Boots

[piratescave]

Or try at www.renboots.com

Nice boots, but I like the boots at caboots!

Here in the Netherlands is a store. They make custom-made boots!

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

"History be damned." Particularly if it doesn't fit into what I want to do.

I think I'm going to start doing WWII re-enactments and wear flip flops because Army boots just aren't me.

- Hurricane

OK.

See?

This is where I DO NOT see "fantasy" types being arrogant and rude the way that the "history" types are.

Yet all I hear is that the "play pirates" always hi-jack treads about historical crap. yet all I SEE is that when folks are having a discussion about finding a pair of boots BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM, the get this kind of response.

And no Hurricane" your analogy (snide remark) is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same thing.

At least those of us that want to wear "inapproriate" footwear do it because

A: it doesn't look stupid (unless you are a history type) and

B: it's more that likely what the rest of the modern world EXPECTS a "pirate" to wear.

You let me know when you do your WWII flip-flop thing so I can come laugh with the rest of the world at you.

Funny no one laughs at someone playing pirate wearing boots.

WTF is your problem? Grow up.

[hurricane]

Wow!

Someone needs to get a sense of humor or at least know what humor is.

My statement was made in a style known as Sardonic Wit, an ancient form of mocking something cynically, to the point of absurdity. It is a classic style of humor. One that has been used since the time of the Greeks, perhaps a little later. I would have to check my historical, oh, uh hysterical documents to see when Sardonic Wit first came into fashion.

I find your anger toward me as humorous as the rest of your rant against those who want to be educated instead of pepetuating lies.

Perhaps the LexaPro dosage needs to be upped a bit, eh?

-- Hurricane

[Fox]

I think I'm going to start doing WWII re-enactments and wear flip flops because Army boots just aren't me.

Few years ago a couple of us half heartedly started a Burma Road re-enactment group so that when we went to those REALLY hot events we could dress in sarongs, cotton shirts, and coolie hats. Funny thing is, nobody ever wanted to book us...

This is where I DO NOT see "fantasy" types being arrogant and rude the way that the "history" types are.

Yet all I hear is that the "play pirates" always hi-jack treads about historical crap.

See, this is why I have to laugh. In one sentence Ace claims that he's never arrogant and rude, and in the next he describes the hard work of others as "historical crap". You'd have to pay for comedy this good on cable...

[greenighs]

See, all this history stuff is well and good, but in my fantasy, he's wearing some serious tall boots. Black leather, folded over at the top. And drop front breeches. Now, if I had to be all historically accurate, that means he'd have to be twenty years older than he is in the fantasy now, or something like that, and that just doesn't work for me. Buckly shoes and stockings just don't get this gal tied to the mast, my friends.

So, I'm gonna stick to the boots for this one.

Now, for my own kit, I'm gonna go for rope sandals until I've developed enough skills and history to justify shoes. After all, a beginner sailor didn't blow his first bit of pay on fancy stuff, but acquired it over time, I'm sure.

[Fox]

Now, if I had to be all historically accurate, that means he'd have to be twenty years older than he is in the fantasy now, or something like that,

Who would, and why?

Now, for my own kit, I'm gonna go for rope sandals until I've developed enough skills and history to justify shoes. After all, a beginner sailor didn't blow his first bit of pay on fancy stuff, but acquired it over time, I'm sure.

No, but unless you're starting from being a baby you probably would have owned some shoes before you became a sailor...

[greenighs]

Well, I suppose so. Here I'm thinking warmer climates like the West Indies, and not being in the land owning class or a merchant, so I wouldn't necessarily be wearing shoes usually. But I would have had to start out somewhere in Europe, being caucasian as I am ... damn, and here I thought I'd have a while before I had to plunk down a wad o' cash on uncomfortable straight-lasted shoes. :)

[greenighs]

Oh, and "he" is the pirate in my fantasy. But I suppose I could just readjust the time period so it takes place before the GAoP, so he could leave the boots on ...

Forgive me, I'm tired, and my mind wanders when I've been working too hard.

[Fox]

If you don't wanna buy shoes that's a different matter, just you were talking about having to "justify" them, so I gave you some justification. For the record, most people owned shoes, not just the wealthy.

Also, straight lasted shoes shouldn't be any more uncomfortable than any other pair of new shoes. If they really are uncomfortable then it's because they don't fit. People wore straights for the better part of half a millenium - they wouldn't have done that if they'd had a major fundamental flaw like being inherently uncomfortable! I've got about 5 pairs of straights and they're all lovely and comfy, even the stiff ones.

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

See, this is why I have to laugh. In one sentence Ace claims that he's never arrogant and rude, and in the next he describes the hard work of others as "historical crap". You'd have to pay for comedy this good on cable...

Hold it there Foxe. I never said I wasn't arrogant and rude!

Wow, you have no idea.

And yeah, I keep calling it crap. I do that because somehow it's ok for some to be "humorously cynical" blah, blah, blah, and yet if someone makes a post and mentions an opinion that something is a nice pirate ___ (fill in the blank), they get a myriad of this type of comment from that side of the room.

I think most of these posts about boots have been pretty well balanced. Going back and forth with various reason why some don't think they are appropriate and some posting why they like wearing them anyway.

Then. Along comes Hurricane with his comments that could have gone with out being made EASILY.

Sorry. That's crap. I could care less whether someone is wearing boots or shoes or nothing. But there is no reason for the historical types to keep up with the ridicule of those who don't feel like being historically accurate.

Why can't you just get over it? Not everyone wants to play history. Some want to have fun (and look cool in big boots) doing it.

It really seems that it's the historical ones with the big chips on the shoulders.

Why? Is it because the majority of the public looks at a pirate in boots and thinks "WOW! That's a pirate!" then looks at someone wearing buckle shoes and thinks "What a shame, that pirate probably couldn't afford good boots"?

See? I told you I was rude. Unfortunately it's probably true about the public. And I do think it's a shame. But...there it is.

[hurricane]

Sorry, Ace. Didn't mean to upset ol' Jack, uh, Ace.

In 22 years no one has asked me why I have buckled shoes instead of boots. Even in Port Royal , they knew we were pirates without boots - in fact - they recognized us as pirate in civvies. Funny, isn't it.

90% of what I do as a pirate is indeed fantasy. But that doesn't stop me from separating Hollywood fiction from fact. And the people don't get bored. As I speak I'm listening to a two hour performance we did here with an orchestra. We managed to erase fiction by providing historical fact and received a standing ovation from a paying crowd. Wow! Perhaps the folks you enterain aren't as smart as those in one of the smallest communities in Florida. They didn't even ask why I was wearing buckled shoes. What were they thinking?

I again repeat that I don't get why you're so vicious in your attacks, just because I can see both sides. I'm sure you would take umbrage if one of us poked holes in your Jack Sparrow kit which you obviously put a lot of work into. So why the double standard, or to keep the genre correct, why the double edged sword?

Eh?

-- Hurricane

[Fox]

I DO NOT see "fantasy" types being arrogant and rude

Sorry, I assumed you were including yourself in that statement, my mistake. However, there's no mistake that when you used the term "historical crap" you weren't referring to Hurricane's comments, you were referring to historical discussion.

I typed out a great long response to the middle section of your post, but I've just deleted it. I really can't be arsed, it frankly isn't that important. I don't, and never have had a problem with Hollywood pirates. I know you don't believe that but it's true.

Why? Is it because the majority of the public looks at a pirate in boots and thinks "WOW! That's a pirate!" then looks at someone wearing buckle shoes and thinks "What a shame, that pirate probably couldn't afford good boots"?

See? I told you I was rude. Unfortunately it's probably true about the public. And I do think it's a shame. But...there it is.

Now here's where I disagree. This crap about "what the public expects" and "what the public recognises as being a pirate" is just a pile of steaming horse dung. The public genuinely don't "expect" anything - they are just impressed with what they get. They don't need boots or sashes or big skull earrings to recognise someone as a pirate. Hell, when I do non-pirate events as an authentic seamen, even in my 1805 gear I have to explain to people that I'm not a pirate! If the public walked into a camp full of guys in buckle shoes, petticoat breeches, short jackets, neck-cloths and long wooly hats they'd KNOW instantly that they were in a pirate camp - even if they weren't!

If you wanna go down the Hollywood route then more power to you and I'm sure you'll have great fun doing it, but it's "not the only way"!

[HarborMaster]

Levis have been popular since 1880 . Imagine that.,you could be a cowboy ...,you could wear them in 1920 and people might think you were Clyde Barrow or., in the same white T shirt and levis in 57 and be James Dean or in San Pueblo as Danny Partridge in 72., and I see mis guided children wearin them today., tsk.,tsk.,they just dont know fashion.,Damn!., my whole life is a mess now because of this., I just dont know if I am gonna make it to the Washington Rennaisance Faire.,or cruise the Lady Washington this year.,you know it would be wrong to use both kits for the same event. Maybe I will just wear the levis and the baseball cap and go as 100 years period correct Levis? get me?., levis been around 100 years., so were many shirts., how long has this "POEAT SHIRT" we heard so much about been around...., a long time .

Its come to a point its getting stupid.

As an individual Its not my place to tell anyone what THEY ARE INTO and whatever THEY are doing bothers me. If a Re-enactor chooses the period correct thing cool., if someone else lightens it up a bit., who really cares., and what business is it of eithers ., this is not educational anymore., its all BS and has been for some time., No you cant all control the way its going to be., get over it.

Personally I am doing what I do and I am not throwing away what I have to satisfy the likes of anyone here. Those photos of the two men with the floggers in red tights and his buddy was a great way to demoralize in order to expand your point. Thats about like me saying it isnt 1680 stupid.,get real your not a pirate., ever stole a ship or killed for proffit?., or any other historical Pirate factual deeds., of course not.

So infact the bottom line is ., This is ALL a fantasy game., for all of us., including myself.,, its just too bad it has to be made into such a bummer. Anyone here ever think of expanding on this topico to their shrink., as thegood Dr. collects your money and you leave., their goona be shaking their heads thinking what a bunch of idiots. while they are making Cessna payments.,or what ever they are into. Get me again?

Its a release., a little therapy., to get out of your hum-drum lifes reality and into some form of recreation you enjoy. This is a great hobby., some take it to differant levels., Some collect OLD firearms and are NOT re-enactors., others are re-enactors and cant afford a real pistol., others want to just flirt.,big deal., Cant people rise above it and enjoy your hobby and take that to whatever level you desire., and thats good enough . We all have differant levels of what we want from this.,what we expect., and what we are willing to put into it., and you know ., their are many that think what we do makes no sense at all., they just wanna pay their bills.

We should all feel lucky we can afford to enjoy any of this even a little.,cause there are many less fortunate.

[JoshuaRed]

Take it from me - straight lasted shoes are comfy!

So don't let that myth about straight-lasted shoes deter ya from getting 'em - they are as comfy as the biz-casual shoes I wear to work everyday.

[hurricane]

Actually, some of us do make a good portion of living from this. It is not a hobby. It is a lifestyle and livelihood as well as our love.

No disrespect to the hobbyists. But some of us do prefer to have discussions about the finer points of piracy rather than hopping in the hot tub, playing word association games and obsessing about characters from a movie.

No one forces anyone here to read a post. Or agree with it or disagree with it. I think it's that Free Country, 1st Amendment thing we hold so dearly.

As Voltaire once said, "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

-- Hurricane

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Yesterday was a good day for this child. Today began as well. I had thought to have found a different path than that which I'd been on. Ahh but reality strikes fast & hard once more. I see that the authenticity police have come well in advance of my arrival. Truly sad it is to think there be no place left to lighten up and enjoy the company of like minded souls.

I've traveled thru all ports of the popular history re-enactor era's in the past twenty years, and there's always been those who destroy the feelings of others so's they can here themselves talk so smart. I stand fast by my staement that we as a species, have made amazing advances in math, science, medicine and technology, but as a species we are as morally and socially bankrupt as ever a neandrethal was.

I'm wishin right now that I'd not been reading this thread at all... but it's gone too late fer that now.

[JoshuaRed]

Bo I love your tag. Awesome!

As to yesterday....Ky-Mani Marley fan by any chance?

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Sorry sir, no I've not known this name, but am of open mind in most matters. Please enlighten me as to whom you speak of. Learning all I can is my life mission. And thankee fer the compliment on the tag. I claim this original to me-self. Never heard it from another.

Capt. Bo

[HarborMaster]

Oh., no I definitely agree Hurricane. And I understand about the money. I actually have 6 figures invested into my own Cannon collection .,tropical beach and personal coral reef. Trust me when I say I have as much invested into my own piratical fun as anyone., altho many here would feel I am doing it wrong I am sure. . . and thats fine., let them do theirs their way.

I guess poking fun at others just isnt fun for me., Flaming others isnt my bag either ( I dont mean you.,I havent seen you flame anyone) I came to appreciate this as a hobby because for me I have but one job currently and it is not pirate in nature., thats coming. I hope to be into my Piratical themed resort .,scuba diving ., see thats not period either. The idea of it isnt period. But in todays world its fun. and I like that. Fun., cause I dont get any until my goals are met. The period for me now is 2006. And will remain so for 3 more year., then after that ., time wont matter for me.,That my friend is freedom.

I see this as a freedom thing.,and I appreciate both sides., and cant be critical., and have come to take others who are as annoying. My Fault.

And yes Freedom is bliss., priceless too. I am just saying we all have our own reasons.,and it seems to be thread after thread about period correctness., with the flaming of the coats to the ongoing boot debate. There is no debate however ..., really that came and went.

(Side note) I dont go into the word things or hot tub or play flirty flirt on

the pub I am not a bottom feeder . Actually I visit here to try to learn something and also if I can share something

[Swifty Morgan]

Capt. Bo aye mate

Ahh but reality strikes fast & hard once more. I see that the authenticity police have come well in advance of my arrival.

It is like that here better get use to it!!!!

Swifty

[Pirate Petee]

I don't see what everyone’s problem is here. I get along with both sides, if there are sides, there shouldn't be. We all dig pirates. Totally agree with what you said earlier Harbor Master. Me being an artist I can deal with a little bit of corrective criticism and that’s what I take it as. The only difference between an amateur and a professional is the pro gets paid. If you get paid for playing or acting or educating, cool more power to ya. If ya don’t that’s cool too. WE ALL DIG PIRATES.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

I've been exposed to it in every era, and mind you all that I've always kept to autheticity myself. My kits always in order and I do juried events as well as the more laid back ones too. (which I enjoy Soooo much more)

My biggest problem is the name callin and the button countin. In my humble oppinion, that's just plain goin too far. Don't expect I'll ever get used to that. I've settled in to the 1740- 1790 period, and can inter change clothing items to move from pre F&I to the post RevWar era's without much trouble. In doing historical educational events it IS important ot portay your charachter as acurately as you know how. But if anyone is suggesting the general public gives a rodents rear how many buttons were on John Lockes frock vs. how many were on Thomas Jeffersons weskit, I say with confidence that you are mistaken. More important to deliver factual information than count stitches in the seams.

It's better to HELP someone along the way than to SEND them away I say. Ther's just no need in offending others over this, as it only6 creates un-necessary divisions, and this is just bad buisiness. Iknow that I'm waisting my time on this subject as human nature cannot be changed by reason. That is proven every day in all walks of life. I won't give up though, because it is history that I love above all else in my pursuits.

I try to get along with everyone that makes a return effort, and have given away more than I have myself to help others move to a more accurate portrayal. That is where I take gratification from. Knowing I've been part of the solution, and not the problem.

Capt. Bo

[greenighs]

Well, I don't get along with anybody. The play pirates get on my nerves and the authentics give me a headache. I don't like any of you. In fact, I think I don't even like Pirates. I think I'm in the wrong hobby. I should get into this.

OF COURSE I'm not serious.

[kass]

Green Eyes, you're a dork! And I mean that in the nicest possible way!

I don't like you either. Have a beer!

[kass]

Like Petee said, I don't see the big deal. We all dig pirates. I like to think I get along with both sides. I mean, just because I want to stitch count on my stuff doesn't mean I'd EVER do it with anyone else's kit. You know?

It's just a game with different pieces. We all have this game that we play -- the pieces we have to buy or make or find that will make our kit "perfect". To the historical people, it's based on stuff found in a shipwreck or in a period painting. To the fantasy or Hollywood people, it's based on stuff in a movie or a book or a character they created themselves. We both dress up to pretend we're someone else on the weekends -- pro or not. Same game. Different pieces. That's really the only difference. Neither is better or worse in the grand scheme of things.

I won't stand for being called uptight or judgemental or a nazi though.

I think it's all bloody brilliant! Rock on, friends!

And if any of you think I'm judging you, you couldn't be further from the truth.