Lets make Authentic Hand Sewn 18th C Shirts

[Capt Grey]

I kin open it up if ye wants, GoF. I just wanted to avoid all the "I'm interested" posts that don't add anything to the class.

As the instructor, ye can post whatever ye likes afore the class begins.

EDIT: Okay, I changed the warning to read that anything posted that doesn't directly pertain to the class will be deleted.

[blackjohn]

Seriously, I feel like the period accurate bloody Martha bleedin' Stewart! HELP!!! I'm living my own nightmares!!!

Someone once said, "be careful what you wish for..."

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Thanks Captn' Grey... I think we can just scrub it out at the end of October... I hadn't really thought about what you were trying to avoid... sorry!

Let the games begin!

GoF

[Mick MacAnselan]

Anyone know where to get linen thread? JAS-Townsend is out of stock. TIA.

[Old Buccaneer]

:An excellent idea. A good pirate can always use a clean shirt. Wenches appreciate that sort of thing. ph34r:

Black Jack Butler

[Gentleman of Fortune]

More sources for fabric and thread

Here is a good resourse... check out their fabrics too. I love the historical "descriptions" though they mostly sell to the rev war and f & i crowd

http://wmboothdraper.com/Thread/thread_main.htm

http://www.threadneedlestreet.com/linthrd.htm

http://www.periodfabric.com/default.htm

good luck

[Mick MacAnselan]

GoF, Thanks for the links.

GoF/Kass/anyone,

I got some linen and it's fairly 'stiff'. Should I wash it before we start the project, or after it's done? TIA.

[Slopmaker Cripps]

Wash it before hand if you're planning to wash the shirt in the future. Otherwise, when you go to wash/dry it, the fabric will shrink, and sometimes as my shipmate found out, rip out the seams. Always pre-wash the material before you cut it.

Cheers,

Adam C., Slop-man

[blackjohn]

I'd advise washing it. However, before you do, run a stitch along both cut ends to keep fraying to a minimum. Then be prepared to iron the hell out of it. It's been awhile since I've messed with linin, but I seem to recall ironing it whether I've run it though a dryer, or let it line dry.

[Mick MacAnselan]

I'd advise washing it.  However, before you do, run a stitch along both cut ends to keep fraying to a minimum.  Then be prepared to iron the hell out of it.  It's been awhile since I've messed with linin, but I seem to recall ironing it whether I've run it though a dryer, or let it line dry.

Thanks! Maybe a dumb question, but here goes... If I pre-wash the linen material, and then use (not pre-washed) linen thread, am I going to have a problem with shrinking linen thread, thus messing puckering or otherwise messing up the seams? TIA.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

There is a debate about whether to wash or not, depending on what results you want for your end product...

There used to be a wide difference in quality of threads used to make fabrics. In order to guarantee that the fabrics would not shrink after construction, it was necessary to pre-launder them so they would shrink before cutting and sewing. Now most fabrics are made with mercerized cottons and the amount of shrinkage has literally shrunk! (bad pun, right?)

Some people prefer not to pre-wash because of the crispness of the fabrics. During the final process at the mill, sizing and finish are added to give the fabric body and less stretch. If a fabric "feels" good on the bolt when you touch it (not too stiff or limp), it has a good "hand." Sometimes fabrics with a lower thread count have more sizing and finish added to give them enough body that so they will feel good. When in doubt, hold the fabric up to the light and see if the threads are tightly woven and good quality (higher thread count), or if they appear more like cheesecloth (lower thread count).

One of the reasons for not pre-laundering the fabrics is that washing removes these finishes. Some people prefer to let the finishes stabilize the cross-grain and bias edges. This is particularly true for wall quilts that are not washed as frequently as bed quilts.

The rationale for pre-laundering is that it helps eliminate shrinkage and removes the finishes. Some people also like a soft "hand" or feel to the cloth after it has been washed and dried. Other people are allergic to the chemicals used in the finishes and sizing and must launder their fabrics before using them.

Sometimes a project is to look "old," even though new fabrics are used. In this instance, do not pre-launder the fabrics. Make the quilt and then wash and dry it. During the laundering process, the fabrics and/or batting will shrink and cause mild puckering along the stitches creating an old-fashioned appearance.

The sizing is not appied to the thread, so don't worry about unwashed threads.

Kudos for getting your stuff ready!

GoF

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Update:

We are going to push back this class a bit. Kass's move is over, but her DSL is not hooked up and she found out she might not be able to get it in her area anyway.

I think it is important for those of you who do not have a lot of hand sewing experience to get the basics with Kass before we start the Shirt project.

Lets start the Hand Sewing on Nov 1st and the Shirt on the 10th of November.

For those of you who haven't gathered there materials, you got an extra week!

GoF

[Mad Matt]

I'll be drunker 'n a skunk on 10 November. It's the Marine Corps birthday! Hmmm...maybe I can try me hand at sewin' with a gauntlet on! Not correct for pirates, but better than endin' up lookin' like Pinhead!

[Bonnie Red Weasel]

i've got to admit - i just now saw this thread, and i am sooooooooo excited!!! I may be a little behind getting started, for lack of money to buy supplies, but I'll work to catch up as quickly as possible.

[Bonnie Red Weasel]

Okay, i was just looking up online sources for fabric and thread, and i've got a question. What size linen thread should I use, and should it be waxed? What sort of needle(s) should I have ready?

[Patrick Hand]

What's the latest guess on when the Hand Sewing and shirt making will begin?

I will be taking the chunks of linen with me to PiP (still holding my breath about going tho......) and do some hand sewing there...... Have to finish sewing two chunks of the cloth together (it's only 24" wide) to make the Body of the shirt......

I figure I'd be throwing my 2cents in on the project...... I'm making a slightly different shirt for the Buccaneer Project...... so I'd be showing a variation on the shirt........

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I think we are waiting for the dust to settle around Kass's move and now the Holidays.

I would trudge on with the shirt project myself, but since Kass has offered to do a period sewing techniques class prior, and can even be coerced to run the shirt class, I am more than willing to wait for her!

Also, this could be a dry run for a Coat making class. Kass's company is coming out with some Justaucorps patterns in the first quarter of 06 and I can't wait to see them!

GoF

[Capt Grey]

Thanks for the update, Gentleman.

[Mick MacAnselan]

Okay, i was just looking up online sources for fabric and thread, and i've got a question.  What size linen thread should I use, and should it be waxed?  What sort of needle(s) should I have ready?

Okay, I'm sort of bumping Bonnie's questions to the top. I have the same questions myself. I know Kass isn't around right now, but does anyone know the answers? Anyone? GoF?

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Sorry folks..... missed the question

I would say 35/2 for heavy linen/canvas/hemp, 60/2 for medium weight fabrics and maybe 100/2 for fine linen handkerchief weight cloth.

Usually "waxed" linen thread is used for sewing leather.

That being said, you still will need to "wax" your thread to make it easier to sew. Any sewing store (even walmart in their sewing section) should have a little round of beeswax. You pull your thread over this to keep it from bunching up as you sew.

Did that answer your question?

By the way, if you need a source

http://www.woodedhamlet.com/threads_pins_n...wing_thread.htm

GoF

[Mick MacAnselan]

Thanks GoF,

Do you know where 50/3 or 80/3 (both of which I have on hand) fall in comparison to the */2 sizes you mentioned? I remember there's something tricky about comparing /2 to /3, but I can't remember what. TIA!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Mick

The number before the slash symbol (/) refers to the linen thread size. The number after the slash symbol refers to the number of ply that make up the thread. That is, how many strands are twisted together.

Since most sewing today is done with cotton, synthetic, or a cotton covered synthetic, linen thread is almost exclusively used nowadays for embroidery.

But since we are re-creating 18th century garmnets, linen thread is what we need.

When searching for threads, we can usually find two types of thread; a 2 ply (Swedish linen and Belgian linen) or 3 ply thread (Londonderry linen).

I would think that either is ok for our purposes, though a 3 ply thread will generally be stronger than a 2 ply.

If you have medium weight linen for your shirt, the 50/3 should be ok.

Hope this helps.

GoF

[Patrick Hand]

couldn't wait for the class to start, so I started hand sewing a Buccaneer shirt.... I will post pictures and drawings of the difference when the class starts.....

Anyway.... I was wondering about the fit of the shirt at the armseye.... and how the sleeves drop over the shoulder (on my last shirt, I think I made the shoulder part just a little too long, so the shoulder seam fall too far down....not "that" much.... but the sleeves slightly "bind" when I'm not wearing a jacket....)

So I looked a a picture that Foxe posted....

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/lawfoundation/im...rth_sea_550.jpg

Check out the guy rowing....... I think I'm correct that they shouldn't go to far over the shoulder......

Kass or GoF.... we might want to address the fit of the shirt before we start....

[kass]

I can't say why the shoulder seam of this shirt sits on this guy in the picture's shoulder, but that was certainly not the norm. Shirts in this period were made according to the width of the fabric, not the size of the wearer. You bought fabric wide enough to make a shirt big enough, and this sometimes meant it was very big indeed. But since no one wore the shirt without at least a waistcoat over it at all times (except in bed), this isn't a problem.

Of all the shirts I've examined or read about, none were made with the seam sitting perfectly on the shoulder. The shoulder seam should sit about four inches or more down your arm.

So Patrick, your sleeves are probably fine. And that "binding" is period appropriate, believe it or not. Besides, when would a gentleman such as yourself wear your shirt without a jacket? Surely not in public...

Shirts made with shoulder seams in the perfect modern position came into use in the 19th century. It stops the binding, but the construction wastes fabric.

Kass

[Gentleman of Fortune]

What she said....

Some times its really hard to get over our modern interpretation/ideas about what we should look like.

I am a pretty big dude myself, and when I first started wearing my shirt for pyracy, I kept thinking, "whoaaa this is way too big".

But historically its right on the money.

I think (I'll have to check with "Textiles in America" but I think that one of the common widths for textiles (linen) was 22"?

Also, In an earlier post/thread Kass mention that she has seen originals that are made from "pieced" together fabric.

I would like a little more info on this as I have several pieces of blue checkered linen (that are over 100 years old) that i would like to piece together for my shirt!

GoF