Whips

[Patrick Hand]

ffergil,.. I did a search for "Pagi-paguiis", and your page came up.... at first I was kinda joking about the S&M .... but then went and looked at your page again..... it is very interesting......

[John Maddox Roberts]

Mediterranean galleys employed rowers who were encouraged with whips. Unlike the movies, these were not bullwhips which would cut the rower's backs and impair their efficiency, but the "nerf de boeuf," to use the French term - or "bull's pizzle" to use the English. It was a dried bull's penis, about two feet long and looking like a rather twisted walking cane. Slightly flexible, it was the rubber truncheon of its day. A skilled man could knock another unconscious with one and they were sometimes used by police as billy clubs. Victorian writers refered to them by the euphemism "sinews."

[Fox]

There's quite an interesting and unusual view of an 18thC sea-going whip in Hogarth's Idle Prentice turn'd away and sent to sea:

The most obvious thing about it is that it's SHORT. Using the argument that pistols would get in the way but we know they used them, therefore the same must hold true of whips is poppycock. When curled up or whatever one does with a whip it might not be much bigger than a pistol, but in use a pistol or blunderbuss remains small, while a whip (at least of the kind you seem to be talking about) is long and relatively uncontrollable. There's a BIG difference.

Please don't take offence at this, but to me the attitude of "I've got the evidence I need but I'm not going to share it for these reasons" is like those kids at school: "I do know, I just don't want to tell you"

[John Maddox Roberts]

Hey, just found a picture of the bull's pizzle on that ecstagony site. Look it up under "pizzle" or "verajo" (Spanish name). You never know what you'll find around here.

[Lady Seahawke]

Ok, I happened to hop online this evening and saw the post above.

In regard to:

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Quote:

The most obvious thing about it is that it's SHORT. Using the argument that pistols would get in the way but we know they used them, therefore the same must hold true of whips is poppycock. When curled up or whatever one does with a whip it might not be much bigger than a pistol, but in use a pistol or blunderbuss remains small, while a whip (at least of the kind you seem to be talking about) is long and relatively uncontrollable. There's a BIG difference.

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Excusie, but didn't I say that they come in all sizes. I never said it had to be an 8 footer...Didn't I say they come in sizes from 2-3 footers all the way up. In order to be used as described, it would need to be on the smaller rather then the larger. So, a 3 to 6 footer is what I am talking about.

But then again, it would take skill to use. So it seems the position here is that those back then wouldn't have the skill nor the inclination. suit yourself if that is what you want.

And as someone in another thread has been stating, if'n they be found in a certain locale then why wouldn't they take up and use items from that locale. I.e the improbability of the stingray tail whip is no, but the idea of using a bull's penis is ok. gezzzzshhh.

:lol:

in regard to the other...In order for me to give all the documentation, I would need to go dig through all my books of the period. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LARGE MY PERSONAL LIBRARY IS... is it important enough to have you believe for me to do that. since I have more then a few dozens boxes blocking some of them...and with my back in the shape it is in...NO nope nada....no way in hell,

Now as I can get to them, we may pay a return visit to this subject. However, since you don't know me, and don't know, as a professor at a local college found out and announced one evening..."Trust me, if **** says she has the information, she has the information. "...to which, the next night I gave the verification another student was asking for...But, I digress...anyway, I have it. I can't get to it... and although, I know it is there, since I can't site it...I will pull back from the discussion. Simple as that. It is not that I won't share...it is a simple case of I am NOT going to injure my back further just to prove something to someone. end of story.

I busted out laughing seeing the advertisements at the top of the page. What do I see????? HUMMM???? Two advertisments for well crafted....WHIPS...WHIPS AND MORE WHIPS. aH I have been such a bad influence ...soon all the rogues twill be carry'n em and what tis a honest (isn't that a misnomer) pirate to do????

Hope everyone has a Grand New Year....Blessings to you all!

PS..giggle don't you love the pattern I have going with the

Hey, what type of artwork do you think can be made with them? Should we have a thread going to see who can come up with the best design? Guess not cause I was told I had too many of them in my message...bummer

[Lady Seahawke]

Real bummer...I had to delete most of my before it would post.

But, they looked so pretty....Oh well, such is life.

[silverhearted maggie]

I used to be able to snap leaves off trees with a whip. I'm outta practice, I also used to throw the rolled newspaper up in the air and snap the plastic off in mid-air.

All part of my mis-spent youth, wait that was 5 years ago!

[Patrick Hand]

Hey someone has to be a jerk... so why the heck can't it be me....

Lady seahawk..........

One ... do you call yourself a historic re-enactor..... an authentic.... or are you a "play" Pyrate....so we can figure this out.....

and two... are you talking about a cat of nine tails or a colt... or a 9 foot long bull whip....

Maybe we are missing something here... so some definitions may help....

[Fox]

Excusie, but didn't I say that they come in all sizes. I never said it had to be an 8 footer...Didn't I say they come in sizes from 2-3 footers all the way up.

All the way up? That's where the problem lies.

But then again, it would take skill to use.  So it seems the position here is that those back then wouldn't have the skill nor the inclination.  suit yourself if that is what you want. 

Now I certainly never said that, BUT, I can't for the life of me think when, where or why a pirate would have learned to use a long whip (the short ones don't really take a lot of skill do they?). I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter. How would a pirate have learned to use a whip and why?

And as someone in another thread has been stating, if'n they be found in a certain locale then why wouldn't they take up and use items from that locale.  I.e the improbability of the stingray tail whip is no, but the idea of using a bull's penis is ok.  gezzzzshhh.

Bottom line for all discussions like this one: Do yoiu have one solitary piece of evidence for any pirate of the GAoP using a whip as a weapon? (As opposed to using a short cat or whatever for punishment)

in regard to the other...In order for me to give all the documentation, I would need to go dig through all my books of the period.  YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LARGE MY PERSONAL LIBRARY IS...  is it important enough to have you believe for me to do that. since I have more then a few dozens boxes blocking some of them...and with my back in the shape it is in...NO nope nada....no way in hell,

Quite right, I have no idea how large your personal library is. For all I know it might have 10,000 books on the history of whips in it. On the other hand they might all be Ladybird books. In either case, I certainly wouldn't wish you to injure yourself just to prove a point

Now as I can get to them, we may pay a return visit to this subject.  However, since you don't know me, and don't know, as a professor at a local college found out and announced one evening..."Trust me, if **** says she has the information, she has the information. "

Maybe it's me, but I wouldn't trust AJP Taylor without sources to support his contentions

I look forward to when you can get to your library and bring some evidence to bear. Incidentally, I too have an enormous private library at my fingertips, and one of the finest naval libraries in existence just round the corner. If you can recall any details about the book(s) in which this information might be found I'd be happy to look it up on your behalf.

By the way, have you noticed the new "Women on Ships" thread?

[ffergil]

ffergil,.. I did a search for "Pagi-paguiis", and your page came up.... at first I was kinda joking about the S&M .... but then went and looked at your page again..... it is very interesting......

Scourge of the seas. An appropriate name for both of us...

I´m glad you found our site intersting. We just play "teacher-pupil" or "Master-slave" as you play pirates. And some of us take it seriously, while other jusy play, just like you...

Different ways of enacting our fantasies...

[Fox]

I thought it might be rather jolly to bring some actual GAoP era evidence into this here discussion...

Ned Ward on the boatswain (1706):

His badge of power is his bamboo, which, though tip'd with simple twine thread, is venerated like the battoon of a General; and truly it does soldier like execution, having maul'd more White-coats, than ever fell at the Battle of Blenheim.

This small stick of his, has wonderful virtues in it, and seems little inferior to the Rod of Moses, of miraculous Memory; it has cured more of the Scurvy, than the Doctor, and made many a Cripple take up his bed and walk; sometimes it makes the lame to skip, and run up the Shrowds like a Monkey; but what's most wonderful, it makes heavy-ars'd Fellows tumble up from below, contrary to the Tendency of all heavy bodies, which tumble downward

...

And yet this same Tool of his, is but a mere Sugar-candy-stick, in Comparison to his Cat of Nine-tails. Cerberus is not more dreadful to the dead, than this Cat is to the living; but indeed she's never let loose, but by Order of the Commander, who many a Time slashes a man out of the same Itch of Fancy, that he cats a woman.