and the Phillipines are already doing that Neo Pirate schtick. Crap!!!!

-- Hurricane

[HarborMaster]

Off the Philippines?., I thought the last escapde in that neighborhood was a coupla years back and it was in Indonesia? ., but speakin of Pirates I was reading that last one you posted off Mogudishu? thats pretty scary stuff. Hopefully International maritime laws can be changed a bit to better secure the self defense of a merchant. The way things are a merchant doesnt have anything ., that sux. Resort vessles and cruise vessles are defense less as well. I cant carry an assault weapon or I will be exiled out of country., I bet they (the pirates) would freak out though if they saw a hand reach above view of the whaling and hot matched a 1 1/2 inch bore of 75 .32 caliber balls 4 times in their broadside at 40 ft.!!! its the only defense we will have (we cant have guns there) ., tho its not an AK .,nor would it probably ever come into play.,tho a dozen baby sox with grapeshot will be onboard as its all I've got.

[hurricane]

Sorry, it was Malaysia. I have a nice photo of the gun toting gang over there - got me navigation a bit screwed up. Compass only points to Florida these days.

-- Hurricane

[Patrick Hand]

Oh my God, Greg! Now who's being naive? Have you ever been to a Trek convention,

But boots are period if you're Klingon..... BIG BOOTS with spikes..........

I was at an American Civil War reenactment (Co. A 14th. TENN. Vol. Inf. C.S.A.) we were marching out to battle, when a father pointed at us and told his son.... "that is the Mexican army... when they invaded the United States....." Hummm... I must have slept through that part of history class......

[Crimson Carl]

so on this whole fantasy vs history thing and how the bucket boots came from potc now the popularity mostlikely came from the movie yes but in designing a movie and coming up with costume parts there is reaserch to be involved in it....for example look at lord of the rings now that compleatly fantasy to the extream but for the weapons they used like the swords for example the were based and designed after a type of sword that was used in the medieval period....now is it compleatly unlikely that they did the same for the boots that were used in potc and now made at caboots.com but as young blood posted earlyer that picture they found off a ship wreak 1628 now i know thats not Golden age of pirates period but if some one in the 1600's had the idea then most likely they did in the GOP... but thats just how i look at things

[Gentleman of Fortune]

CC

We'll, maybe you give Hollywood more credit than I do for doing their homework. Personally, i think they get it wrong far more than they ever get it right.

They aren't in the buisness of getting it right though, they are in the buisness of entertaining, and thus, they use their poetic liscense to create fantasy stuff that appeals to the masses.

For those that try to base a pirate impression on what is historically accurate, they have to keep withing the bounderies of what is "known" to be correct.

The facts are that we have no evidence that sailors wore riding boots aboard ship during the GAoP... which was 60 years later than the 1628 Batavia wreck.

Also, I would like to add that the calvary boots pictured by P Pete have not been identified as found from the 1628 wreck. The only types of footwear recovered from the Batavia wreck are fragments of shoes.

P Pete got the pictures (aparently) from another forum member that lives in the Netherlands.... Which means that they could have come from a museum in Batavia... not the Batavia wreck.

By all means, wear boots if you your heart and feet tell you too. The reality is that there are very few (if any) pirate events that call for historically correct re-enactors.

But just be prepared to explain when asked, that there is no evidence for cavalry/riding boots being worn aboard ship during the period of 1690-1720.

GoF

[Patrick Hand]

there is no evidence for cavalry/riding boots being worn aboard ship during the period of 1690-1720.

DANG..... well there goes my Klingon reference.........

But boots are period if you're Klingon..... BIG BOOTS with spikes..........

[The Doctor]

Nah... Klingons are really just grumpy KISS fans.

[Patrick Hand]

If Klingon boots arn't period, then KISS boots arn't period for Pyrates either........

[Skull pyrate Carter]

But just be prepared to explain when asked, that there is no evidence for cavalry/riding boots being worn aboard ship during the period of 1690-1720.

GoF

First off, a faire is about enjoyment. So anyone that isn't enjoying themselves enough to waste my time with explaining how my outfit isn't up to their standards needs to bugger off and enjoy a pint.

I'm just sayin.

And I have gone thru about 1/2 of the 220 + posts in Petee's discussion on Boots. But I do find it odd that people were on ships with boots until 1690, then on Jan. 1st 1691 everyone decided to make a lasting new years resolution not to wear boots until 1721.

If we have proof of sailors/fisherman/pirates wearing boots until 1691, and we have proof that the same types of people were wearing said feetware after 1720, wouldn't it stand to reason that there is a good chance that they were worn during that period, but for one reason or another, it never was documented?

Imagine if someone in the future was to look at our artwork, movies, stories and come up with their conclusions of what life was like today. I'm sure they would state that our society had flying cars, all our wives looked like Jessica Simpson, and that Saddam had WMD...

Anyways... Just wanted to interject.

[HarborMaster]

Of all the Pirate re-enactors.,none have ships except The Royaliste and his krewe. Now to lay claim that yer a period pirate with no ship is pretty funny really whatcha think?

Where do you all do most of your acting?

On the land? not many seamen there aye? most were on ships yes?

What was on the land in the GAoP ?

well how about a Blacksmith?

A rich and well to do merchant with one helluva coat?

What of a horseman ? an inn keeper., a bartender.

Any one here honing their silver smithing skills?

Making period firearms? Matchlocks and the ,like.

Who here is skilled in navigation other than a compass or a Magellan GPS., I betcha all know about Map Quest tho dontcha?

Did these things not exist?.

Why does every re-enactor who sees some one dressed in a tricorn consider him a wanna be pirate?

Why is it everyone must be dressed in period poverty?

Let me guess., in the period they had no upper crust?

So if you are wearing 17th or 18th century clothing ., you shouldnt be allowed to go if its not sea worthy?., you cannot book passage? or attend the faire in 06 .

Lets be honest now?., how many here only re-enact on board a vessel?

Tell the truth., tell me when was the last time someone re-enacted cutting someones lips off and cookin them and then making them eat them in Silence of the lamb fashion?

When the last time someone here Re-Enacted stealing Enterprise or John Stennis? Anyone try to sac Seattle lately?

When is the last time anyone wore period correct clothing to the GAoP and came riding inta port on their own vessel and re-enacted taking a cruise ship over?

Thats what I thought

O.K. Then we can all agree 98% are landbased pirates around here yea?

And anybody land based could be a cobbler., and a cobller or a tailor wouldnt necessarily be dressed like a seaman., Even the Town Crier wasnt dressed as a seaman ., but somehow lived in the 17th century without being naked and he re-enacted the same place most here do., on the land.

Next pirate re-enactor I see with out a ship I will be consider'in just a 17th 18th century towns folk person and not a pirate . Kapish?

[Skull pyrate Carter]

dang it, that's what i meant to buy with my tax returns... a ship..

[Patrick Hand]

RATS… because I don’t live 24/7 on a ship, I can’t be a Pyrate reenactor…. So much for trying to make my gear more authentic….

Guess I just become a Blacksmith reenactor…..

Did Blacksmiths wear bucket boots ?

[HarborMaster]

I dont know Patrick I am still stuck at the armory Re-Enacting carriage building for the ship. And yes., I do mean that.

However you are a Buccaneer., and as far as Blacksmithing you are infact working on your own blade an sheath to boot

What the hell is a "Tax-Return" ?

[Biker]

. Now to lay claim that yer a period pirate with no ship is pretty funny really whatcha think?

Perhaps they are in the market????