Patrick Hand Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 I'm making a 1706 slops contract jacket.... and need 14 brass buttons.... I looked on Jas. Townsends page, and they sell them for $1.00 each... does anyone know other sources ? I know there is a company outta Florida that sells brass buttons on E-Bay,(I think it was about $14.00 for 100) but they are not period. I am looking for Period buttlons....... Also... the ticking waistcoat (next project) needs 17 "black" buttons..... Does anyone know if these were matal that was painted, or what they would have been, and of course, where to get some.........
Tudor MercWench Smith Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 Well, the buttons I bought when I was making my frock coat aren't EXACTLY period . . . they look it though. I got them from an Ebay store called Villa Novella that sells only SCA approved buttons. So, accurate looking to say the least, but I don't know if they'd even have the style of button you are looking for either. But it's worth a gander I say. They have nice stuff.
Patrick Hand Posted January 16, 2006 Author Posted January 16, 2006 only SCA approved buttons I'll check them out..... but the SCA is not exactly noted for thier authentisity..... I know there are some cast brass buttons that are made in India, that are almost like the ones shown on the Spannish Colonial site.....
Gentleman of Fortune Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Pat I am looking for some authentic brass buttons as well for my ASC jacket. In my opinion, they should be like the pewter ones here... except brass But I don't think anyone is making them like that. I also don't like the modern shiny pewter. Now, I am not a pewter expert, but period pewter had lead in it and modern pewter doesn't. Does anyone know if historical pewter was all nice and silver/shiny when new? GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
blackjohn Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Wow, you are going to make me dredge up old memories... I used to cast my own lead miniatures. As a kid I helped my dad cast fishing lures. I'd say yes, lead can be shiny after being cast, but I don't remember it staying shiny for long. Fwiw, I have a little sack full of lead buttons (for a British RevWar unit) and those are dull (and that sack is freakin' heavy!). My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
Patrick Hand Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 they should be like the pewter ones here... except brass I haven't checked out MercenaryWench's sujestion yet.... but I have seen some that were made in India that were just like the pewter ones, but brass... Thats what I'm looking for.... Does anyone know if historical pewter was all nice and silver/shiny when new? I thought that pewter buttons were a "Poormans" copy of silver buttons..... so I'm guessing that they would want them nice and shiny....
blackjohn Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Does anyone know if historical pewter was all nice and silver/shiny when new? From some random website about lead... (Anglo-Saxon lead; L. plumbum) Long known, mentioned in Exodus. the alchemists believed lead to be the oldest metal and associated with the planet Saturn. Native lead occurs in nature, but it is rare. Lead is obtained chiefly from galena (PbS) by a roasting process. Anglesite, cerussite, and minim are other common lead minerals. Lead is a bluish-white metal of bright luster, is very soft, highly malleable, ductile, and a poor conductor of electricity. It is very resistant to corrosion; lead pipes bearing the insignia of Roman emperors, used as drains from the baths, are still in service. It is used in containers for corrosive liquids (such as sulfuric acid) and may be toughened by the addition of a small percentage of antimony or other metals. Natural lead is a mixture of four stable isotopes: 204Pb (1.48%), 206Pb (23.6%), 207Pb (22.6%), and 208Pb (52.3%). Lead isotopes are the end products of each of the three series of naturally occurring radioactive elements: 206Pb for the uranium series, 207Pb for the actinium series, and 208Pb for the thorium series. Twenty seven other isotopes of lead, all of which are radioactive, are recognized. Its alloys include solder, type metal, and various antifriction metals. Great quantities of lead, both as the metal and as the dioxide, are used in storage batteries. Much metal also goes into cable covering, plumbing, ammunition, and in the manufacture of lead tetraethyl. The metal is very effective as a sound absorber, is used as a radiation shield around X-ray equipment and nuclear reactors, and is used to absorb vibration. White lead, the basic carbonate, sublimed white lead, chrome yellow, and other lead compounds are used extensively in paints, although in recent years the use of lead in paints has been drastically curtailed to eliminate or reduce health hazards. Lead oxide is used in producing fine "crystal glass" and "flint glass" of a high index of refraction for achromatic lenses. The nitrate and the acetate are soluble salts. Lead salts such as lead arsenate have been used as insecticides, but their use in recent years has been practically eliminated in favor of less harmful organic compounds. Care must be used in handling lead as it is a cumulative poison. Environmental concerns with lead poisoning has resulted in a national program to eliminate the lead in gasoline. So I think it is safe to say period pewter or lead buttons could be shiny. Mmmm... cumulative poison... when I think about all the lead I've handled over the years... My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
Fox Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Henceforth I shall be making all my buttons from cheese. It's cheaper than brass, less poisonous than lead and historically documentable (see Jib's food thread) Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Patrick Hand Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 I shall be making all my buttons from cheese. Yah... but unfortunately.... the 1706 Slops contract didn't call for cheese buttons..... So I'm back to looking up the ones cast in India.......... Or just getting the ones from Jas. Townsend.......
Fox Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 They could be replacements? Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Patrick Hand Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Well ... I could say that I ate the brass ones.....Because they were softer and taisted better......
Gentleman of Fortune Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Pat Let me know if you find an Indian source for those brass ones. I have a "small" collection of period buttons (16th-19th centuries) and have seriously been considering sending some off to the Chineese (or Indians) to copy. If this has already been done, that will save a lot of time and effort. GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
Capt. Sterling Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Does anyone know if historical pewter was all nice and silver/shiny when new?GoF I don't know if historical pewter was all nice and shiny but I have worked with pewter that contains lead and if polished will shine but takes elbow grease! Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Hey would the hand wrought brass buttons at Wooden Hamlet do? Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
BattChief Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Check with Bradley of the Fox, Oshkosh WI or G.Gedney Godwin, pricey, but he has most types. Check flea markets, etc for bottles of buttons. River pearl are good, leather, bone. For weskit, look for black leather or bone. wood toggles work as well. Da Chief
Gentleman of Fortune Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 The Admiralty Slops Contract (ASC) of 1706 called for brass buttons. While other types of buttons may be found on period clothing, Pat is trying to find some brass buttons that meet the description of the ASC and follow period construction guidelines. SO..... Putting my picky-picky hat on....... The ones from wooded hamlet (if you were reffering to THESE ) For my taste, they are a little large. There smallest domed button is 7/8". I would feel a little more comfortable with a button somewhere between 5/8ths and 3/4 inch. Also, the domed shaped and the wire shank are not necessarily later, but that style seems to be more prevelent post 1750 and certainly during the last quarter of the 18th century. There are some GREAT buttons pictures for recoverd 1715 shipwrecks HERE As an example, from the site about is this button (which I would love to have reproduced) I have a few original buttons... most in pewter. I will try to take some photos this weekend and post them here to compare. GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
Patrick Hand Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 The ones that I'm looking for...(made in India) had a smaller shank to them, and unfortunatly were very crudly cast, so I'd have to do some filework befor using them.... but they were realy inexpensive..... So far, I've only found some that are too modern.... will spend some more time and look again this afternoon......
Patrick Hand Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 aaaargh.... two hours and all I've found is junk..... I looked for "brass Buttons" and "metal Buttons".... had better results just looking for pictures then going to the page.... Ok I did find these... at http://www.woodedhamlet.com/buttons_clasps...rass_butns.html They are 3/4 inch and $0 .95 so they are closer to what I want than what Jas. Townson sells... I did find this page... on 18th Centruy button shanks.... http://www.tias.com/articles/buttons/archi...2/articles.html I'll try again latter..... but right now I'm too peaved to figure out another way to look up cheap brass buttons cast in India.......
Gentleman of Fortune Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Pat.... do you have a picture of the "crude" ones that you did find? original ones can be pretty crude too. The button bytes site has some good info. Unfortunately, they describe buttons with terms like "18th Century" which, of course is a 100 year span. Most of the ones they show are really 1750+ (though still 18th C, are out of our period). Tombac buttons became really popular around the American Revolution (and they have a lot of them on that site). I am interested in solving this puzzle as well (finding brass buttons) so let us know what you find!. GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
Patrick Hand Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 I saw the "crude" buttons about 10 years ago at an S.C.A. event, the vender had a bunch of brass stuff from India.... I thought I'd be able to find sort of the same on the internet.... but didn't have any luck. I'm thinking of maybe making my owm.... a brass disk, with copper loop silver soldered on the back.... but it might be eaiser just to buy them for $0.95.....
Patrick Hand Posted February 7, 2006 Author Posted February 7, 2006 I think I've figured out a source for brass buttons...... Next time I get to the fabric store, I'm going to check the brass buttons. The white metal buttons that I have now, are cast in one piece, hopefull the brass one are the same, and not just pot metal that is brass plated.... I'll take a file with me, and see if I can remove the design that is cast on the front of the button. If it works, they will be almost the same as the ones fron the Spanish site...... OK... the shank won't be quite as large, but they should work.....
Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 Wow Pat, good work! Can't wait to see them! GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
Patrick Hand Posted February 25, 2006 Author Posted February 25, 2006 Well that Idea didn't work..... I finaly got some brass buttons for a mascot that I was worknig on, and had one extra to see what it was made from if I filed off the surface.... I had hoped that they were brass ... but they are only cheap pot metal that is plated. I also had the chance to check in a fabric store ... but the buttons they had were all the same. RATS.... and it sounded like such a good idea if it had worked...... I think I will just order the brass with copper shank buttons..... interestingly enough... they are only about 10 cents more than the ones that I would have had to file....
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